Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[klwn]

They're the overseers.

Probably true lore experts who all learned under George Lucas.

Oh wait no that's just Dave Filoni.

 

[devilof76]

There isn't any lore, except for what's in the films. Johnson did a phenomenal job of extrapolating from that and expanding the story.

 

[klwn]

There isn't any lore, except for what's in the films.

Yeah that must be the approach at Lucasfilm right now.

The lore has been/is expanded on in books (all kinds, from novels to comic books to visual guides), Clone Wars, Rebels, the canon story mode in the latest Battlefront... All of that put together constitutes the huge canon of Star Wars, and is extremely intricate.
You can say that YOU only care about what's in the films, but that's another approach. That's just being a casual fan and that's totally your right. But don't say the only lore is in the movies when that's obviously not true.

 

[devilof76]

Fan fiction churned out in reams to keep you spending money.

 

[Asta]

There isn't any lore, except for what's in the films. Johnson did a phenomenal job of extrapolating from that and expanding the story.

It's a new and growing lore though, which includes the cartoons, such as The Clone Wars and Rebels, and the new novels and comics.

A way of drawing a line in the sand and largely starting from fresh.

But the way I look at is the way you can watch a James Bond film. So many different actors playing the same role over 55 years, and each within it's own contemporary time period. They can't all be the same man, but they all form part of the same series about the same character.

It's the same with Star Wars Canon and Star Wars Legends. You can lump them all together as stories about the same characters, but told from different perspectives. It doesn't matter if Lucasfilm no longer recognises the authenticy of a large proportion of those stories, because they can be as authentic as your imagination wants them to be.

Way back it was Artoo who was relaying these stories from his memory banks. But do you always trust the reliability of the narrator of a tale? There was an Agatha Christie story with an unreliable narrator - they turned out to be the murderer.

I've never felt enslaved to canon, but instead took what I wanted from Star Wars, and discarded what I didn't. I can see the ST as following on from some of the post-ROTJ EU novels, and somewhere out there precouppied with other things there is a Jacen, Jaina and Anakin who wanted nothing to do with their brother, Ben.

By that token Johnson's extrapolation is therefore not completely disregarding the past. But things might get more complicated (i.e. more Bond like) if they started making films covering the period between the Battle of Endor and TFA that involve the OT heroes.

 

[devilof76]

I can see that, particularly since the OT heroes' story is complete, and what you'd really just end up with are formulaic episodes where everyone does what's expected of them. Having to resurrect genuinely new arcs for these characters would not have been necessary if Lucas had decided that Jedi wasn't the end. As it turns out, it was necessary and starting from their fully resolved positions at the end of 6 would have made them worthless (token) in the episodes as they stand now, 30 years later, and well beyond their heroic prime that could have been milked for cozy, escapist, familiarity.

That's not burning down the Star Wars dreams of graying boys. Those dreams were charred ruins ages ago (unless you took to the EU) when Lucas ended his saga. It's not betraying legacies. It's making something of them that actually resurrects the characters, where previously they had been rendered inert.

 

[klwn]

Fan fiction churned out in reams to keep you spending money.

I don't buy any of it, but I certainly try to keep up thanks to YouTube and the wiki. And obviously it can't be fan fiction if it's official canon. You being unaware of it doesn't make it any less valuable. Maybe you'll never know how Vader and Palpatine are fleshed out in the novel Lords of the Sith, but it's still a part of the story. In TLJ, they briefly show you a strange compass among Luke's belongings, that's explained in Battlefront.
The Star Wars universe is far more vast and fascinating than just what's in the movies. Just because a story/piece of information isn't in a movie doesn't make it uninteresting or unimportant for the appreciation and better understanding of the universe. It's all connected, or at least Lucasfilm is trying to keep it so.

 

[Asta]

I can see that, particularly since the OT heroes' story is complete, and what you'd really just end up with are formulaic episodes where everyone does what's expected of them. Having to resurrect genuinely new arcs for these characters would not have been necessary if Lucas had decided that Jedi wasn't the end. As it turns out, it was necessary and starting from their fully resolved positions at the end of 6 would have made them worthless (token) in the episodes as they stand now, 30 years later, and well beyond their heroic prime that could have been milked for cozy, escapist, familiarity.

That's not burning down the Star Wars dreams of graying boys. Those dreams were charred ruins ages ago (unless you took to the EU) when Lucas ended his saga. It's not betraying legacies. It's making something of them that actually resurrects the characters, where previously they had been rendered inert.

Yes, in TFA you have the death of the older Han. But he didn't die a bureaucrat or an ageing deskbound general in the New Republic. He was still leading the lifestyle of a rogue, so all those EU adventures post ROTJ are still valid. Just as I'll always see Brian Daley's trilogy as valid regardless where the Solo movie takes him.

The thing with calling the old EU 'Legends' rather than 'Myths' is that legends have the possibiity of being true. Lucasfilm can still draw from them. I think Thrawn entered their new canon.

In the ST even Luke's adventures had fallen into legend, and Rey wasn't sure they were true until Han confirmed them. The acceptance of a reality is largely reliant on your belief in the source relaying it.

 

[klwn]

The thing with calling the old EU 'Legends' rather than 'Myths' is that legends have the possibiity of being true. Lucasfilm can still draw from them. I think Thrawn entered their new canon.

Yes he is in Rebels (not really well used though) and is getting a second canon book.

 

[Asta]

Yes he is in Rebels (not really well used though) and is getting a second canon book.

I thought so.

So from Thrawn we'll likely see the Remnant of the Empire, and how it evolved into the First Order.

But the stories won't follow Heir to Empire etc word for word, but draw from the 'legends' of that period. That is, we'll see the story from a different narrator's viewpoint.


Since the ST I haven't been interested in keeping up the the new EU. I'll watch the films and read the Visual Dictionaries, and keep the memories I have of the older EU adventures.

 

[devilof76]

I don't buy any of it, but I certainly try to keep up thanks to YouTube and the wiki. And obviously it can't be fan fiction if it's official canon. You being unaware of it doesn't make it any less valuable. Maybe you'll never know how Vader and Palpatine are fleshed out in the novel Lords of the Sith, but it's still a part of the story. In TLJ, they briefly show you a strange compass among Luke's belongings, that's explained in Battlefront.
The Star Wars universe is far more vast and fascinating than just what's in the movies. Just because a story/piece of information isn't in a movie doesn't make it uninteresting or unimportant for the appreciation and better understanding of the universe. It's all connected, or at least Lucasfilm is trying to keep it so.

They're accents, their value to the story for any given viewer, notwithstanding.

And what makes you think I'm ignorant of any of it? I've been a Star Wars fan since I was 4, when I saw it in '79. I've seen all of the places it's gone, and I've seen Disney have the foresight to not bind themselves to whatever complications fans have decided they're bound to obey.

 

[devilof76]

The thing with calling the old EU 'Legends' rather than 'Myths' is that legends have the possibiity of being true. Lucasfilm can still draw from them. I think Thrawn entered their new canon.

In the ST even Luke's adventures had fallen into legend, and Rey wasn't sure they were true until Han confirmed them. The acceptance of a reality is largely reliant on your belief in the source relaying it.

That's clever. What this conversation is still boiling down to for me is that nothing in Luke's character in TLJ is out of character. I'm sure that reference hounds can come up with all kinds of details from 'Legend' which contradict that statement, but it doesn't contradict anything in the films. If there are tiers to the satellite media, they all defer to Ep.1-9.

 

[Asta]

That's clever. What this conversation is still boiling down to for me is that nothing in Luke's character in TLJ is out of character. I'm sure that reference hounds can come up with all kinds of details from 'Legend' which contradict that statement, but it doesn't contradict anything in the films. If there are tiers to the satellite media, they all defer to Ep.1-9.

I don't know how late the EU took Luke, but he did start training Jedi so nothing out of place there. Then he has this crisis of confidence, and while he might be a Jedi master he's still human and therefore susceptible to human failings, Failings are what the dark side plays on. But he avoided the latter by opting for self exile, and that's the point that got me to take TLJ more seriously (i.e., the Conradian outcast that I've mentioned a number of times).

 

[Lakhota]

George Lucas made Star Wars to bring us all together . LOOK LOOK! what Rian Johnson and KK has turned us into! We are the very thing Star Wars was meant not to be, this here is a perfect example why TLJ is a dumpster fire. We are hating each other like the Sith, resorting to lame ass memes. We together need to petition to get TLJ erased from the Jedi data banks, only together can we give Luke the movie he deserved!

 

[crows]

Interesting facts. The Lucasfilm Story Group didn't have a story planned for E8. No Rey backstory. No Snoke backstory. No Luke backstory. KK gave RJ free reign to do what he wanted.

6 out of 8 people in KK's Story Group are women, Kennedy said in an interview, adding that "I think it’s making a huge difference in the kind of stories we’re trying to tell".

No ****? Why should that make a difference at all if your primary goal is to make quality films?

The irony is that she's becoming a liability for feminism everywhere, just as Grace warned about. From the video: "It's now clear why Rey is a Mary Sue. It's clear why Holdo is a ****. It's clear why these movies have no structure, no direction, or entertainment value."

I cant believe this vid is not flagged or deleted... this vid is dangerous.

 

[Prime Clone]

There isn't any lore, except for what's in the films.

Since the reboot LFL has established its Story Group and the TV series and literature are all as canonical as the films.

And as noted above, anything from the old EU can be brought into the canon as directors and authors see fit.

 

[crows]

One of my hopes for episode 9 is that it would be cool if they bring up that gender is fluid and that there is no such thing as male or female but instead a spectrum of gender. It would be really neat if they make it canon that nobody is truly "male or female" but instead just can swim through the spectrum.
That would definitely shut up all this mary sue nonsense.

 

[Prime Clone]

As a prequel apologist, just sayin'...

Okay, that last one is a bit of a stretch, but it does bring me to my next point: while much of the Millennium Falcon action in the ST has been gratuitous fan service (reaching high farce with Chewie and the Porgs), it *was* great to finally see an escape pod in action!

 

[jye4ever]

Spoiler

 

[ArtDamage]

One of my hopes for episode 9 is that it would be cool if they bring up that gender is fluid and that there is no such thing as male or female but instead a spectrum of gender. It would be really neat if they make it canon that nobody is truly "male or female" but instead just can swim through the spectrum.
That would definitely shut up all this mary sue nonsense.