Terminator Genisys (July 1st, 2015)

[cmiller99]

I agree with Clown Prince and a-dev, the use of the Terminator theme there was eye rolling.

The CGI Arnold looks OK to me but the side on shot where he ran at the Old T-800 at the end of the clip made me laugh.

Naked Arnold fighting + Old Arnold fighting = unintentional comedy.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Naked Arnold fighting + Old Arnold fighting = unintentional comedy.

The gifts just keep coming.

It's like some people got sequestered in a room with one single mission: to utterly destroy the Terminator franchise once and for all.

This could do to Terminator what Alien 4 did to the Alien franchise.

At least until Terminator vs Predator.

 

[ishothimsixtimes]

I agree with Clown Prince and a-dev, the use of the Terminator theme there was eye rolling.

The CGI Arnold looks OK to me but the side on shot where he ran at the Old T-800 at the end of the clip made me laugh.

Naked Arnold fighting + Old Arnold fighting = unintentional comedy.

They may as well have gone the whole hog. Have ancient Arnie's attire get ripped off in the ensuing struggle and then stage the remainder of the fight like a balls out rematch of Borat V Azamat Bagatov.

 

[a-dev]

^

This would have been so much cooler if young Arnie was wearing the Tech Noir outfit. I guess they really wanted that ''you won't need any clothes'' line in there. Also if they played that scene through to its conclusion there'd have been a curse word (!!) and a punk with his innards all over the place. We couldn't have that.

 

[DiFabio]

It would have made more sense if they just let the original T-800 do his thing, kill the punks and get his clothes. Let the scene playout.


Then have the old man guardian T-800 meet up with him at the first Sarah Connor victim's house and have a confrontation there. Like right as he's about to go knock on the door, Pops shows up and stops him. At least then it would be plausible that "Pops" and Sarah knew where to find the T-800 sent back to 1984 instead of just knowing to go to the observation area at that point and time the T-800 takes the punk clothes.

A shoot out in that neighborhood between Pops and the T-800 in his punk outfit would be way cooler than a quick slug fest where we know the naked T-800 is going to get it's ass kicked.

 

[a-dev]

It would have made more sense if they just let the original T-800 do his thing, kill the punks and get his clothes. Let the scene playout.


Then have the old man guardian T-800 meet up with him at the first Sarah Connor victim's house and have a confrontation there. Like right as he's about to go knock on the door, Pops shows up and stops him. At least then it would be plausible that "Pops" and Sarah knew where to find the T-800 sent back to 1984 instead of just knowing to go to the observation area at that point and time the T-800 takes the punk clothes.

A shoot out in that neighborhood between Pops and the T-800 in his punk outfit would be way cooler than a quick slug fest where we know the naked T-800 is going to get it's ass kicked.

**** yes. I mean, messing with the original film continuity still might not sit well but this sounds like a much better idea. How in the hell do they know where he first arrives in 1984. The deaths of those 2 other Sarah Connors made televised news whereas no one in the future would have been looking for records of ''1984: Street thug murdered and pal's clothes stolen''

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I agree that a dressed T 800 would look cooler, but it makes sense to take out the Terminator before he gets a car and he's armed to the teeth, so strategically speaking, getting him as soon as he arrives before he kills innocent people is the best option. But the question remains, how do they know his location? If they can answer that question, then I don't see a problem, other than the punks not wearing the right outfits or hair styles, and the terminator theme playing when the oldhundred shows up.

 

[jye4ever]

Some computer some where provided the location answer, you'll see

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Some computer somehere provided the location answer, you'll see

For the low price of $4,999

Well, they also know Kyle Reese's location.

 

[jye4ever]

Can that play Arkham Knight.

 

[a-dev]

I agree that a dressed T 800 would look cooler, but it makes sense to take out the Terminator before he gets a car and he's armed to the teeth, so strategically speaking, getting him as soon as he arrives before he kills innocent people is the best option. But the question remains, how do they know his location? If they can answer that question, then I don't see a problem, other than the punks not wearing the right outfits or hair styles, and the terminator theme playing when the oldhundred shows up.

Good points but then again it equally makes sense to arm yourself to the teeth so you can deal with the situation with as little risk as possible - Pops brings a single shotgun.

Anyway, a thought I've since had on how they know the location of where the 1984 T-800 arrives and where Reese arrives - there must be some capability of being precise with the time-displacement machine - you have to know that you aren't teleporting your Terminator or resistance soldier into concrete, into an ocean or 500 feet in the air. So, if there's a means to ensure that the time bubble will appear above ground but not too far above ground that the time traveller will suffer a fatal fall, then perhaps there's a means to choose a known location? Therefore this location will be a known thing and perhaps programmed into Pops.....

that said I still prefer Difabio's idea. The rationalisation that they want to find the '84 800 before he gets his clothes and weapons and before he kills anyone is good but the writers sabotage it themselves by having Pops tackle the other Terminator with a gun that he knows will do **** all damage to a T-800.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Good points but then again it equally makes sense to arm yourself to the teeth so you can deal with the situation with as little risk as possible - Pops brings a single shotgun.

Anyway, a thought I've since had on how they know the location of where the 1984 T-800 arrives and where Reese arrives - there must be some capability of being precise with the time-displacement machine - you have to know that you aren't teleporting your Terminator or resistance soldier into concrete, into an ocean or 500 feet in the air. So, if there's a means to ensure that the time bubble will appear above ground but not too far above ground that the time traveller will suffer a fatal fall, then perhaps there's a means to choose a known location? Therefore this location will be a known thing and perhaps programmed into Pops.....

that said I still prefer Difabio's idea. The rationalisation that they want to find the '84 800 before he gets his clothes and weapons and before he kills anyone is good but the writers sabotage it themselves by having Pops tackle the other Terminator with a gun that he knows will do **** all damage to a T-800.

It's a huge city. How would he know the exact location? Reese lands on a alley...could be any alley in LA. I also think it makes more sense to wait for the young t800 in the first Sarah Connor house, even if a few people get kill, and I get why he's using a shotgun, because that's like he's signature weapon, but you're right, it's not very effective. As far as knowing the location goes, in this film Sarah Connor was raised by the Old T800, so she's a different Sarah Connor than she was in the original film, which means she's not a young waitress and they're in a different timeline. Perhaps, in this timeline when Pops was sent to protect young Sarah, he also got the location of the young 84 T800 and Kyle Reese? But how would they know that in the future?

 

[a-dev]

It's a huge city. How would he know the exact location? Reese lands on a alley...could be any alley in LA. I also think it makes more sense to wait for the young t800 in the first Sarah Connor house, even if a few people get kill, and I get why he's using a shotgun, because that's like he's signature weapon, but you're right, it's not very effective. As far as knowing the location goes, in this film Sarah Connor was raised by the Old T800, so she's a different Sarah Connor than she was in the original film, so that means sh'e not a young waitress, she's tough and trained by the oldhundred because this is a different timeline...I guess. Perhaps, in this timeline when Pops was sent to protect young Sarah , he also got the location of the young 84 T800 and Kyle Reese? But how would they know that in the future?

That's the thing, maybe they can program exact co-ordinates into the time-displacement machine. If it's possible to do that, and I think it ought to be for the reasons mentioned in my last post, then they (in 2029) do know exactly where the T-800 will arrive and exactly where they've sent Reese. The Pops-800 must somehow have this information - either by personally witnessing it all go down before he himself was sent through time or simply by being programmed with this knowledge. He is then sent to 1973 (?) to deal with this new attack on child Sarah Connor all the while knowing exactly where he must be in 1984 to tackle that old threat....but for some reason not bothering to adequately prepare. That would be my guess anyway.

 

[DiFabio]

When Kyle Reese arrives in the alley, he falls pretty far. I believe the stunt double laid on a plank about 8 feet up in the air and had to land perfectly in frame when they pulled it out from underneath him. That could kill or cripple someone if they landed the wrong way.


In the first film, I don't think you would be able to control or track where the traveller arrived. In Cameron's original screenplay, Kyle doesn't go back alone, another soldier goes with him. They arrive in the same alley way from the film, but the second soldier is fused into the cement and some of the catwalk. He's suffering and tells Reese to go on without him. I can't remember if Kyle mercy kills him before taking the bum's dirty pants or not, but the second soldier does die.

For Terminator 2, since everything is more technologically advanced thanks to the T-800 arm and chip, we have advanced prototypes like the T-1000 and that cocoon sphere that melts through cement, brick, and fences to protect the time traveller against the elements when they arrive.

 

[a-dev]

When Kyle Reese arrives in the alley, he falls pretty far. I believe the stunt double laid on a plank about 8 feet up in the air and had to land perfectly in frame when they pulled it out from underneath him. That could kill or cripple someone if they landed the wrong way.


In the first film, I don't think you would be able to control or track where the traveller arrived. In Cameron's original screenplay, Kyle doesn't go back alone, another soldier goes with him. They arrive in the same alley way from the film, but the second soldier is fused into the cement and some of the catwalk. He's suffering and tells Reese to go on without him. I can't remember if Kyle mercy kills him before taking the bum's dirty pants or not, but the second soldier does die.

For Terminator 2, since everything is more technologically advanced thanks to the T-800 arm and chip, we have advanced prototypes like the T-1000 and that cocoon sphere that melts through cement, brick, and fences to protect the time traveller against the elements when they arrive.

I think you could put Kyle's fall down to a slight misjudgement though. And as for the other soldier sent with him in the original screenplay - I thought of that but since it isn't in the film I don't consider it canon. It wasn't even filmed.

And yes the time sphere does displace any physical matter it comes into contact with but if your sphere ends up 15 feet below ground you're still gonna die (if you're human) so there still needs to be a certain precision as to where it will materialise - including geographical location. Now...how the hell ''materialise at this particular time, at pavement level on this particular street of this particular city etc etc'' gets programmed into a machine is another thing but as time travel is innately absurd anyway I assume it can be.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

When Kyle Reese arrives in the alley, he falls pretty far. I believe the stunt double laid on a plank about 8 feet up in the air and had to land perfectly in frame when they pulled it out from underneath him. That could kill or cripple someone if they landed the wrong way.


In the first film, I don't think you would be able to control or track where the traveller arrived. In Cameron's original screenplay, Kyle doesn't go back alone, another soldier goes with him. They arrive in the same alley way from the film, but the second soldier is fused into the cement and some of the catwalk. He's suffering and tells Reese to go on without him. I can't remember if Kyle mercy kills him before taking the bum's dirty pants or not, but the second soldier does die.

For Terminator 2, since everything is more technologically advanced thanks to the T-800 arm and chip, we have advanced prototypes like the T-1000 and that cocoon sphere that melts through cement, brick, and fences to protect the time traveller against the elements when they arrive.

Fused into the cement? That's straight out of the Philadelphia experiment. They should have left that in film. Maybe they didn't have the budget to do it, but you have a good point about the way Reese landed. The T800 landed perfectly on the ground, but Reese just fell on his back from the sky, so that wasn't perfectly planned, but maybe it has something to do with his weight and also him being human, which explains why the T800 looks fine, but Reese is all burned and in pain. Maybe the T800 can control how he lands?

 

[stshammgod]

I don't think all pops has is a shotgun. They deliberately went there to take out that t-800, so I'm betting they are holding back on just how they take him out of commission. I'm willing to give this a shot, but I'm also fully ready to admit that this movie was a bad move.

 

[DiFabio]

I think you could put Kyle's fall down to a slight misjudgement though. And as for the other soldier sent with him in the original screenplay - I thought of that but since it isn't in the film I don't consider it canon. It wasn't even filmed.

And yes the time sphere does displace any physical matter it comes into contact with but if your sphere ends up 15 feet below ground you're still gonna die (if you're human) so there still needs to be a certain precision as to where it will materialise.

Oh, I don't consider the other soldier being canon either, but I do think the point of the original was that the time travelers were sent to random destinations, well, Reese anyway. He lands hard. In my mind, there was nothing to protect him from fusing to the environment (unlike the T2 spheres that melt anything in it's path for protection) and he could have very well arrived 30 feet in the air as opposed to just 8.

It makes the situation much more perilous for Reese and a risky plan for Connor and the Resistace. I like the idea that there's a risk that Kyle Reese could have been trapped inside a wall or fell to his death and be mistaken for a suicide jumper, leaving the Terminator, alone, with Sarah Connor in 1984. The original script, and even the final film has this feel of despair and treacherous dangers to it, from the rag tag future soldiers getting blown to bits to little kids playing/hunting rats, most likely to eat. I'd like to think that sending Reese and later, the reprogrammed T-800 (thanks to the events in T1) is a risky juncture. Knowing RIGHT where your soldier or machine is arriving kind of defeats that. I mean, LA is totally leveled. How would Skynet or the resistance remember the exact terrain and building locations from 45 years ago? I suppose Skynet could have files from developmental projects and maps from the past (assuming they weren't destroyed in the nuclear fire) but the resistance? They'd be taking shots in the dark. I guess Skynet, being an all thinking being might know where it sent the '84 T-800 and the T-1000 even though it was a last ditch effort, but I like to think that for Connor's technicians, they didn't fully understand the equipment they were using. For all they knew, Kyle might not even survive the trip. The original screenplay for T2 goes into all this, Connor even tells Reese to put his faith into the machine (the time travel equipment) because he's afraid to step out into the abyss.


I doubt Genisys dabbles in any of this. It's going to be a sterile and safe hollywood movie. They'll probably have exposition in the beginning that tells the audience that they're plugging in exact coordinates to the locations or Pops has files on everything from every point and time. Or hell, maybe not have a reason for any of it at all.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Pops has files on everything from every point and time.

It seems that with each new film the T 800 has more and more detail files and is an expert on everything, except smiling Wasn't he also a marriage counselor expert in T3?

 

[DiFabio]

Yeah, in T3 the T-850 said something like John and Kate's chemistry was good and that they were at a ripe age for breeding or some ****. Really weird.


Detailed files on human anatomy (for homicidal purposes obviously) and the origins of Skynet, Cyberdyne and Dyson is one thing, but all that other junk like psychology, marriage/breeding (or whatever the **** he says) is silly. I expect the same antics in this one. Hell, I think there's a time placement device in 1984. I bet this Pops T-800 is an expert in time travel and even built the ****ing thing!