Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[JAWS]

It’s strange how the majority clamors for something different from Disney (MCU, SW) and when they get it they freak out.

.

Again why does it have to be one extreme or the other.. I think that is peoples main complaint..

Oh and that fact that different is great.. If the story is there.. The non fans don't think it is. The Fans do.

 

[Khev]

Yeah you keep talking about this awesome Luke Skywalker arc... What film was that in

Something that always annoyed me about the prequels was that it never presented the Dark Side of the Force in the manner that Yoda described; "quicker, easier, more seductive." That wasn't why Hayden Christensen's non-canon character turned at all.

TLJ actually dared to show us that aspect of the Force with Luke at Ben's bedside. What's quicker than skewering a sleeping threat? Or easier for that matter? That was Dark Side temptation in it's purest form. And though I'm loathe to admit it it even gave a nice reflection of Palpatine's speech in ROTS about how ultimate evil likes to murder people in their sleep (Plageuis.) But Luke resisted. He's never been fully immune to the Dark Side (he clearly went too far when pounding the **** out of Vader at the end of ROTJ) but like in ROTJ he came to his senses before he crossed the point of no return.

Master Luke clearly thought he was beyond such temptations (the classic hubris of fully trained Jedi as stated by he himself and again echoed in those loathsome prequels) but of course he was not. What a silly and naive story it would have been if it presented Luke (or any hero) as being impervious to mistakes or moments of weakness. One of my favorite aspects of TLJ is it's undercurrent of depression, guilt and hopelessness as truer villains than any physical person. The real "phantom menace" if you will. Luke faced possibly the most sinister threat of all, was beat down by it, but rose to face it and overcame in spectacular fashion. TLJ once again elevated him as the hero above all heroes in the entire saga.

 

[Khev]

So weird.. It really is like we saw two different films. This is the first to not leave me caring or wanting to know what happens next.. It wraps things up a bit too neatly... No real "questions" to have answered..

As much as I did not like TFA I was very curious about the next film and where it would take us.. Now that I know the answers (nowhere) I just don't care.

I am more excited for the stand alone stories and even the new Johnson trilogy.

We might have seen two different films but I'm actually with you on not clamoring for an immediate need to see what happens next in the Saga. Luke fading away with the hope of new generations of heroes to come is actually a fitting end for me.

 

[Darkseed]

Again why does it have to be one extreme or the other.. I think that is peoples main complaint..

Oh and that fact that different is great.. If the story is there.. The non fans don't think it is. The Fans do.

I didn’t feel it was one or the other...plenty of friendly memorable moments of comfort and something different?????

It’s hard to judge the story because it isn’t complete yet, least that’s how I view it. Once the saga is complete, I’ll judge it. At the moment it’s rather average with the ability to shift if the Arc is done properly in Ep 9

 

[JAWS]

Well, I don't know about that. A story that sticks in my head is waaaaay back, Peter Jackson giving Arwen so much prominence and when asked about the Arwen/Aragorn garden bridge scene (not in book etc.) he said "because he thought it would be nice". Then there's directors like Michael Bay.

Just sayin' sometimes I get the feeling on set that directors ARE questioned and argued with. Like Marvel arguing with Whedon over the Ultron farmhouse scene. But directors "win" (at times) and get to "realize their vision" whether it works or not. Not sure at times if directors really CARE about the questions/problems. They go ahead and do stuff anyway. I guess they feel like otherwise they'd never get anything done.

True but my point is that you have the haters and the fans... Both sides agree that this film has a lot of issues.. One side just seems to be willing to look past it.

I think Johnson is a great filmmaker and story teller.. I gotta think he takes that too heart.. Or he is an ego maniac like the rest of Hollywood and the will make his whole new trilogy about nothing.

 

[jye4ever]

All the TLJ rage backlash has actually made me now MORE super curious now where Kylo and Rey’s journey are taking us lol

It’s bizarre never felt anything like this before.

The external rage backlash is getting me more excited with the wackiness of witnessing Disney playing with fire.

Disney the most safe generic lame entertainment corporation took the most beloved brand in history and freaking played fire with it that’s crazy and took quite some balls.

Leia Superman!

Much respect for Rian much more so than Lucas and his yes men and women giggling on the set of the PT because Yoda was going to jump around like a frog on crack cocaine.

 

[Vault Boy]

Yup. That’s why I’m more forgiving than others.

It’s strange how the majority clamors for something different from Disney (MCU, SW) and when they get it they freak out.

Don’t get me wrong TFA is a copy of OT to bring back the nastalga. TLJ has plenty copy and paste moments yet they introduced something that could take the franchise in a different direction versus rinse and repeat. I’d think that alone would win the favor of many yet it feels like they prefer the comfort of the known.

All that said, I mentioned it’s critical for those of us on the fence they do something with it. If they don’t, we can easily fall to the over critical side.

"Something different" doesn't automatically make it "good". It's sad seeing so many defenders arguing this nonsense. The **** was backasswards storytelling.

 

[JAWS]

Something that always annoyed me about the prequels was that it never presented the Dark Side of the Force in the manner that Yoda described; "quicker, easier, more seductive." That wasn't why Hayden Christensen's non-canon character turned at all.

TLJ actually dared to show us that aspect of the Force with Luke at Ben's bedside. What's quicker than skewering a sleeping threat? Or easier for that matter? That was Dark Side temptation in it's purest form. And though I'm loathe to admit it it even gave a nice reflection of Palpatine's speech in ROTS about how ultimate evil likes to murder people in their sleep (Plageuis.) But Luke resisted. He's never been fully immune to the Dark Side (he clearly went too far when pounding the **** out of Vader at the end of ROTJ) but like in ROTJ he came to his senses before he crossed the point of no return.

Master Luke clearly thought he was beyond such temptations (the classic hubris of fullt trained Jedi as stated by he himself and again echoed in those loathsome prequels) but of course he was not. What a silly and naive story it would have been if it presented Luke (or any hero) as being impervious to mistakes or moments of weakness. One of my favorite aspects of TLJ is it's undercurrent of depression, guilt and hopelessness as truer villains than any physical person. The real "phantom menace" if you will. Luke faced possibly the most sinister threat of all, was beat down by it, but rose to face it and overcame in spectacular fashion. TLJ once again elevated him as the hero above all heroes in the entire saga.

Like the main freaking hero of these new movies... Rey

We are not really going to disagree to much Luke as I did not mind his story and what the director was trying to do.

It was more about execution and how he told the story. IMO it was not very compelling... Scratch that.. It ended up not being very compelling.. I was interested with my first viewing but once I knew what happened and how it got there.. Well it fell into the same problems that much of the film did. It too a long time to to really go nowhere (Dark side sink holes, silly training etc...) just so Luke could change his mind and then die (did any of think this was not going to happen?). I don't mind where it ended up... It just could have done a much better / more compelling way to get there.

Way too much time wasted on bad sub plots with other characters and Rey's own boring story to really make Luke's arc as compelling as it should have been.

 

[Lakhota]

"Something different" doesn't automatically make it "good". It's sad seeing so many defenders arguing this nonsense. The **** was backasswards storytelling.

I totally agree, I respect others opinion and think its great they enjoyed it. But, it drives me ****ing bananas how much I hated this movie. I cant see how the Super Leia, Titter milk, dropped story lines and the Canto plot brought anything to this sequel. I thought it was an April's fool joke in December.

 

[JAWS]

Much respect for Rian much more so than Lucas and his yes men and women giggling on the set of the PT because Yoda was going to jump around like a frog on crack cocaine.

Ya know.. It seems like a lot of people loved that Cracked up Yoda when that film first came out.. People were applauding at the first showing when I went.. Hell I even got a kick of it though it went against everything I thought Yoda was about..

Repeat viewing helped me despise it

Be honest Jye... You loved Cracked up Frog Yoda the first time you saw it also

 

[Khev]

All the TLJ rage backlash has actually made me now MORE super curious now where Kylo and Rey’s journey are taking us lol

It’s bizarre never felt anything like this before.

The external rage backlash is getting me more excited with the wackiness of witnessing Disney playing with fire.

Disney the most safe generic lame entertainment corporation took the most beloved brand in history and freaking played fire with it that’s crazy and took quite some balls.

Leia Superman!

Much respect for Rian much more so than Lucas and his yes men and women giggling on the set of the PT because Yoda was going to jump around like a frog on crack cocaine.

As easy it is for me to see how all of Luke's behavior that is supposedly so outrageous links perfectly with his character in the OT I definitely *cannot* do the same for Space Leia, lol. It's actually kind of hilarious to think back to watching her freeze up and then her hand starts moving, then she starts...flying. lol. Not since "the taxation of trade routes is in dispute" have I had such a "what...the...****..." moment while watching a SW film. I mean we had no idea what was coming next! Was she going to start talking in space? Fly at warp speed to Luke's island? Go full Dark Phoenix?? I can never hate that scene on account of it's unbridled and unapologetic audacity for going so *spectacularly* off the rails. Especially since in the end she just floated to the door and went into a coma for half the flick so no harm no foul.

I've never been against risks, surprises, or filmmakers daring to go off the reservation. Sometimes it backfires and you get prequel crap or lolnados that ruin the entire movie but that didn't occur in TLJ IMO.

 

[Darkseed]

"Something different" doesn't automatically make it "good". It's sad seeing so many defenders arguing this nonsense. The **** was backasswards storytelling.

I don’t recall saying change automatically makes anything better, that’s on you. My statement was tolerance to change because the franchise for me was stale.

It’s equally sad to read grown ups being negatively impacted by a fictional story and characters when there is so much life to live.

But to each their own

 

[jye4ever]

Something that always annoyed me about the prequels was that it never presented the Dark Side of the Force in the manner that Yoda described; "quicker, easier, more seductive." That wasn't why Hayden Christensen's non-canon character turned at all.

TLJ actually dared to show us that aspect of the Force with Luke at Ben's bedside. What's quicker than skewering a sleeping threat? Or easier for that matter? That was Dark Side temptation in it's purest form. And though I'm loathe to admit it it even gave a nice reflection of Palpatine's speech in ROTS about how ultimate evil likes to murder people in their sleep (Plageuis.) But Luke resisted. He's never been fully immune to the Dark Side (he clearly went too far when pounding the **** out of Vader at the end of ROTJ) but like in ROTJ he came to his senses before he crossed the point of no return.

Master Luke clearly thought he was beyond such temptations (the classic hubris of fully trained Jedi as stated by he himself and again echoed in those loathsome prequels) but of course he was not. What a silly and naive story it would have been if it presented Luke (or any hero) as being impervious to mistakes or moments of weakness. One of my favorite aspects of TLJ is it's undercurrent of depression, guilt and hopelessness as truer villains than any physical person. The real "phantom menace" if you will. Luke faced possibly the most sinister threat of all, was beat down by it, but rose to face it and overcame in spectacular fashion. TLJ once again elevated him as the hero above all heroes in the entire saga.

While both Luke and Logan equally delayed the villains for the next generation of heroes to escape I thought Luke had a more bad *** showdown than Logan.

I liked how the FO was dragging that giant laser engine around like ball and chain shackles of their devotion to technology above all else and how Luke once again showed them how it’s still not the correct path to victory.

 

[JAWS]

While both Luke and Logan equally delayed the villains for the next generation of heroes to escape I thought Luke had a more bad *** showdown than Logan.

I liked how the FO was dragging that giant laser engine around like ball and chain shackles of their devotion to technology above all else and how Luke once again showed them how it’s still not the correct path to victory.

Finn was going to show that all on his own till Rose F'ed it all up

 

[jye4ever]

Ya know.. It seems like a lot of people loved that Cracked up Yoda when that film first came out.. People were applauding at the first showing when I went.. Hell I even got a kick of it though it went against everything I thought Yoda was about..

Repeat viewing helped me despise it

Be honest Jye... You loved Cracked up Frog Yoda the first time you saw it also

Nope nope nope I absolutely cringed when that happened and yes while you are correct that the majority of the audience did applaud when he took out his mini saber once he started jumping around the applause turned into horror and laughter lol.

 

[jye4ever]

Finn was going to show that all on his own till Rose F'ed it all up

I agree that would’ve been a great nice send off for him but they still need him to be revealed as Black Snoke Rising in IX lol

 

[spindrift]

I don’t recall saying change automatically makes anything better, that’s on you. My statement was tolerance to change because the franchise for me was stale.

It’s equally sad to read grown ups being negatively impacted by a fictional story and characters when there is so much life to live.

But to each their own

Well maybe SW is their life...ughhhhh

 

[TonTon]

Yup. That’s why I’m more forgiving than others.

It’s strange how the majority clamors for something different from Disney (MCU, SW) and when they get it they freak out.

Don’t get me wrong TFA is a copy of OT to bring back the nastalga. TLJ has plenty copy and paste moments yet they introduced something that could take the franchise in a different direction versus rinse and repeat. I’d think that alone would win the favor of many yet it feels like they prefer the comfort of the known.

All that said, I mentioned it’s critical for those of us on the fence they do something with it. If they don’t, we can easily fall to the over critical side.

What were the different parts that worked for you? To me the main different thing was what I found to be bad humor that departed from the hero to hero humor of the past. The casino scene seemed like something out of a Rebels episode or the prequels.

The only different things that stood out to me were the hyperspace kamikaze, the astral projection (to an extent this just seems like a more advanced version of Yoda’s Vader trick in the cave, but Yoda was able to make Vader interact with Luke), and the hyperspace tracking.

 

[Khev]

While both Luke and Logan equally delayed the villains for the next generation of heroes to escape I thought Luke had a more bad *** showdown than Logan.

I liked how the FO was dragging that giant laser engine around like ball and chain shackles of their devotion to technology above all else and how Luke once again showed them how it’s still not the correct path to victory.

Agreed and on that same note some people apparently saw the race animals being rescued as nothing more than some weird political statement but I saw it as further evidence of the ongoing symbiotic relationship with nature that the good guys always have in these films. Rose and Finn led the captive animals to safety and then at the end those crystal foxes returned the favor.

And I have to wonder how Kylo will process Luke's powers post-TLJ. After hero worshipping Vader and fearing he'll never be as powerful as the Dark Lord how will he digest the awareness thst Luke displayed powers that exceeded Palpatine, Vader, AND Snoke put together?

 

[Darkseed]

Finn has been a double agent all along working for Hux. Now he has Rose as well....good thinking Jye *