Swamp Thing Maquette

[Asdf]

I'm sure if they use vinyl but make price a lot lower, collectors will be ok w its it

 

[xipotec]

View attachment 374490

Long time Vinyl kit builder here.....

The nice thing about vinyl is that it can be heated with a blow dryer or hot water and reshaped by dunking in a cold water bath.

Typically if you heat it the initial cast will snap back, then you can lock it in place with cold....

The point though is what is more expensive ? Polystone or vinyl? And what makes the figure worth the price?

Vinyl is cheap and feels cheap....often looks cheap.....

Polystone feels better , looks better and overall , when I think statue....I think stone.....but breaks.....permanently.

If David had been able to be sculpted in vinyl.....would it be the masterpiece it is today?


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[m.c.d.spargo]

She Hulk are you OK? So, She Hulk are you OK? Are you OK She Hulk?

 

[Sara_au]

Long time Vinyl kit builder here.....

The nice thing about vinyl is that it can be heated with a blow dryer or hot water and reshaped by dunking in a cold water bath.

Typically if you heat it the initial cast will snap back, then you can lock it in place with cold....

The point though is what is more expensive ? Polystone or vinyl? And what makes the figure worth the price?

Vinyl is cheap and feels cheap....often looks cheap.....

Polystone feels better , looks better and overall , when I think statue....I think stone.....but breaks.....permanently.

Yes.

Last summer we got to 39.5° here (103.1 for my American friends) and every one of my statues were fine. I'll definitely leave my air-conditioning on for my dogs but I'm not wearing the cost of climate controlling a statue room for the sake of vinyl statues surviving hot Aussie summers.

 

[careyb]

Hi guys, Im new to this forum..I have been reading all your concerns over the new Sideshow Swamp Thing. And to be honest they were my concerns as well after reading the words vinyl and pvc. Well, I did a little research. I went to their site read again what is was made of, which now says vinyl and resin. Then I researched those materials and found out that many high quality statues are actually made of these materials. I also then chatted with someone at sideshow and expressed my concern over the materials that used for Swamp Thing. This is a transcript of our conversation:

Chat started: 2017-10-27 05:19 PM UTC

(05:19:20 PM) alberto verdi: Hello just wanted to know what kind of resin is the swamp thing going to be made of?
(05:19:30 PM) Sideshow Support: Hang tight, we're running a bit slower than normal. Thanks for your patience!
(05:19:37 PM) alberto verdi: no problem
(05:31:22 PM) *** Aliesha joined the chat ***
(05:31:40 PM) Aliesha: Hi Alberto! Excellent question! Let me see if I can get that information for you
(05:32:07 PM) alberto verdi: thanks
(05:39:04 PM) Aliesha: You are very welcome! Here is what we have listed on the website which gives you an idea of which pieces are going to be made of what, but I'll be happy to answer further questions if you have them
(05:39:06 PM) Aliesha: "The Exclusive edition of the Swamp Thing Maquette includes Cranius of the Un-Men, measuring 4” tall atop a proximity polyresin base that can be displayed near Swamp Thing for an enhanced display. Cranius himself is cast in translucent vinyl, giving this formidable foe of Swamp Thing a detailed, fleshy appearance."
(05:40:50 PM) alberto verdi: So is Cranius made of vinyl and polyresin? what about swamp thing?
(05:42:13 PM) alberto verdi: Im just concerned that swamp thing the main piece is made of just vinyl
(05:42:33 PM) Aliesha: Oops! I forgot the first part of that!
(05:42:41 PM) Aliesha: "The Swamp Thing Maquette measures 24” tall on an environmental polyresin base designed to emulate the muck and mire from which he has emerged. There is a clear water feature beneath his feet, as well as a muddy embankment with trees and various swamp fauna.

Swamp Thing has an intricate tangle of vines, roots, and tendrils emerging from his body, capturing the movement of his ever-changing natural form that balances humanoid musculature with living, growing vegetation. His sturdy body is made with vinyl, with PVC for his smaller parts to capture and preserve the immense detail in each layer of his form."
(05:43:35 PM) Aliesha: So in other words, it's going to be a mix of polyresin as well as vinyl for the more intricate parts such as the detailed vines.
(05:44:39 PM) Aliesha: It will certainly not only be vinyl though. We took this approach in order to capture the detail that wouldn't be able to be achieved in the same way if only done in polystone. This also helps avoid breakage as well.
(05:46:33 PM) alberto verdi: Oh ok, makes me feel better..I just envisioned a weightless piece without any feel of substance and weight to it, you know like a statue is supposed to feel
(05:51:46 PM) Aliesha: Yes, many collectors feel that weight means value, which, at one point, I did too to be honest! Then once it was explained to me by production, it made complete sense on why they use multiple materials. What I was taught in the process of making this piece is that in order to achieve a those realistic edges and wrinkles and areas on the piece that are so detailed, vinyl is the way to go. In fact, this material is far more expensive than polyresin! Which is why the entire piece is actually not made with this material. Additionally, polyresin would make the detail much more fragile, so breakage during transit would be inevitable.
(05:52:33 PM) Aliesha: That's what I understood that weight does not equate value. I'll give you an example as well with two polystone pieces.
(05:55:02 PM) Aliesha: So our Bane statue currently on our website is an extremely large premium format figure due to the character itself. However, this piece is must lighter than our Lex Luthor Premium Format Figure that is a smaller premium format figure. The reason for this is because large muscles and big base actually allow for more cavities, which makes the piece lighter.
(05:55:39 PM) Aliesha: Now our exclusive Bane sold out very quickly, so the value of that still withholds despite the weight.
(05:56:10 PM) Aliesha: To me what determines the value is the execution of the piece itself.
(05:57:43 PM) alberto verdi: Wow, learn something new everyday, not that I was an expert, you definitely eliminated all my concerns about this statue..its definitely gorgeous!..Thank you so much for taking the time to explain it the way you did..you guys are great!
(05:58:07 PM) alberto verdi: You have a great day!

After that I pre-ordered...and you know what I feel good about my decision. Hope this helps those in the same boat of doubts about this piece.

Yeah me too.. I wasn't going to order this either but after much thought I did. I understand using this type of material brings out more detail which I think is particularly important for this statue ... beside it's gonna sit in a shelf or behind glass...also used flex pay.... 8 payments and 92.00 in reward points!



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[careyb]

I know that they will not be using the same kind of quality that Funko uses. Its definitely much higher quality as all other materials (wood, metal, cloth) also have higher quality indexes in their respective categories. The fact that it is a much more expensive process says that they are using these materials just for the reasons aforementioned by the rep from sideshow and thought it out. If not they might as well made it from poly stone with a drastic reduction in detail on the piece, save on the manufacturing process and still charge the $800 on top of knowing that fans perceive poly stone as higher quality. Logically looking at it I dont think they are trying to skimp on anything here. The character just requires these types of materials to look what they envision him to be. And Im sure it will have a high quality look, feel and weight knowing they are not making him just out of some low quality **** plastic. And no.. I know I wont be disappointed.

Well said ... It's all in the details.....!


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[slamscaper]

All this hoopla and my concern is the $90 flex payments. Lol

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[Heavy Metal Spike]

LMAO - some people never learn


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[danny_addick]

What was the hair on WW PF made of? Felt flimsy. Vinyl?

 

[Python]

I know that they will not be using the same kind of quality that Funko uses. Its definitely much higher quality as all other materials (wood, metal, cloth) also have higher quality indexes in their respective categories. The fact that it is a much more expensive process says that they are using these materials just for the reasons aforementioned by the rep from sideshow and thought it out. If not they might as well made it from poly stone with a drastic reduction in detail on the piece, save on the manufacturing process and still charge the $800 on top of knowing that fans perceive poly stone as higher quality. Logically looking at it I dont think they are trying to skimp on anything here. The character just requires these types of materials to look what they envision him to be. And Im sure it will have a high quality look, feel and weight knowing they are not making him just out of some low quality **** plastic. And no.. I know I wont be disappointed.

Out of interest, how do you know this? I have the Wolf Predator sat in front of me as I type this, I also have a few very cheap little plastic items. And I genuinely can't tell any difference in the feel. I also doubt that the difference in detail would be "drastic" were this made of polystone. I appreciate some people are trying to convince themselves to buy this which is perfectly fine. I appreciate these kind of struggles in the hobby now, I do the same myself with the price points on some items. But people are acting like this is the first complex sculpt we've ever seen and there's no alternative to it being a giant plastic figure. Is the Prime 1 version plastic? Genuine question as I don't know. What I do know is that we've seen two high profile PVC items from Sideshow, the MOS PF, and the Wolf Predator LSB. Both were absolutely destroyed by their respective customers and both shipped with visible seems lines (unforgivable at this level of collectables) And neither are known to be of a high quality. Oh and the Wolf lost a fair amount of detail so that reason is questionable at least...

 

[Heavy Metal Spike]

Out of interest, how do you know this? I have the Wolf Predator sat in front of me as I type this, I also have a few very cheap little plastic items. And I genuinely can't tell any difference in the feel. I also doubt that the difference in detail would be "drastic" were this made of polystone. I appreciate some people are trying to convince themselves to buy this which is perfectly fine. I appreciate these kind of struggles in the hobby now, I do the same myself with the price points on some items. But people are acting like this is the first complex sculpt we've ever seen and there's no alternative to it being a giant plastic figure. Is the Prime 1 version plastic? Genuine question as I don't know. What I do know is that we've seen two high profile PVC items from Sideshow, the MOS PF, and the Wolf Predator LSB. Both were absolutely destroyed by their respective customers and both shipped with visible seems lines (unforgivable at this level of collectables) And neither are known to be of a high quality. Oh and the Wolf lost a fair amount of detail so that reason is questionable at least...

That "asoundwave" dude doesn't know squat Matt.

Glad it was you Col.

So we have a previously uniformed Sideshow Customer Service rep quoting the website info along with what she had passed on to her from the sales & production folks.

Then we have a previously uninformed newcomer to the forums taking that sales pitch and using it as justification.

Excuse us if some of us that are better informed & know better see straight through that


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[Ninja]

the "feel" of the product is important to me.

certain words pop to mind when I hear the word "statue"....and vinyl is not one of them.

Well said. I agree.

 

[burtial]

Out of interest, how do you know this? I have the Wolf Predator sat in front of me as I type this, I also have a few very cheap little plastic items. And I genuinely can't tell any difference in the feel. I also doubt that the difference in detail would be "drastic" were this made of polystone. I appreciate some people are trying to convince themselves to buy this which is perfectly fine. I appreciate these kind of struggles in the hobby now, I do the same myself with the price points on some items. But people are acting like this is the first complex sculpt we've ever seen and there's no alternative to it being a giant plastic figure. Is the Prime 1 version plastic? Genuine question as I don't know. What I do know is that we've seen two high profile PVC items from Sideshow, the MOS PF, and the Wolf Predator LSB. Both were absolutely destroyed by their respective customers and both shipped with visible seems lines (unforgivable at this level of collectables) And neither are known to be of a high quality. Oh and the Wolf lost a fair amount of detail so that reason is questionable at least...

As an owner of Wolf Pred, I agree with all of this. I would love for someone who has been arguing for vinyl to offer a counter to these points. In fact, I'll go one further....I'd love for someone from SS to make an educated post about how vinyl statues are so much better than poly, and how we as consumers are wrong in our thoughts of it being, feeling and looking cheap. And how they do not lean over time if unbalanced (which Swampy looks mighty large on top, and small on the bottom). The door is open for you to enlighten us.

That being said, I may order this piece regardless just because I am a huge fan of Swampy, and I'm willing to over-pay for this piece. But if I do, it's under no delusion that others here share about how fabulous $820 vinyl statues are. I know what I'm getting, I know I am WAY over-paying, and am prepared for a full repaint.

 

[xipotec]

IMO
I think a statue should be a heavy object. And for the price , polystone feels more valuable. It’s all in aesthetics.

I said this before ....do you want the statue of David made of wood or Marble?

Vinyl can look great, but it feels cheap and plastic....anyone who picks up a polystone would appreciate the feel of it....they pic up a vinyl and it would lessen the impact of the piece.

Having worked with vinyl in models for years it looks fine. I always added plaster/and to my vinyl to give it a weight.

So basically vinyl feels cheap, polystone does not.


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[MrSteerpike]

As an owner of Wolf Pred, I agree with all of this. I would love for someone who has been arguing for vinyl to offer a counter to these points. In fact, I'll go one further....I'd love for someone from SS to make an educated post about how vinyl statues are so much better than poly, and how we as consumers are wrong in our thoughts of it being, feeling and looking cheap. And how they do not lean over time if unbalanced (which Swampy looks mighty large on top, and small on the bottom). The door is open for you to enlighten us.

That being said, I may order this piece regardless just because I am a huge fan of Swampy, and I'm willing to over-pay for this piece. But if I do, it's under no delusion that others here share about how fabulous $820 vinyl statues are. I know what I'm getting, I know I am WAY over-paying, and am prepared for a full repaint.

There's an easy and cheap solution to the "heft" since you've already said the price isn't the issue and your not worried about getting your hands a bit dirty.

You can drill a couple of small holes into him and fill him up with "Great Stuff" (an expanding foam" that hardens. It also will give it some strength and prevent it from leaning over time.

Just a thought.

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[xipotec]

There's an easy and cheap solution to the "heft" since you've already said the price isn't the issue and your not worried about getting your hands a bit dirty.

You can drill a couple of small holes into him and fill him up with "Great Stuff" (an expanding foam" that hardens. It also will give it some strength and prevent it from leaning over time.

Just a thought.

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Great stuff expands and also heats as it goes , use too much and your likely to warp it.

Good old fashioned plaster is safer.

 

[Heavy Metal Spike]

Great stuff expands and also heats as it goes , use too much and your likely to warp it.

Good old fashioned plaster is safer.

Very true.

But a little at a time.


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[It's Sisko]

Ok guys, here's a fun little tid bit of info for anyone who thinks vinyl will produce a better looking final product than polystone. Someone I know e-mailed Sideshow about Swamp Thing and got the following reply. They gave me permission to re-post it. I have bolded my favourite part. The same factory that made the Alien Internecivus Raptus is the one that is making Swamp Thing.

Anyone who is on the fence about Swamp Thing, I encourage you to find somewhere to see the Internecivus Raptus in person. I'm a huge Alien/Predator collector, but I would never buy the Internecivus Raptus for ANY amount of money. It looks like a big piece of shiny plastic. The fact that Sideshow saw the production on that piece and decided to have any more products made there leaves me scratching my head. But at the same time, they basically say why. It was because of "The limited amount of product breaks". Even though it was poorly received, they saved money on the Internecivus Raptus because they were plastic and didn't break.

If you can find a way to see/or have seen the Internecivus Raptus in person and think it looks good, then you will most likely be happy with Swamp Thing since they are using the same factory and process. I'm not going to mince words. I thought it looked like a $400 plastic toy.

For those of you who still want him, I genuinely hope hope Swamp Thing comes out looking better than the Internecivus Raptus did. Perhaps since Swamp Thing is meant to look wet, the plastic shine won't be so noticeable.

The amount of time and effort that went into Paul Komoda’s traditional sculpt, combined with the amazing paint from our in-house team, required we looked at different materials than we’d normally use to preserve both the artist’s intent and the ability for us to get it to the collector as expected.

We are working with a high-end factory who have spent many years perfecting the capture of the prototype detail in vinyl. We worked with them on other pieces like the Internecivus Raptus and were very impressed with their ability to mix resin, vinyl and PVC rather seamlessly on the final product. The limited amount of product breaks coupled with executed final product encouraged us to deliver a safer product that retained the details of the prototype just as effectively in vinyl, if not better than resin. Pair the ability to more accurately match the sculpt with a very well executed paint application across the run – we knew this was they direction for some of our complex pieces in the future. Our statues will all have some manner of resin but we will only really proceed with vinyl when it allows us to safely deliver and execute a product that best replicates the intent of the original master prototype.

The costs related to doing that are not cheaper than if we would have gone all polystone. In fact they are more expensive overall in actual amortized production costs. Plastic is most cost effective for production when handling in volume, large volume. (Think mass produced items appearing in stores internationally – Target, Hot Topic, etc) Since our product is low run, it is significantly more expensive for us to produce. Any cost saving is coming from not having to replace broken resin/polystone parts on the more fragile pieces as well as keeping the weight controlled so the shipping costs are more inclusive to an international audience

With any changes to the materials we use in our items, there are going to be some pot-holes along the way. We’re sensitive to working harder to make sure issues related to these materials are accounted for in the future…seams, separate pieces not being fused together well, paint cracking/chipping, etc.

A lot of the issues we’re facing related to materials has to do with communication – which is 100% my wheelhouse. We simply haven’t done a good enough job on the education front. We should not only be VERY clear up front on what materials we expect to use for an item, we should also make sure we are updating collectors on any changes/adjustments on that front.

A few weeks back, we decided to take three steps that should help alleviate that in the future.

You’ll notice on all product pages (moving forward – the old pages will get updates shortly) – there will be a clear indicator of ‘materials’ on the product page.
In addition, we published a referential help desk article on the materials we do use, and why. Sideshow.com/materials
We’ll have a series in the blog coming up on each type of material as well – with examples and images, etc."

The point though is what is more expensive ? Polystone or vinyl? And what makes the figure worth the price?

Vinyl is cheap and feels cheap....often looks cheap.....

Polystone feels better , looks better and overall , when I think statue....I think stone.....but breaks.....permanently.

If David had been able to be sculpted in vinyl.....would it be the masterpiece it is today?

This is pretty much how I feel. Sideshow has been repeatedly saying that vinyl is more expensive, but it doesn't matter if it LOOKS cheaper. I honestly don't care if vinyl costs 10 times as much as polystone if it looks cheaper on my shelf. I don't care about weight either, since materials can be high quality material and weigh almost nothing such as fibreglass. I sold my Wonder Woman PF because I couldn't get over how cheap the plastic shield and accessories on the base looked. It wasn't about how much those parts cost to make or how much they weighed. They simply looked cheap.

One last thing. Sideshow has also repeatedly said that polystone can't capture the detail, but I took a few screenshots of a Swamp Thing being pulled from a silicone mould in the "inside look video". A silicone mould means this cast is made of polystone, and the detail looks pretty damn good to me.

 

[Sara_au]

"The limited amount of product breaks coupled with executed final product encouraged us to deliver a safer product that retained the details of the prototype just as effectively in vinyl, if not better than resin. Pair the ability to more accurately match the sculpt with a very well executed paint application across the run – we knew this was they direction for some of our complex pieces in the future. Our statues will all have some manner of resin but we will only really proceed with vinyl when it allows us to safely deliver and execute a product that best replicates the intent of the original master prototype."

This worries me, I'm either interpreting this wrong or vinyl will, increasingly, be the way of the future.

Not sure if it has been mentioned but Prime 1 is producing their Swamp Thing in polystone. Straight from the horses mouth, I asked them.
Prime 1 can hardly be faulted for lack of detail in their pieces, if they believe they can do it in polystone I'm sure they will.

This whole thing has breakage mitigation written all over it.

I hope it turns out well for those that have ordered, that they get what they want and that lessons have been learned from previous fiascos.

 

[darkeyes]

With less of a fear of breakage, why do I think eBay will have $300 recasts of this? Would be a fun statue to paint. Not that I am encouraging it, though.