Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[klwn]

Would you say we need a broom?

 

[ebor]

Broom-boy FTFW! (oops...or broom girl, or broken-broom wielding multi/uni ethnic/trans/poly gender non specific human)

 

[morphosis]

You're half-right. She's mistakenly using the word brown to represent "non-white". Where I live, "Brown" is an acceptable term used to describe people of "middle-eastern" or "east-Indian" descent. Black, Asian and Aboriginal people wouldn't self-identify as "Brown". It'd be weird, if you called them that.

Second, the context with which she uses the term is racist, because she's advocating for rule by those identified as "diverse". This is exactly the problem with the SJW movement. It's nonsense. She honestly wants to live in a world ruled by non-white, non-male, non-heterosexual people. That's idiotic from the perspective of every single person throughout the ideological spectrum, left-to-right, who doesn't subscribe to identity politics. No one, outside of sociology and gender studies departments would take this sort of nonsense seriously. It's gibberish. However, it's gibberish that has now seeped its way into popular culture, shoe-horned into popular intellectual property via a corporation that has historically catered to different branches of moralism to make money.

Your completely putting words in her mouth. Were does she ever say she wants to live in a world ruled by non-white, non-male, non-heterosexual people?

Her article is celebrating the diversity of SW and pointing out that the age of the white men ruling needs to come to an end. Does that mean "all men" need to go? Of course not. She clearly loves Finn and Poe, and admired Luke for his sacrifice to save the Rebellion. In her last sentence she asks for them to take on non-heterosexual characters, but she isn't saying the world should be ruled by non-white, non-male, non-heterosexual people. She's just asking for the representation.

 

[morphosis]

This thread is spilling into subjects what this part of the forum is NOT about...

The future of this thread is likely heavy cleansing by a MOD.

I like healthy debate, but some of this should likely be moved to the 'Sandbox'

Personally i think its been a healthy debate. We haven't been at each other throats or name calling. I think its important to listen to each others sides. We are talking about the movie and this section is about the movie. The movies cover a lot of subjects of politics, culture, race, war etc etc...

If your not into talking about it, thats fine, but I don't think anyone is out of line.....yet.

although i do have to take off for the night. I am actually going to see TLJ for my 3rd viewing with my wife and friends. I do thank you all for this discussion. I hope we can all at least say as a group we are fans of the movies and toys. We all don't have to like the same things, but as a community here i try to respect you all.

have a good night.

 

[ShadowX81]

Your completely putting words in her mouth. Were does she ever say she wants to live in a world ruled by non-white, non-male, non-heterosexual people?

All over her blog.

 

[ebor]

Personally i think its been a healthy debate. We haven't been at each other throats or name calling. I think its important to listen to each others sides. We are talking about the movie and this section is about the movie. The movies cover a lot of subjects of politics, culture, race, war etc etc...

If your not into talking about it, thats fine, but I don't think anyone is out of line.....yet.

I can agree with much of what you say morphosis, however, once the topics of race, politics enter a debate the discussion will likely go off the rails. It happens most of the time on this forum.

 

[ShadowX81]

I can agree with much of what you say morphosis, however, once the topics of race, politics enter a debate the discussion will likely go off the rails. It happens most of the time on this forum.

That's the problem. These are very relevant discussions about the film, about elements that were deliberately in the film. And yet we aren't allowed to discuss them?

Its impossible to make a high profile film that deals with polarizing poltitical elements without inviting a discussion on them.

 

[jye4ever]

*reads the last 30 pages*

So this is the power of Disney Star Wars. Wow

As a ****ing white male myself, is it considered racist and/or sexist to not like The Last Jedi or the last couple of Disney Star Wars movies in general??

The reason I don't like the current protagonist isn't because she's a girl. I don't like her because she's written poorly and the chick that plays her can't act. People that defend the way she is written don't appear to be very intelligent. Of course she's a bland, one dimensional character with a grating posh accent. She is the epitome of a Mary Sue. Anyone that disagrees is in denial of a valid criticism. Forget all the comparisons between Luke and Rey, and even everything she does in TFA, just look at TLJ.

Look no further than the ending where she's is the gunner in the Millennium Falcon in the film's climax. Not only is she barking orders to Chewie, she shoots better than Luke, Han and Finn combined. Remember in Star Wars how Han and Luke in particular are struggling to shoot down 4 TIE Fighters? It takes them forever to take those things down and they're breaking in a sweat after it's all said in done. ****ing Luke was happy to take down ONE. Remember in the Force Awakens when Finn is fumbling at the controls? He's lucky to even fire the turret canons, let alone destroy a single TIE.

TLJ? She destroys dozens of them with ease while quipping "I like this" or whatever cutesy BS she says, I can't remember.

Like StarPuffs said, she's wish fulfillment: the character. Maybe she's something special to immature little girls, morphosis or weirdos like Guyver who is in it for the dolls (no offense Guyver, you know I love ya), but to the rest of us, she's boring. In two years or the TFA and TLJ story timeline, a mere week, she does and achieves more than any character in this franchise. She is an expert marksman with a blaster, she is an expert duelist and a better pilot than Poe. Her force abilities can be summed up as she had a vision, felt something, it awakened, but now she is a pro. She is stronger than Luke, Han, Obi-Wan and Anakin and owns Luke's lightsaber, the Millennium Falcon, R2-D2 and Chewbacca like they're god damn trophies or something. She sucks.

Luke was a whiny little weak ass *****, but atleast he grew throughout the trilogy as a character. The second installment usually has several defining moments for a character. In Empire, Luke ****s the bed in everything he does. He's brash, arrogant, he's an idiot. What happens to Luke in the second movie? He gets ****ed up in the first 2 mins, he can't recognize a Jedi Master right in front of his face, he fails his training, sees himself in the person he hates the most, fails to rescue his friends, gets bruised, battered and beaten, and oh yeah, he gets his ****ing hand lobbed off. To top it off, he finds out the father he never met, the man he idolized and was inspired to be like is really his arch nemesis and the wise elders he trusted lied to and manipulated him. This character is so defeated that he jumps off the gantry to certain death just to achieve some small victory.

Then we have our girl Rey Rey. She doesn't do a ****ing thing except inspire people. She bosses Luke around and tells him how it is, inspiring him to finally kill himself. Chewie is like her ****ing dog. Finn is infatuated with her. Yoda thinks she's the ****. Leia has taken a liken to her since day one despite being a cold hearted ***** to everyone she came into contact with since the series began. Poe fan girls over her and wants to bang her. Kylo Ren? She's going to ****ing "redeem" and inspire him onto the light side 100%. She's the hero, the Disney princess, through and through. In a movie about failure, all she does is win. She didn't even lose a limb, an eye ball, bladder control. Nadda. Oh boo hoo, you're lineage is **** and your parents were druggies who abandoned you. Welcome to the club kid, take a number

She's boring, she's mayonnaise, I don't like her. When this is all said and done, she'll be forgotten, just like this movie.

****ing Epic

I work very hard to get one of these treasures every few days lol

SJW not even mentioned once.

Great job you racist sexist bastard you.

 

[Wor-Gar]

DiFabs post

 

[klwn]

Luke was a whiny little weak ass *****, but atleast he grew throughout the trilogy as a character. The second installment usually has several defining moments for a character. In Empire, Luke ****s the bed in everything he does. He's brash, arrogant, he's an idiot. What happens to Luke in the second movie? He gets ****ed up in the first 2 mins, he can't recognize a Jedi Master right in front of his face, he fails his training, sees himself in the person he hates the most, fails to rescue his friends, gets bruised, battered and beaten, and oh yeah, he gets his ****ing hand lobbed off. To top it off, he finds out the father he never met, the man he idolized and was inspired to be like is really his arch nemesis and the wise elders he trusted lied to and manipulated him. This character is so defeated that he jumps off the gantry to certain death just to achieve some small victory.

Then we have our girl Rey Rey. She doesn't do a ****ing thing except inspire people. She bosses Luke around and tells him how it is, inspiring him to finally kill himself. Chewie is like her ****ing dog. Finn is infatuated with her. Yoda thinks she's the ****. Leia has taken a liken to her since day one despite being a cold hearted ***** to everyone she came into contact with since the series began. Poe fan girls over her and wants to bang her. Kylo Ren? She's going to ****ing "redeem" and inspire him onto the light side 100%. She's the hero, the Disney princess, through and through. In a movie about failure, all she does is win. She didn't even lose a limb, an eye ball, bladder control. Nadda. Oh boo hoo, you're lineage is **** and your parents were druggies who abandoned you. Welcome to the club kid, take a number

You can't argue against that. Or it just becomes pure denying of facts, and total hypocrisy.
The Rey character is so poorly built up compared to Luke, it gets depressing. It really wasn't that hard, it's been done right so many times without even looking at Star Wars. They really messed this up.

 

[Adolfo]

D I F A B I O destroys all non believers!!!

 

[EVILFACE]

*reads the last 30 pages*

So this is the power of Disney Star Wars. Wow

As a ****ing white male myself, is it considered racist and/or sexist to not like The Last Jedi or the last couple of Disney Star Wars movies in general??

The reason I don't like the current protagonist isn't because she's a girl. I don't like her because she's written poorly and the chick that plays her can't act. People that defend the way she is written don't appear to be very intelligent. Of course she's a bland, one dimensional character with a grating posh accent. She is the epitome of a Mary Sue. Anyone that disagrees is in denial of a valid criticism. Forget all the comparisons between Luke and Rey, and even everything she does in TFA, just look at TLJ.

Look no further than the ending where she's is the gunner in the Millennium Falcon in the film's climax. Not only is she barking orders to Chewie, she shoots better than Luke, Han and Finn combined. Remember in Star Wars how Han and Luke in particular are struggling to shoot down 4 TIE Fighters? It takes them forever to take those things down and they're breaking in a sweat after it's all said in done. ****ing Luke was happy to take down ONE. Remember in the Force Awakens when Finn is fumbling at the controls? He's lucky to even fire the turret canons, let alone destroy a single TIE.

TLJ? She destroys dozens of them with ease while quipping "I like this" or whatever cutesy BS she says, I can't remember.

Like StarPuffs said, she's wish fulfillment: the character. Maybe she's something special to immature little girls, morphosis or weirdos like Guyver who is in it for the dolls (no offense Guyver, you know I love ya), but to the rest of us, she's boring. In two years or the TFA and TLJ story timeline, a mere week, she does and achieves more than any character in this franchise. She is an expert marksman with a blaster, she is an expert duelist and a better pilot than Poe. Her force abilities can be summed up as she had a vision, felt something, it awakened, but now she is a pro. She is stronger than Luke, Han, Obi-Wan and Anakin and owns Luke's lightsaber, the Millennium Falcon, R2-D2 and Chewbacca like they're god damn trophies or something. She sucks.

Luke was a whiny little weak ass *****, but atleast he grew throughout the trilogy as a character. The second installment usually has several defining moments for a character. In Empire, Luke ****s the bed in everything he does. He's brash, arrogant, he's an idiot. What happens to Luke in the second movie? He gets ****ed up in the first 2 mins, he can't recognize a Jedi Master right in front of his face, he fails his training, sees himself in the person he hates the most, fails to rescue his friends, gets bruised, battered and beaten, and oh yeah, he gets his ****ing hand lobbed off. To top it off, he finds out the father he never met, the man he idolized and was inspired to be like is really his arch nemesis and the wise elders he trusted lied to and manipulated him. This character is so defeated that he jumps off the gantry to certain death just to achieve some small victory.

Then we have our girl Rey Rey. She doesn't do a ****ing thing except inspire people. She bosses Luke around and tells him how it is, inspiring him to finally kill himself. Chewie is like her ****ing dog. Finn is infatuated with her. Yoda thinks she's the ****. Leia has taken a liken to her since day one despite being a cold hearted ***** to everyone she came into contact with since the series began. Poe fan girls over her and wants to bang her. Kylo Ren? She's going to ****ing "redeem" and inspire him onto the light side 100%. She's the hero, the Disney princess, through and through. In a movie about failure, all she does is win. She didn't even lose a limb, an eye ball, bladder control. Nadda. Oh boo hoo, you're lineage is **** and your parents were druggies who abandoned you. Welcome to the club kid, take a number

She's boring, she's mayonnaise, I don't like her. When this is all said and done, she'll be forgotten, just like this movie.

 

[Autumn Thunder]

D I F A B I O destroys all non believers!!!

Well it's ****ing true. Although i did enjoy EP7, thought RO was boring though. (EP8 makes EP7 look like a masterpiece) I give JJ credit, he set all the pieces in place to have EP8 be a great ****ing movie. And Disney&CO. gave us ****!

I love seeing all the squirm articles pop up in my google feed. Lotta outlets defending the **** movie "despite the fan reviews" they say.
I knew they would pay for this, internet is too big in 2017. (And it's just the beginning mark my words)

You can literally tell which outlet has an agenda or is paid!

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

*reads the last 30 pages*

So this is the power of Disney Star Wars. Wow

As a ****ing white male myself, is it considered racist and/or sexist to not like The Last Jedi or the last couple of Disney Star Wars movies in general??

The reason I don't like the current protagonist isn't because she's a girl. I don't like her because she's written poorly and the chick that plays her can't act. People that defend the way she is written don't appear to be very intelligent. Of course she's a bland, one dimensional character with a grating posh accent. She is the epitome of a Mary Sue. Anyone that disagrees is in denial of a valid criticism. Forget all the comparisons between Luke and Rey, and even everything she does in TFA, just look at TLJ.

Look no further than the ending where she's is the gunner in the Millennium Falcon in the film's climax. Not only is she barking orders to Chewie, she shoots better than Luke, Han and Finn combined. Remember in Star Wars how Han and Luke in particular are struggling to shoot down 4 TIE Fighters? It takes them forever to take those things down and they're breaking in a sweat after it's all said in done. ****ing Luke was happy to take down ONE. Remember in the Force Awakens when Finn is fumbling at the controls? He's lucky to even fire the turret canons, let alone destroy a single TIE.

TLJ? She destroys dozens of them with ease while quipping "I like this" or whatever cutesy BS she says, I can't remember.

Like StarPuffs said, she's wish fulfillment: the character. Maybe she's something special to immature little girls, morphosis or weirdos like Guyver who is in it for the dolls (no offense Guyver, you know I love ya), but to the rest of us, she's boring. In two years or the TFA and TLJ story timeline, a mere week, she does and achieves more than any character in this franchise. She is an expert marksman with a blaster, she is an expert duelist and a better pilot than Poe. Her force abilities can be summed up as she had a vision, felt something, it awakened, but now she is a pro. She is stronger than Luke, Han, Obi-Wan and Anakin and owns Luke's lightsaber, the Millennium Falcon, R2-D2 and Chewbacca like they're god damn trophies or something. She sucks.

Luke was a whiny little weak ass *****, but atleast he grew throughout the trilogy as a character. The second installment usually has several defining moments for a character. In Empire, Luke ****s the bed in everything he does. He's brash, arrogant, he's an idiot. What happens to Luke in the second movie? He gets ****ed up in the first 2 mins, he can't recognize a Jedi Master right in front of his face, he fails his training, sees himself in the person he hates the most, fails to rescue his friends, gets bruised, battered and beaten, and oh yeah, he gets his ****ing hand lobbed off. To top it off, he finds out the father he never met, the man he idolized and was inspired to be like is really his arch nemesis and the wise elders he trusted lied to and manipulated him. This character is so defeated that he jumps off the gantry to certain death just to achieve some small victory.

Then we have our girl Rey Rey. She doesn't do a ****ing thing except inspire people. She bosses Luke around and tells him how it is, inspiring him to finally kill himself. Chewie is like her ****ing dog. Finn is infatuated with her. Yoda thinks she's the ****. Leia has taken a liken to her since day one despite being a cold hearted ***** to everyone she came into contact with since the series began. Poe fan girls over her and wants to bang her. Kylo Ren? She's going to ****ing "redeem" and inspire him onto the light side 100%. She's the hero, the Disney princess, through and through. In a movie about failure, all she does is win. She didn't even lose a limb, an eye ball, bladder control. Nadda. Oh boo hoo, you're lineage is **** and your parents were druggies who abandoned you. Welcome to the club kid, take a number

She's boring, she's mayonnaise, I don't like her. When this is all said and done, she'll be forgotten, just like this movie.

Rey inspired you to write all that.

 

[klwn]

Well it's ****ing true. Although i did enjoy EP7, thought RO was boring though. (EP8 makes EP7 look like a masterpiece) I give JJ credit, he set all the pieces in place to have EP8 be a great ****ing movie. And Disney&CO. gave us ****!

The idea to have (initially) three directors for the trilogy was really dumb, especially without a set-in-stone outline.
Can't say I'm the biggest JJ fan but damn, I wish he had done Episode VIII now...

 

[Autumn Thunder]

The idea to have (initially) three directors for the trilogy was really dumb, especially without a set-in-stone outline.
Can't say I'm the biggest JJ fan but damn, I wish he had done Episode VIII now...

Right! It would've been miles better that what we have received. I really am perplexed as to how Disney let this through.

 

[RIDDICK]

Wow, who hijacked Riddicks account?!
Someone calm almost reasonable and verging on positive is using his screen name!
Are the mods looking into this?

 

[Spazz]

Your completely putting words in her mouth. Were does she ever say she wants to live in a world ruled by non-white, non-male, non-heterosexual people?

Her article is celebrating the diversity of SW and pointing out that the age of the white men ruling needs to come to an end. Does that mean "all men" need to go? Of course not. She clearly loves Finn and Poe, and admired Luke for his sacrifice to save the Rebellion. In her last sentence she asks for them to take on non-heterosexual characters, but she isn't saying the world should be ruled by non-white, non-male, non-heterosexual people. She's just asking for the representation.

There are two responses to this.

1) She clearly states, "The Last Jedi has a clear message: The nearly all-white, overwhemingly male, privilege-based way of thinking that celebrates war culture and toxic masculinity and that created the First Order has to go, both in the larger world and as it’s internalized in our hearts and minds, and in its place will be something entirely new, created by diverse young people who are walking away from war culture, walking away from toxic masculinity, walking away from systems of privilege." Then, she states, "The future is brown, and female, and brilliant, and fierce, does not give even one single **** about the way things used to be."

She explicitly attributes a "way of thinking" to white, heterosexual men. In other words, she's presuming the content of one's character based on their skin color, sexual orientation and sex. Then she claims that the future is "brown and female". I agree with you, that the author doesn't specifically mean "brown" racially. She means "non-white". She's arguing that the future is "non-white and female". It will be shaped by, and therefore ruled by non-white women. You don't need degrees in political science or English literature to understand what she's saying, although I have both. This isn't complicated. She sees white, hetero men as being "Toxic" because "they", as an identifiable group have a typical "way of thinking". So the "non-white, non-male, non-hetero" way of thinking will be better.

2) How will it be better? Here's the punchline:

"What new society will they create? We don’t know. But we do know that old ways of thinking have failed us in every possible way."



No goal, no solution, and tons of platitudes about how objectively horrible society is. Blame white hetero men. Their system has failed you, and we'll fix it the moment we come up with a viable alternative. Yep. Keep waiting.

Has it failed you, though? Has science failed you? Has the competitive market elevated your standard of living? Has classical liberalism failed you in granting you the freedom to have this conversation, without fear that you'll be killed for saying the wrong thing? Did the enlightenment fail you?

"White male society has failed us in every possible way, and we're going to fix this problem... by seeking equality within the society white men created."

You're welcome.

 

[TaliBane]

Actual quotes from said article:

"The Last Jedi has a clear message: The nearly all-white, overwhemingly male, privilege-based way of thinking that celebrates war culture and toxic masculinity and that created the First Order has to go, both in the larger world and as it’s internalized in our hearts and minds, and in its place will be something entirely new, created by diverse young people who are walking away from war culture, walking away from toxic masculinity, walking away from systems of privilege."

"No matter how much power they accrue, no matter how many angry young white men they convince we are the enemy, the light still stands. The future is brown, and female, and brilliant, and fierce, does not give even one single **** about the way things used to be."

"Please attack cisheteronormativity in your next film."

View attachment 384693

View attachment 384696

"From a certain point of view..."

 

[Spazz]

"From a certain point of view..."

"I hope the next Star Wars attacks cardio, because it's a patriarchal construct. Fitness and nutrition are products of Toxic Masculinity."