The Jedi purge continued years after Yoda went into exile:
Apparently its still going on.
The Jedi purge continued years after Yoda went into exile:
The worst failure in Star Wars is Disney letting directors write fricking scripts one movie at a time in a trilogy. They had no road map as to where the story was going unless you call ripping off OT the road map.
Winging the script writing ina trilogy might be the worst thing Disney has done.
Lucas was "winging it" too. Key storylines and plots were created ,and changed, right up until filming and editing. If it's a problem now with the ST, why don't people think it was a problem back in the 80's when Lucas was making **** up as he went? Sure, he was the same dude writing all three parts (I get that), but that doesn't change the fact that there was no set plan in how the story would unfold and end. He was inventing so much of the story between films, and dramatically changing key plot elements as he went. How is that so different?
What was it about ROTJ that you guys are seeing that would have led to Luke planning to casually murder his nephew and then running away to hide from his responsibilities for ever after?
Why bother explaining thou? You don’t like it , others do...
Since posting this question, you followed it up by posting that you'd like a serious answer. I wasn't the one you were addressing earlier today, but if you legitimately want a serious answer, I want to provide you with the best and most thorough one that I can. But first: do you not understand how loaded your question is with your own subjective interpretations that many people fundamentally disagree with? It would be like me (who hates the PT) asking PT fans: "What was it about the OT that you guys are seeing that would have suggested Anakin/Vader was just a whiny crybaby and lovesick loser who casually killed his wife for no apparent reason?" It might be a fair question to me, but it's so full of my own pre-conceived personal interpretations (that many PT fans would disagree with), that it wouldn't get a constructive response. If you set up the question with your own beliefs, and pose it to people who disagree with your interpretation, you're not often going to get a serious answer.
But, since I appreciate you for starting this thread after the first one got shut down, I'll give you my serious answer (that you won't like or agree with). As has been pointed out already, Luke did not plan to "casually murder his nephew." There's nothing casual about Luke's conflict in that moment. That's actually a key part of the story: Luke couldn't bring himself to end the life of a member of his family, even though he'd just seen that overwhelming darkness and corruption had already taken over his soul. Sound familiar? Luke saw a Ben Solo who was lost to the dark side - and any logical person would have understood that killing him in that hut would likely prevent another Vader from rising to commit evil atrocities all over the galaxy.
ROTJ taught us that Luke can be tempted to respond impulsively like that, but he reigns himself in before crossing the dark line. Luke is very much an impulsive character prone to emotional swings, and always has been.
And Luke didn't run away to hide. He wasn't afraid of getting beaten; and he wasn't being a coward. He felt responsible for Kylo. He felt frustrated that all of the good intentions of the Jedi (and himself) would all be for nothing (AGAIN!) because within their very own ranks, another Vader was being formed (and with Skywalker bloodlines . . . AGAIN!). If Luke hadn't developed Ben's Force abilities, would Ben have become Kylo? Probably not. So, why is it so hard for you to see that Luke would feel traumatized that instead of letting his sister raise her son, he took Ben into the Jedi religion . . . and led to his nephew's ruin? Why is it unreasonable to have Luke feel like the best way to end this cycle of Jedi/Sith is to pull out the roots and end it all by ending the Jedi?
Luke might even feel that his father could have just lived a quiet life on Tatooine if not taken to be trained as a Jedi. And harnessing/strengthening his Force abilities in Jedi training led to him being powerful enough to be a devastating tool of the Sith. And now Luke, in his hubris, ignored the dangers of it happening again to his nephew - as it had his father. Luke is left devastated because he himself had now "failed" like Obi-Wan had; but with Kylo in the place of Anakin. Same result; nothing learned, nothing avoided.
Much like Kenobi to Anakin, Luke would be to Kylo the root of his torment (insert Anakin's "I HATE YOU!!" scream here). That's something no one seems to bring up in these conversations about why Luke wouldn't think he could redeem his nephew as he strongly believed he could redeem his father. Because Luke wasn't a target of his father's rage and revenge; Kenobi was. Luke didn't "fail" with Anakin; Kenobi was the mentor who couldn't save him. So, Luke would be the least likely to be able to redeem Kylo, just as Kenobi would have been the least likely to redeem Anakin/Vader. A main theme of TLJ is about recognizing flaws and failures, and finding new (better) ways to move forward by learning from them.
I've gone back and forth on the "winging it" approach to writing this trilogy. In general, I think it's a bad idea not to have a basic structure in place for how the whole story should play out. But, I also see the benefit of letting different people push the story in their own direction because it prevents something like the prequels where one person dominates the story and can't see his own flaws in time to fix them.
And for anyone who might want to suggest that the OT was all mapped out and pre-planned, please understand that it wasn't. We all know that Lucas didn't plan to have Leia as Luke's sister when he was writing ESB and having her kiss him like that (and more romance between the two in deleted scenes). In fact, ROTJ went in a TON of different directions - even right up until filming - because there was no actual set plan! And not just due to Lucas changing the ending because he was tired of making SW films. There's a great book titled, "The Making of Star Wars: The Return of the Jedi" that partly chronicles some of this.
But you don't even have to read the book (though it'd be worth it). There's an article that details some parts from the book, including how much "winging it" was going on during the writing and production of ROTJ. I'm begging any critics of the ST for making things up as they go to please read this. Please!! You'll see that what's happening with the ST is no less cohesive or well-planned than what was happening more than 35 years ago with the OT. Here's the link:
https://io9.gizmodo.com/10-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-star-wars-ret-1383276948/1388764126
Lucas was "winging it" too. Key storylines and plots were created ,and changed, right up until filming and editing. If it's a problem now with the ST, why don't people think it was a problem back in the 80's when Lucas was making **** up as he went? Sure, he was the same dude writing all three parts (I get that), but that doesn't change the fact that there was no set plan in how the story would unfold and end. He was inventing so much of the story between films, and dramatically changing key plot elements as he went. How is that so different?
I probably agree with more of that than you'd expect. And I appreciate the response. It's hard not to ask "loaded" questions seeing as so much of this is based on personal opinions and beliefs, your views also so it should be a fair expectation to expect a serious answer from those who have demonstrated a willing to do so. It wasn't my intention to trap anybody with that question. I'm genuinely trying to understand how people thought of Luke at the end of ROTJ as turning into the pessimistic hermit we saw in TLJ. I am a fan of the prequels. And while Anakins performance has grown on me in recent years (see this video for some of the reasons... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL_PDgczHJc ) I did for many years consider Hayden the weak link. I'll also fully admit that much of the dialogue is not of a high standard. They are far from perfect as movies, in fact in many ways they could be much better but ultimately they are enjoyable to me and do fit in with the Star Wars universe. Although by the time he killed his wife, he arguably wasn't Anakin any longer, he was Vader. At the very least he was very confused and not fully in control of himself so it makes sense. Although I never did quite figure out why she actually died other than continuity....
I probably should have left out the word casually, it makes light of the situation and took your response in a wildly different direction focusing on that misused word in my question. I retract it.
I probably should have left out the word casually, it makes light of the situation and took your response in a wildly different direction focusing on that misused word in my question. I retract it. But while I agree with you entirely that Luke has always been very impulsive and emotional. Part of what we saw in the OT is him starting to realise that himself and being able to control it more. I have no doubt that he still would have had emotional outbursts as he aged, nobody is perfect. But planing to kill your nephew whom technically hasn't done anything wrong at that point, even going so far as igniting his saber as he sleeps is an extreme, surely you'll concede that? It just doesn't seem fitting with Luke's character, it does him a disservice even if he ultimately didn't act on it. The movie made little attempt to show that Luke even tried to help Kylo first. Something we'd probably all expect Luke to do.
Ultimately it comes down to whether people enjoyed this movie or not. Those who did are clearly interpreting it in a different manner to those who didn't. This is fine, but it's very clear that this movie has very much split the fan base more than any before it, and damaged the franchise in doing so going on the Solo box office (I haven't seen that yet either as I disliked TLJ so much) TLJ could likely have been done in a manner which pleased more people while being different. And it would have left you not having to justify and interpret so much of what we saw. I like when movies are brave enough to be different, RO did this and worked. But TLJ was different at the expense of established characters etc which it didn't have to be. And the reaction of Disney after it all blanket accusing people who didn't enjoy it of being sexist and racist etc rather than taking the criticism on board probably did just as much damage as the script itself.
The guy who was willing to die to redeem mass murderer Darth Vader, the Dark Lord of the Sith. He didn't even think about it first. His first reaction was to murder his sister's son. RJ's compulsion to subvert expectations is what that was.
I think a lot of people have simply been having a harder time seeing the connections because the OT came first
It’s definitely deliberate when it involves extea time/expense animating a robotic hand.
I never gave it much thought beyond the fact that replacing the skin would be vanity and Luke is beyond it.
Same goes for some of the elements of the PT people have a problem with. Anakin building Threepio seems weird if you watch the OT first, but is totally fine if the episodes are viewed in sequential order.
Plus, this was a nice touch (though it works better if you watch the OT first!)
Ok...
The one thing that keeps bugging me, almost more than anything else, and never seems to get mentioned in any of the rants anywhere for/against "The Last Jedi" is this...
Are we going to find out how Luke's lightsaber took 38 years to get from Bespin to Maz Kanata's secret dungeon or not????
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