Swamp Thing Maquette

[Collectorcol]

I'm still ordering

.....

Cool story

 

[Collectorcol]

Hi guys, Im new to this forum..I have been reading all your concerns over the new Sideshow Swamp Thing. And to be honest they were my concerns as well after reading the words vinyl and pvc. Well, I did a little research. I went to their site read again what is was made of, which now says vinyl and resin. Then I researched those materials and found out that many high quality statues are actually made of these materials. I also then chatted with someone at sideshow and expressed my concern over the materials that used for Swamp Thing. This is a transcript of our conversation:

Chat started: 2017-10-27 05:19 PM UTC

(05:19:20 PM) alberto verdi: Hello just wanted to know what kind of resin is the swamp thing going to be made of?
(05:19:30 PM) Sideshow Support: Hang tight, we're running a bit slower than normal. Thanks for your patience!
(05:19:37 PM) alberto verdi: no problem
(05:31:22 PM) *** Aliesha joined the chat ***
(05:31:40 PM) Aliesha: Hi Alberto! Excellent question! Let me see if I can get that information for you
(05:32:07 PM) alberto verdi: thanks
(05:39:04 PM) Aliesha: You are very welcome! Here is what we have listed on the website which gives you an idea of which pieces are going to be made of what, but I'll be happy to answer further questions if you have them
(05:39:06 PM) Aliesha: "The Exclusive edition of the Swamp Thing Maquette includes Cranius of the Un-Men, measuring 4” tall atop a proximity polyresin base that can be displayed near Swamp Thing for an enhanced display. Cranius himself is cast in translucent vinyl, giving this formidable foe of Swamp Thing a detailed, fleshy appearance."
(05:40:50 PM) alberto verdi: So is Cranius made of vinyl and polyresin? what about swamp thing?
(05:42:13 PM) alberto verdi: Im just concerned that swamp thing the main piece is made of just vinyl
(05:42:33 PM) Aliesha: Oops! I forgot the first part of that!
(05:42:41 PM) Aliesha: "The Swamp Thing Maquette measures 24” tall on an environmental polyresin base designed to emulate the muck and mire from which he has emerged. There is a clear water feature beneath his feet, as well as a muddy embankment with trees and various swamp fauna.

Swamp Thing has an intricate tangle of vines, roots, and tendrils emerging from his body, capturing the movement of his ever-changing natural form that balances humanoid musculature with living, growing vegetation. His sturdy body is made with vinyl, with PVC for his smaller parts to capture and preserve the immense detail in each layer of his form."
(05:43:35 PM) Aliesha: So in other words, it's going to be a mix of polyresin as well as vinyl for the more intricate parts such as the detailed vines.
(05:44:39 PM) Aliesha: It will certainly not only be vinyl though. We took this approach in order to capture the detail that wouldn't be able to be achieved in the same way if only done in polystone. This also helps avoid breakage as well.
(05:46:33 PM) alberto verdi: Oh ok, makes me feel better..I just envisioned a weightless piece without any feel of substance and weight to it, you know like a statue is supposed to feel
(05:51:46 PM) Aliesha: Yes, many collectors feel that weight means value, which, at one point, I did too to be honest! Then once it was explained to me by production, it made complete sense on why they use multiple materials. What I was taught in the process of making this piece is that in order to achieve a those realistic edges and wrinkles and areas on the piece that are so detailed, vinyl is the way to go. In fact, this material is far more expensive than polyresin! Which is why the entire piece is actually not made with this material. Additionally, polyresin would make the detail much more fragile, so breakage during transit would be inevitable.
(05:52:33 PM) Aliesha: That's what I understood that weight does not equate value. I'll give you an example as well with two polystone pieces.
(05:55:02 PM) Aliesha: So our Bane statue currently on our website is an extremely large premium format figure due to the character itself. However, this piece is must lighter than our Lex Luthor Premium Format Figure that is a smaller premium format figure. The reason for this is because large muscles and big base actually allow for more cavities, which makes the piece lighter.
(05:55:39 PM) Aliesha: Now our exclusive Bane sold out very quickly, so the value of that still withholds despite the weight.
(05:56:10 PM) Aliesha: To me what determines the value is the execution of the piece itself.
(05:57:43 PM) alberto verdi: Wow, learn something new everyday, not that I was an expert, you definitely eliminated all my concerns about this statue..its definitely gorgeous!..Thank you so much for taking the time to explain it the way you did..you guys are great!
(05:58:07 PM) alberto verdi: You have a great day!

After that I pre-ordered...and you know what I feel good about my decision. Hope this helps those in the same boat of doubts about this piece.

I've just spoke with Aliesha...

Aliesha
I do not believe we have used this material for an entire figure quite yet. Ya, we've gotten lots of feed back for the Predator Bust, however, that piece as well was a piece that was polyresin as well as vinyl and We took this approach in order to capture the detail that wouldn't be able to be achieved in the same way if only done in polystone. This also helps avoid breakage as well.

Many collectors feel that weight means value, which, at one point, I did too to be honest! Then once it was explained to me by production, it made complete sense on why they use multiple materials. What I was taught in the process of making this piece is that in order to achieve a those realistic edges wrinkles and scares, and areas on the piece that are so detailed, vinyl is the way to go. In fact, this material is far more expensive than polyresin! Which is why the entire piece is actually not made with this material. Additionally, polyresin would make the detail much more fragile, so breakage during transit would be inevitable.

That's when I understood that weight does not equate value. I'll give you an example as well with two polystone pieces.

So our Bane statue currently on our website is an extremely large premium format figure due to the character itself. However, this piece is must lighter than our Lex Luthor Premium Format Figure that is a smaller premium format figure. The reason for this is because large muscles and big base actually allow for more cavities, which makes the piece lighter.

Now our exclusive Bane sold out very quickly, so the value of that still withholds despite the weight.

To me what determines the value is the execution of the piece itself.

Got a confirmation that Iron Man MKIII will be Polyresin

 

[Heavy Metal Spike]

I've just spoke with Aliesha . . .

Was that "Aliesha quote" from YOU "chatting" (or emailing?) with her Col?

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[MrSteerpike]

Getting kinda abrasive in here. [emoji54]

Sent from my SGH-M919V using Tapatalk

 

[Darklord Dave]

Sorry Dave - you probably didn't mean it, but your initial statement comes over as a little patronising dude (needs humour perhaps )

The bit in red is specious at best, or just plain wrong.

I'm unsure about the saving in shipping as I don't know how how much difference a weight of 8lb vs. 40lb makes when it comes to "dimensional weight" price calculations. Do you? (sincere question).

Risk of breakage I can understand, but that's where good packing should come into play.

PVC/vinyl does NOT look "just as good or better" on the Wolf LSB, and I have no reason to believe it will on anything else they produce.

As someone else far wiser than me said earlier in the week "there are several words related to quality that come into play when I think of statues - vinyl & PVC are not among them".

If you like cheap-looking lightweight collectibles that cost more than a polystone equivalent - go for it - but based on responses so far, people that do will be in a VERY small minority.


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Dimensional weight only applies to international shipping doesn't it? (Not sure on that)

As for paint on PVC looking better - check out any 1/6 head from Hot Toys vs any polystone piece. It's not JUST the more complicated paint ops, but how the material takes paint.

Risk of breakage isn't just about shipping. I know that I've broken or scratched polystone pieces just when changing the display around. Especially when trying to move those really heavy pieces.

 

[Pork Chop Express]

I used to have quote a few high-end vinyl figures, Kid Robot stuff and the like. If SSC can really deliver on the final product I wouldn't complain all that much even at $800 when disclosed from the beginning.

 

[slamscaper]

Material will not be what this piece is remembered for. The final mass production execution will be.

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[Collectorcol]

Was that "Aliesha quote" from YOU "chatting" (or emailing?) with her Col?

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Live chat copy & paste

 

[burtial]

Today's Facebook live from Chronicle Collectibles address this materials issue.

And you all do know that it costs a LOT more to make something out of PVC than it does to make it out of polystone? The cost of materials is almost immaterial when considering the source of the molds. PVC requires steel molds - thousands of dollars to produce, rather than silicone molds for resin/polystone.

https://www.facebook.com/chroniclecollectibles/?hc_ref=ARTMi92pXU9dgA5lKLcwUmLQfAmQd_9cBcnkxmDnMIsDws7PuEgRSWnrJncsCgi6AUQ

LOL This argument was used (and failed) in the Wolf Predator thread. See how well that sells to consumers. VERY FEW people will want to spend $800 on a vinyl figure. For years SS have touted "museum quality" pieces.....How many statues in museums are made from soft plastic? And who asked them to spend MORE money making it and thus charging US more for it? Going by your argument, we could have had a heavy, solid Swampy for LESS money...but somehow this is better for the customer. And I get making some of the small pieces that come off the body in PVC, but not the whole body.
Being the plastics guru you are, I'm sure you are also aware of PVC/vinyl statues leaning over time as well...

 

[burtial]

I know that they will not be using the same kind of quality that Funko uses. Its definitely much higher quality as all other materials (wood, metal, cloth) also have higher quality indexes in their respective categories. The fact that it is a much more expensive process says that they are using these materials just for the reasons aforementioned by the rep from sideshow and thought it out. If not they might as well made it from poly stone with a drastic reduction in detail on the piece, save on the manufacturing process and still charge the $800 on top of knowing that fans perceive poly stone as higher quality. Logically looking at it I dont think they are trying to skimp on anything here. The character just requires these types of materials to look what they envision him to be. And Im sure it will have a high quality look, feel and weight knowing they are not making him just out of some low quality **** plastic. And no.. I know I wont be disappointed.

They got you hook line and sinker....Have you held, touched, seen up close or smelled the plastic Wolf Predator? I have. I own it. It's cheap. It has a plastic sheen. It has a plastic smell. And has a plastic feel. And the detailing was if anything WORSE than polystone or resin.

Speaking of which, if plastics are used for exceptional detail why didn't they make the base out of it? The base has great detailing in it WITHOUT the use of plastics.

 

[Sara_au]

The base is resin, I'm sure the details will hold up just fine in the base. Polystone holds details fine, how many detailed polystone statues do people need to see for evidence of that?

Perhaps sideshow should just look into more creative engineering and better quality packaging to eliminate breakage instead of opting to send us vinyl statues.

 

[burtial]

The base is resin, I'm sure the details will hold up just fine in the base. Polystone holds details fine, how many detailed polystone statues do people need to see for evidence of that?

Perhaps sideshow should just look into more creative engineering and better quality packaging to eliminate breakage instead of opting to send us vinyl statues.

EXACTLY.

 

[Pork Chop Express]

The base is resin, I'm sure the details will hold up just fine in the base. Polystone holds details fine, how many detailed polystone statues do people need to see for evidence of that?

Perhaps sideshow should just look into more creative engineering and better quality packaging to eliminate breakage instead of opting to send us vinyl statues.

EXACTLY.

Materials in whatever industry at some point change for any number of reasons in manufacturing. Largely due to cost while maintaining industry standards at current market value.

All projects and execution will always be different.

 

[Heavy Metal Spike]

The base is resin, I'm sure the details will hold up just fine in the base. Polystone holds details fine, how many detailed polystone statues do people need to see for evidence of that?

Perhaps sideshow should just look into more creative engineering and better quality packaging to eliminate breakage instead of opting to send us vinyl statues.

Yup.


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[Heavy Metal Spike]

Live chat copy & paste

Glad it was you Col.

So we have a previously uniformed Sideshow Customer Service rep quoting the website info along with what she had passed on to her from the sales & production folks.

Then we have a previously uninformed newcomer to the forums taking that sales pitch and using it as justification.

Excuse us if some of us that are better informed & know better see straight through that


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[Heavy Metal Spike]

Dimensional weight only applies to international shipping doesn't it? (Not sure on that)

As for paint on PVC looking better - check out any 1/6 head from Hot Toys vs any polystone piece. It's not JUST the more complicated paint ops, but how the material takes paint.

Risk of breakage isn't just about shipping. I know that I've broken or scratched polystone pieces just when changing the display around. Especially when trying to move those really heavy pieces.

"Dimensional weight" - I don't know either dude - maybe I'll try a bit of googling OR calling FedEx tomorrow to see if they can help on this.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the paint thingy - I have hundreds of Vinyl, PVC, Polystone, coldcast resin and various other resin pieces in my collection. It's all down to the quality of the paint + the quality of the painter. Mass-produced or otherwise.

You're right on the "moving stuff" - best not to do this after a couple of bevvies methinks!


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[Heavy Metal Spike]

LOL This argument was used (and failed) in the Wolf Predator thread. See how well that sells to consumers. VERY FEW people will want to spend $800 on a vinyl figure. For years SS have touted "museum quality" pieces.....How many statues in museums are made from soft plastic? And who asked them to spend MORE money making it and thus charging US more for it? Going by your argument, we could have had a heavy, solid Swampy for LESS money...but somehow this is better for the customer. And I get making some of the small pieces that come off the body in PVC, but not the whole body.
Being the plastics guru you are, I'm sure you are also aware of PVC/vinyl statues leaning over time as well...

They got you hook line and sinker....Have you held, touched, seen up close or smelled the plastic Wolf Predator? I have. I own it. It's cheap. It has a plastic sheen. It has a plastic smell. And has a plastic feel. And the detailing was if anything WORSE than polystone or resin.

Speaking of which, if plastics are used for exceptional detail why didn't they make the base out of it? The base has great detailing in it WITHOUT the use of plastics.

That there be my pal Jason - he knows stuff!


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[aa909]

The base is resin, I'm sure the details will hold up just fine in the base. Polystone holds details fine, how many detailed polystone statues do people need to see for evidence of that?

Perhaps sideshow should just look into more creative engineering and better quality packaging to eliminate breakage instead of opting to send us vinyl statues.

exactly. This move away from polystone is to minimize QC variability, shipping weight/cost, and damage during shipping. I've got 25+ PF from SS and 30% have had some level of QC issue that has required replacement of some sort (anywhere from a wolverine hand to an entire bane statue). This all adds up in cost for SS in terms of customer service overhead, replacement parts, shipping to and back etc etc etc... going to PVC and Vinyl will reduce these additional costs IMO and that is the primary driver for SS, it's all about managing the bottom line...

Stick to polystone or you're losing my business.

 

[Heavy Metal Spike]

exactly. This move away from polystone is to minimize QC variability, shipping weight/cost, and damage during shipping. I've got 25+ PF from SS and 30% have had some level of QC issue that has required replacement of some sort (anywhere from a wolverine hand to an entire bane statue). This all adds up in cost for SS in terms of customer service overhead, replacement parts, shipping to and back etc etc etc... going to PVC and Vinyl will reduce these additional costs IMO and that is the primary driver for SS, it's all about managing the bottom line...

Stick to polystone or you're losing my business.

But that's just it - the vast majority of people that WOULD have bought a piece in polystone for this price, WON'T if it's vinyl/PVC.

So they will sell a fraction of what they could have, and THAT will impact their bottom line.

I suspect they made the decision to go the vinyl/PVC route with Swampy BEFORE they got the backlash from the Wolf Predator LSB.

Or maybe they think DC fans are less discerning than Predator/Alien fans (* but responses here so far are in-line with the Wolf feedback *)


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[BlackestNight]

But that's just it - the vast majority of people that WOULD have bought a piece in polystone for this price, WON'T if it's vinyl/PVC.

So they will sell a fraction of what they could have, and THAT will impact their bottom line.

I suspect they made the decision to go the vinyl/PVC route with Swampy BEFORE they got the backlash from the Wolf Predator LSB.

Or maybe they think DC fans are less discerning than Predator/Alien fans (* but responses here so far are in-line with the Wolf feedback *)


.

I think you and others here are severely over estimating the number of people who care. If you look at the number of statues sold compared to the number of people on these forums, boards, and groups it is in no way representative of the market as a whole. The people represented here are the people who care but the others, are your average customer, go to a website, like item, hit "Buy" and never think of it again. Even when it's in hand, if it "looks" like the pictures, no breaks, we're good to go.