Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[Khev]

TLJ has achieved the largest box office drop of all the Star Wars films, including the prequels. It's only a downward spiral from here, especially after people watch it multiple times on blu ray. They'll pick up on things that they didn't notice in the theater.

That's all false narrative silliness. I'm aware of videos perpetuating the myth but it gets no traction with those interested in reality. Sure studios never want a huge second weekend drop but it's a mathematical inevitability that the amount of the drop will be higher for films that earn more. The last Harry Potter had a similar drop and no one thought that that series ended on a low note. What I find more impressive is the surprising legs TLJ has exhibited *after* the drop, some days even matching TFA's earnings on its equivalent days of release! And it's still tracking above every other blockbuster short of TFA. Not exactly a franchise killing disaster.

 

[spindrift]

Happy New Year to all you crazy crazy people on here! You guys are the best! (really)

 

[jye4ever]

Rug pull.....nice analogy. SW was in need of a rug pull, it was too stale film after film.

Now after getting our attention, it’s vital they do something with it otherwise; it becomes everything folks complaining about.

Great point and while I agree you have to remember there are SW fans that are so hardcore devoted to the OT or Lucas that nothing Disney can create will ever be recognized as success so there’s no fixing the ST for them it was doomed to fail before it even started but I believe that group is the minority in the grand scheme of things.

You know the type already no matter what comes out if it’s modern it’s automatically no good.

Disney might not want fans like that they want fans that buy into everything but at a minimum they’ll at least get that groups opening weekend ticket purchases because not even they can resist going to see a new SW movie opening night because of the “event” status that comes with the brand yes even their black hearts are not immune to the power of SW. Better than nothing for Disney, right. A single ticket purchase is still a single ticket purchase at the end of the day even if the person buying it hates new SW.

Then you have a larger group that while are still hardcore devoted to OT they are more open to new SW that is not coming from Lucas but still remain highly skeptical nonetheless. Their hearts are only half black lol.

The way you can tell the 2 apart is with Rogue One which is a great testing device.

The former will hate all of RO and tear apart every aspect of it in comparison to the OT while the latter will enjoy many components from it while still recognizing the superiority of the OT although some might even feel a little embarrassed to admit they liked parts of it or maybe even doubt their own feelings.

Then you have the group that firmly believes that the PT > OT lol.

Disney lost the trust of the core ST fans, you have OT/PT/Lucas diehards who hate the ST which leaves Disney with the SW fans who remain open to new paths and the casual movie going public to sustain their growth.

SW is part of the cultural fabric that **** ain’t going nowhere it is here forever but they have their work cut out for them to unify all the splintered groups of fans now which is pretty close to impossible at this point.

 

[Khev]

Agreed jye, Disney doesn't care about the loudest whiners because they always buy tickets each and every year so that they know what to whine about, lol. But even Mark Hamill was all, "Wow this false narrative is too whiny, even for me, I'm out."

 

[JAWS]

I don’t know if that’s such a bad thing.

The rage over this cinematic rug pull from TFA to TLJ not only has been super entertaining to watch but the rage is actually giving the movie more life than the post TFA blandness of watching and forgetting about it.

Your rage is keeping the movie relevant 3rd weekend in good job Adolfo.

LOL I will agree with that.. I have had way more fun discussing this film then I did TFA.

I did not care for that one at all when I saw it and it was good to see people eventually wake up a bit and realize it was a bland nothing of a SW film..

TLJ is a better made film vs TFA.. I think that is where some of my frustration comes from.. I like the other work this director has done.. Sad to see him make a Gotcha film of nothingness for his SW film.

I don't hate Broom boy like many and I am interested in what he may have in store for his own SW trilogy. I just hope he takes the legit criticism leveled at this film to heart and makes the new films about something and not the plot holed mess this film turned out to be. I think he has and I think he will.. I really do..

Yeah the critic reviews are great but the one thing I keep reading in a lot of these reviews is that its a film filled with problems but good outweighed the bad.. That's gotta be a blow to a film makers ego... I also believe with time that people will see the bad outweighing the good.

Unless Episode 9 somehow saves it all but I think this will be end up being the trilog I will have to just ignore

 

[Khev]

LOL I will agree with that.. I have had way more fun discussing this film then I did TFA.

I did not care for that one at all when I saw it and it was good to see people eventually wake up a bit and realize it was a bland nothing of a SW film..

TLJ is a better made film vs TFA.. I think that is where some of my frustration comes from.. I like the other work this director has done.. Sad to see him make a Gotcha film of nothingness for his SW film.

I don't hate Broom boy like many and I am interested in what he may have in store for his own SW trilogy. I just hope he takes the legit criticism leveled at this film to heart and makes the new films about something and not the plot holed mess this film turned out to be. I think he has and I think he will.. I really do..

Yeah the critic reviews are great but the one thing I keep reading in a lot of these reviews is that its a film filled with problems but good outweighed the bad.. That's gotta be a blow to a film makers ego... I also believe with time that people will see the bad outweighing the good.

Unless Episode 9 somehow saves it all but I think this will be end up being the trilog I will have to just ignore

Just keep in mind that RO + BR 2049 = nothing to complain about.

As for TLJ jye and I got a new SW film with an awesome Luke Skywalker arc and funny porgs so we're good.

 

[JAWS]

I'm not claiming that you went to TLJ to hate it nor am I claiming that the audience scores on RT are fake. But have you skimmed those reviews? "Luke isn't a coward! Zero stars!" Awesome misunderstanding of his character and laughable dismissal of the film's overall quality. Disney obviously should pay those absolutely no mind. That'd be like me going out of my way to create an RTaccount just to say "Cap's Avengers cowl sucked! I give this movie a score of rotten!" What a joke.

I have read a lot of the negative reviews also.. I think the example you gave is more the exception and not the rule.

 

[JAWS]

Just keep in mind that RO + BR 2049 = nothing to complain about.

As for TLJ jye and I got a new SW film with an awesome Luke Skywalker arc and funny porgs so we're good.

Yeah you keep talking about this awesome Luke Skywalker arc... What film was that in

 

[Khev]

I wrote a lot of the negative reviews also.. I think the example you gave is more the exception and not the rule.

As I suspected.

 

[Darkseed]

Great point and while I agree you have to remember there are SW fans that are so hardcore devoted to the OT or Lucas that nothing Disney can create will ever be recognized as success so it’s too late to fix the ST for them but I believe that group is the minority in the grand scheme of things.

You know the type already no matter what comes out if it’s modern it’s automatically no good.

Disney might not want fans like that they want fans that buy into everything but at a minimum they’ll at least get that groups opening weekend ticket purchases because not even they can resist going to see a new SW movie opening night because of the “event” status that comes with the brand yes even their black hearts are not immune to the power of SW. Better than nothing for Disney, right. A single ticket purchase is still a single ticket purchase at the end of the day even if the person buying it hates new SW.

Then you have a larger group that while are still hardcore devoted to OT they are more open to new SW that is not coming from Lucas but still remain highly skeptical nonetheless. Their hearts are only half black lol.

The way you can tell the 2 apart is with Rogue One.

The former will hate all of RO and tear apart every aspect of it in comparison to the OT while the latter will enjoy many components from it while still recognizing the superiority of the OT although some might even feel a little embarrassed to admit they liked parts of it or maybe even doubt their own feelings.

Then you have the group that firmly believes that the PT > OT lol.

Disney lost the trust of the core ST fans, you have OT/PT/Lucas diehards who hate the ST which leaves Disney with the SW fans who remain open to new paths and the casual movie going public to sustain their growth.

SW is part of the cultural fabric that **** ain’t going nowhere it is here forever but they have their work cut out for them to unify all the splintered groups of fans now which is pretty close to impossible at this point.

Good points. Count me as an OT fan that needed a kick start because the path had become stale and predictable.

R1 told a story beyond the Skywalker sage so engrained in the lore that I found refreshing beyond its flaws. I fully expected TLJ to follow the traditional path and mostly (not all), I was pleasantly surprised. It had me thinking what does this mean going forward versus omg they changed the past 40 yrs. it’s all about perspective and mindset.

 

[Khev]

Good points. Count me as an OT fan that needed a kick start because the path had become stale and predictable.

R1 told a story beyond the Skywalker sage so engrained in the lore that I found refreshing beyond its flaws. I fully expected TLJ to follow the traditional path and mostly (not all), I was pleasantly surprised. It had me thinking what does this mean going forward versus omg they changed the past 40 yrs. it’s all about perspective and mindset.

Yep, not since ESB have the main "Episodes" had me wondering what would happen from one scene to the next. It was nice to experience that in SW again.

 

[Vault Boy]

Great point and while I agree you have to remember there are SW fans that are so hardcore devoted to the OT or Lucas that nothing Disney can create will ever be recognized as success so it’s too late to fix the ST for them but I believe that group is the minority in the grand scheme of things.

You know the type already no matter what comes out if it’s modern it’s automatically no good.

Disney might not want fans like that they want fans that buy into everything but at a minimum they’ll at least get that groups opening weekend ticket purchases because not even they can resist going to see a new SW movie opening night because of the “event” status that comes with the brand yes even their black hearts are not immune to the power of SW. Better than nothing for Disney, right. A single ticket purchase is still a single ticket purchase at the end of the day even if the person buying it hates new SW.

Then you have a larger group that while are still hardcore devoted to OT they are more open to new SW that is not coming from Lucas but still remain highly skeptical nonetheless. Their hearts are only half black lol.

The way you can tell the 2 apart is with Rogue One.

The former will hate all of RO and tear apart every aspect of it in comparison to the OT while the latter will enjoy many components from it while still recognizing the superiority of the OT although some might even feel a little embarrassed to admit they liked parts of it or maybe even doubt their own feelings.

Then you have the group that firmly believes that the PT > OT lol.

Disney lost the trust of the core ST fans, you have OT/PT/Lucas diehards who hate the ST which leaves Disney with the SW fans who remain open to new paths and the casual movie going public to sustain their growth.

SW is part of the cultural fabric that **** ain’t going nowhere it is here forever but they have their work cut out for them to unify all the splintered groups of fans now.

Actually, I liked TFA until I watched it on blue ray and picked up on certain details, particularly the scene when Rey tells Finn to "let go of my hand!" And then a little later when Finn is on the ground she holds out her hand and he takes it and she leads him away. This was the movie telling the audience that Rey "wears the pants". Tacky! Finn couldve just not grabbed her by the hand at all, especially after he saw her beat up 3 guys at the same time.

I was able to overlook the Mary Sue aspect when I saw it in the theater but it just became too much over time. They broke all the rules with the Force, in fact. Force sensitives are god-like now.

 

[JAWS]

Great point and while I agree you have to remember there are SW fans that are so hardcore devoted to the OT or Lucas that nothing Disney can create will ever be recognized as success so it’s too late to fix the ST for them but I believe that group is the minority in the grand scheme of things.

You know the type already no matter what comes out if it’s modern it’s automatically no good.

Disney might not want fans like that they want fans that buy into everything but at a minimum they’ll at least get that groups opening weekend ticket purchases because not even they can resist going to see a new SW movie opening night because of the “event” status that comes with the brand yes even their black hearts are not immune to the power of SW. Better than nothing for Disney, right. A single ticket purchase is still a single ticket purchase at the end of the day even if the person buying it hates new SW.

Then you have a larger group that while are still hardcore devoted to OT they are more open to new SW that is not coming from Lucas but still remain highly skeptical nonetheless. Their hearts are only half black lol.

The way you can tell the 2 apart is with Rogue One.

The former will hate all of RO and tear apart every aspect of it in comparison to the OT while the latter will enjoy many components from it while still recognizing the superiority of the OT although some might even feel a little embarrassed to admit they liked parts of it or maybe even doubt their own feelings.

Then you have the group that firmly believes that the PT > OT lol.

Disney lost the trust of the core ST fans, you have OT/PT/Lucas diehards who hate the ST which leaves Disney with the SW fans who remain open to new paths and the casual movie going public to sustain their growth.

SW is part of the cultural fabric that **** ain’t going nowhere it is here forever but they have their work cut out for them to unify all the splintered groups of fans now which is pretty close to impossible at this point.

Yeah.. I guess. I think its all weird. PT OT only fans..

I can see if there is an OT only fan base.. I mean those are by far the best of the series an the best story telling is happening in those films..

I can see preferring the PT over the ST because again the story telling is more original and the worlds are more imaginative but the film making is not so I can't see getting on your high horse about those film.

RO is great but I can see why some would have issues with it because it does IMO need repeat viewings to fully love and care for the characters... 1st time viewing I loved the look and story but thought the hero's were very bland but now they are some of my favs in the entire series.

So in the end of the aimless post I am making I would say that there is plenty to not be happy about in the ST with both films and that I can understand why RO is not as loved.

But that is no excuse to be acting like the PT is some sort of masterpiece

 

[Sassafras]

Star Wars TLJ was going to make 1 Billion or more regardless of the script. Star Wars is such a phenomenon it reaches every age and demographic, the audience that was disappointed obliviously paid for their ticket adding to the movies revenue. I agree more people seemed to have enjoyed TLJ that didn't and the ones that didn't seem to be the loudest, but something making a lot of money doesnt mean its especially good. Jurassic World made a fortune and i thought it was abysmal , but look they are making a sequel! I admit Rian's character take on Luke's wasnt something I liked or thought was appropriate but i am one out of 1 Billion ticket sales. At some fundamental core people who still enjoyed and liked this movie have to admit The Canto scenes, the dismissal of TFA plot lines, feminism undertones and bad humor was distracting and unneeded.

I still went to TLJ to love a Star Wars movie never did I intend to not too.

Well, yeah. But what probably outrages the *outraged* even more is people like me who completely agree that the movie could've, should've "done some things better" (and where the **** was an average high school student intern who could've stepped into the editing room and pointed out the holes).

But the people like me who don't care and will see the movie again, and buy it. Because, hey, it's Star Wars. And there's plenty of good stuff in TLJ. I don't think there's anything in TLJ that annoys me the way stuff in the prequels does, and I re-watch those. Jurassic World has some gawd-awful stuff but re-watch that too every now and then. (Because it's got good stuff too, even if it's just little moments I like.)

Re TLJ, even if I'm still PO'd about Phasma's fate (huh. After all the TFA build-up about the character). The thing is the *outraged* can't roll with what they don't like. 'Coz they're too ****** to see anything positive. (I understand that to a degree - there's some films I won't even watch because, maybe, the book it was based on is better, or something. Or there was IMO an unforgivable miscast.)

But with TLJ, sure, Rey's a Mary Sue. Too much of "how awesome females are". Broom boy. Too much BB-8. But Mark Hamill and Adam Driver are impressive; I like Rey and Poe and Finn and Rose, movie has imagination and some spectacular sequences/visuals. It's a great mid-trilogy film IMO. And the approach to Luke was interesting - a true journey from tragedy to triumph and peace, in the end. It had intelligence and dignity vs. another "Conan rises from the ashes and beats the **** out of the other guy" approach. And interestingly, it unsettled Kylo, which sets up some dynamics for the next film, possibly.

 

[JAWS]

As I suspected.

If only I had that kind of time.. This site sucks up what little free time I have that is not with family

 

[Matt S]

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Star-Wars-passes-Beauty-and-the-Beast-as-top-12464721.php

 

[JAWS]

Yep, not since ESB have main "Episodes" had me wondering what would happen from one scene to the next. It was nice to experience that in SW again.

So weird.. It really is like we saw two different films. This is the first to not leave me caring or wanting to know what happens next.. It wraps things up a bit too neatly... No real "questions" to have answered..

As much as I did not like TFA I was very curious about the next film and where it would take us.. Now that I know the answers (nowhere) I just don't care.

I am more excited for the stand alone stories and even the new Johnson trilogy.

 

[Darkseed]

Yep, not since ESB have main "Episodes" had me wondering what would happen from one scene to the next. It was nice to experience that in SW again.

Yup. That’s why I’m more forgiving than others.

It’s strange how the majority clamors for something different from Disney (MCU, SW) and when they get it they freak out.

Don’t get me wrong TFA is a copy of OT to bring back the nastalga. TLJ has plenty copy and paste moments yet they introduced something that could take the franchise in a different direction versus rinse and repeat. I’d think that alone would win the favor of many yet it feels like they prefer the comfort of the known.

All that said, I mentioned it’s critical for those of us on the fence they do something with it. If they don’t, we can easily fall to the over critical side.

 

[JAWS]

Well, yeah. But what probably outrages the *outraged* even more is people like me who completely agree that the movie could've, should've "done some things better" (and where the **** was an average high school student intern who could've stepped into the editing room and pointed out the holes).

But the people like me who don't care and will see the movie again, and buy it. Because, hey, it's Star Wars..

Yep this is me.. Because even bad SW is good SW

Not sure how much I will re-watch this film though if 9 sucks.. This will be like the transformers trilogy to me.. Pretty to look at but no substance at all So it might get viewed every 5 to six years

As opposed to my OT / RO yearly viewing

 

[Sassafras]

LOL I will agree with that.. I have had way more fun discussing this film then I did TFA.

I did not care for that one at all when I saw it and it was good to see people eventually wake up a bit and realize it was a bland nothing of a SW film..

TLJ is a better made film vs TFA.. I think that is where some of my frustration comes from.. I like the other work this director has done.. Sad to see him make a Gotcha film of nothingness for his SW film.

I don't hate Broom boy like many and I am interested in what he may have in store for his own SW trilogy. I just hope he takes the legit criticism leveled at this film to heart and makes the new films about something and not the plot holed mess this film turned out to be. I think he has and I think he will.. I really do..

Yeah the critic reviews are great but the one thing I keep reading in a lot of these reviews is that its a film filled with problems but good outweighed the bad.. That's gotta be a blow to a film makers ego... I also believe with time that people will see the bad outweighing the good.

Unless Episode 9 somehow saves it all but I think this will be end up being the trilog I will have to just ignore

Well, I don't know about that. A story that sticks in my head is waaaaay back, Peter Jackson giving Arwen so much prominence and when asked about the Arwen/Aragorn garden bridge scene (not in book etc.) he said "because he thought it would be nice". Then there's directors like Michael Bay.

Just sayin' sometimes I get the feeling on set that directors ARE questioned and argued with. Like Marvel arguing with Whedon over the Ultron farmhouse scene. But directors "win" (at times) and get to "realize their vision" whether it works or not. Not sure at times if directors really CARE about the questions/problems. They go ahead and do stuff anyway. I guess they feel like otherwise they'd never get anything done.