Superman vs Hulk

[Kamandi]

...It still stands up today much like Kingdom Come (which has to be THE BEST comic book story ever told).....

One of my favorites, but I think DC:The New Frontier books may edge it out by a hair. But KC has the coolest take on Bruce Wayne anywhere.

 

[DiFabio]

The first time I read TDKR I wasn't really impressed with the art work, it was the story that I enjoyed. After awhile, I got used to it and really sort of liked it. It grew on me.

I'm not really a comic reader or a fan of comic books, my interest really stems from the films, the animated series and shows, but there are stories that, as a fan, you HAVE to read. The Dark Knight Returns is one of those stories.

As I get older, I find myself looking for more Batman. You can only watch one of the films or one of the episodes so many times. Some of the comic stories are the perfect outlets for that. Once you start reading them, you'll see that they were the inspirations for some of your favorite non-comic stories.

 

[thenammagazine]

One of my favorites, but I think DC:The New Frontier books may edge it out by a hair. But KC has the coolest take on Bruce Wayne anywhere.

Don't read people, if you haven't already read Kingdom Come.

Spoiler

The ending, "SHAZAM!" had me laughing my ass off. I hadn't laughed that hard from a comic in years.

On a sad note, Waid is one of the most underrated writers around. When I saw him at WonderCon, nobody was around so we got to talk to him for a good half hour (he gave some insight about Ross' tantrum over who's responsible for KC's success with Ross believing it was all him). At one point, some ****** kid in a Batman Begins shirt even walked up and asked him where the bathroom was.

 

[Kamandi]

Some of my other favorites from that time -

"The Killing Joke" by Alan Moore
"Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth" by Grant Morrison
"Gotham by Gaslight" Brian Augustyn and pre-Hellboy Mike Mignola

 

[thenammagazine]

Some of my other favorites from that time -

"The Killing Joke" by Alan Moore
"Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth" by Grant Morrison
"Gotham by Gaslight" Brian Augustyn and pre-Hellboy Mike Mignola

Another absolute must for any fan of Batman. It's umpteen reprints prove it.

 

[Kamandi]

Don't read people, if you haven't already read Kingdom Come.

Spoiler

The ending, "SHAZAM!" had me laughing my ass off. I hadn't laughed that hard from a comic in years.

Spoiler

..and Luthor saying "Shut up"

On a sad note, Waid is one of the most underrated writers around. When I saw him at WonderCon, nobody was around so we got to talk to him for a good half hour (he gave some insight about Ross' tantrum over who's responsible for KC's success with Ross believing it was all him). At one point, some ****** kid in a Batman Begins shirt even walked up and asked him where the bathroom was.

Waid is right in being upset. Ross's art sells the book. It's gorgeous to look at. It's also the best written story Ross has ever worked on. I love the way "Justice" and "Marvels" look but the stories don't hold a candle.

 

[thenammagazine]

Waid is right in being upset. Ross's art sells the book. It's gorgeous to look at. It's also the best written story Ross has ever worked on. I love the way "Justice" and "Marvels" look but the stories don't hold a candle.

Yeah, I don't want to take away anything from Ross. His artwork is phenomenal, but it wouldn't have been nearly as epic without Waid's words. It's so bad, apparently, that Ross won't even sign a copy if he sees Waid's autograph. I couldn't imagine waiting in line for that, wasting precious con time, only to be turned down because of a petty tantrum. Lucky for me Ross was at WonderCon the year before Waid, so I got both (also got him to sign a copy of Terminator - his first work in comics ).

 

[Kamandi]

It's so bad, apparently, that Ross won't sign a copy if he sees Waid's autograph.

Wow. That's a ____ move. I'm in awe of Ross's skills as an illustrator but he is not a great writer. I thought his 'Uncle Sam' was an iconoclastic mess. He needs to come back down off his mountain of ego and do something besides covers.

 

[carbo-fation]

Speaking of gaslight, do any of you old folks know if it was ever released in hardcover?

 

[Kamandi]

On amazon it's only listed as softcover. It was only ~70 pages long.

 

[BB&WSF]

Speaking of gaslight, do any of you old folks know if it was ever released in hardcover?

I don't think so. I tried sometimes on the bay to find one, but only found the one shot.

 

[carbo-fation]

I know but my OCD won't allow me to purchase anything less than a HC.

 

[steve74]

I hate to say this, because more often than not, I see it used to reinforce a douchily thin argument, but this should be a necessity for any true fan of Batman (unless you're a Nolan fanboy only). It still stands up today much like Kingdom Come (which has to be THE BEST comic book story ever told). Avoid the sequel to TDKR though, it flat-out sucked as the desperate cash grab it was.

You just earned some mad respect points for the Kingdom Come statement.

 

[thenammagazine]

Wow. That's a ____ move. I'm in awe of Ross's skills as an illustrator but he is not a great writer. I thought his 'Uncle Sam' was an iconoclastic mess. He needs to come back down off his mountain of ego and do something besides covers.

I forget what his own series was called (published by Dynamite?), where he essentially just pulled an Image and ripped off all the major comic characters and added slight redesigns, but man that thing sucked.

You just earned some mad respect points for the Kingdom Come statement.

I don't see how any self-respecting comic fan can dislike that story.

 

[FLOSI]

Fixed it.

@ our under-read youth - There was a time people had fierce debates over who was the better writer - Frank Miller or Alan Moore. Frank was at the top of his game in the late 80's and early 90's when Moore was writing stuff like Swamp Thing, Watchmen, Marvelman (Miracleman in the US) and V for Vendetta. It was an amazing time to read comics.

Frank has what I consider three essential collections that must be read by anyone who loves comics - "Batman: The Dark Knight Returns", "Batman: Year One" and "Daredevil: Born Again". Miller also has a lot of Sin City fans and Hard Boiled and some other stories from shortly after this period, but these are my three.

The two Miller Batman stories have been borrowed from for almost every Batman film. Robocop also borrowed heavily from The Dark Knight Returns with the frequent breaks in the action to insert social commentary and spoofs of cultural icons.

TDKReturns is Batman in his old age after disappearing for ten years, driven to set a world gone mad back to sorts. It was originally four graphic novels (the birth of the format in fact) published with the individual titles The Dark Knight Returns, The Dark Knight Triumphant, Hunt The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Falls.

Year One is hands down the best Jim Gordon story ever. It is a more straightforward narrative unfolding over the course of Gordon's first year in Gotham, the year Bruce Wayne returns home and begins his war on the Falcone crime family. DON'T think you've seen the story if all you've done is watch that crappy DVD cartoon.

Daredevil: Born Again was originally published as six regular issues of the Daredevil monthly series. Karen Page, a former girlfriend of Matt Murdock, has become an addict and hits rock bottom. She sells the last thing of value she owns for a fix: The secret identity of Daredevil. This information makes it's way back the The Kingpin who exacts a calculated and brutal retribution on Murdock. As Kingpin later says "A man with nothing to live for is a man without fear."

I wish Miller could still create comics at this level. Do not read Miller's more recent TDK2 or "All Star Batman and Robin". They're awful.

One of my very, very, very favorite!!

 

[FLOSI]

Speaking of gaslight, do any of you old folks know if it was ever released in hardcover?

I wanna say no... it was a pretty short GN.

 

[BB&WSF]

I know but my OCD won't allow me to purchase anything less than a HC.

Same here. HC is an OCD with me as well. Example: I could never get around buying Batman: Gothic because it was not released in HC (I know its stupid )

About Superman and Hulk, guess Supes could beat the Jade Giant once he gets tired and loses his rage, which will eventually transform him back to Banner, making it easy for Superman to slap him out of his senses or something. But then Superman will never do that, being the ethical and nice guy he is. I guess a better poll would be Hulk Vs. Thor

 

[thenammagazine]

Same here. HC is an OCD with me as well. Example: I could never get around buying Batman: Gothic because it was not released in HC (I know its stupid )

About Superman and Hulk, guess Supes could beat the Jade Giant once he gets tired and loses his rage, which will eventually transform him back to Banner, making it easy for Superman to slap him out of his senses or something. But then Superman will never do that, being the ethical and nice guy he is. I guess a better poll would be Hulk Vs. Thor

Nah, post WWH Hulk beats Thor.

 

[Kamandi]

I can't believe I left out Moore wrote two of the best Superman stories ever:

"For the Man Who Has Everything" - Adapted into one of the better episodes of Justice League Unlimited, the original is still better.

"Whatever Happened to The Man of Tomorrow?" - A heartfelt sendoff to Silver Age Supes by Moore and the great Curt Swan. Moore uses all the kitschy silver age elements of the Superman Family to surprising dramatic effect to tell his "last Superman story". Followed shortly after by John Byrne's reboot.

It's too bad Alan Moore doesn't want to write in the superhero genre any more, he was so good at it.

 

[BB&WSF]

Nah, post WWH Hulk beats Thor.

Yeah, even Wolverine, if I am not wrong. I guess any superhero who gets into a brawl with Hulk would eventually give up because he's so darn persistant. I guess you can't defeat him. Even after he's down, he'll come back after he recovers and try to get even. Just leave him alone, isn't that what he always wanted.