Terminator Genisys (July 1st, 2015)

[Glennfett]

The Force Awakens shall be THIS years box office winner!

 

[a-dev]

Started my Terminator marathon with Salvation. Can someone please tell me WTF is wrong with this movie? Why does it get bashed? I find it so fresh and original. The previous three had the same format where Salvation dared to bring new ideas into the universe! I personally enjoyed it. The action is unique as it is not over done but just perfect.

Once I read this there was no going back:

Downfall Of Terminator: All That is Wrong with Terminator: Salvation


Just....it was a waste. An attempt to turn the future war into an unnecessarily long trilogy of films where a single good film would have sufficed. Wasting time on some new character that has never been heard of before just because they felt they needed to persist with the idea of one 'good' Terminator. Humans against machines should have been the order of the day, to help create the sense of desperation that T1 had. Marcus, the T-850 and now Pops just cheapens the whole idea of a reprogrammed Terminator, which was a pretty cool idea that worked very well the first time. But dishing it out again and again and again, lame.
And by attempting to structure it as a trilogy it meant leaving out all the juicy stuff that people really wanted to see, saving it presumably for the third film which would never happen because no one cared about the first one. Very frustrating.

Hilariously, Genisys is also supposed to be part of a new trilogy. Maybe they're gonna go ahead with it regardless of the critic and fan reaction this time? If they can afford to do that then fair ****s to them, but otherwise they are being ridiculously over-optimistic.

 

[jye4ever]

I own Transformers 1 but not Salvation.

Megan Fox > Female Skynet

 

[karamazov80]

Once I read this there was no going back:

Downfall Of Terminator: All That is Wrong with Terminator: Salvation


Just....it was a waste. An attempt to turn the future war into an unnecessarily long trilogy of films where a single good film would have sufficed. Wasting time on some new character that has never been heard of before just because they felt they needed to persist with the idea of one 'good' Terminator. Humans against machines should have been the order of the day, to help create the sense of desperation that T1 had. Marcus, the T-850 and now Pops just cheapens the whole idea of a reprogrammed Terminator, which was a pretty cool idea that worked very well the first time. But dishing it out again and again and again, lame.
And by attempting to structure it as a trilogy it meant leaving out all the juicy stuff that people really wanted to see, saving it presumably for the third film which would never happen because no one cared about the first one. Very frustrating.

Hilariously, Genisys is also supposed to be part of a new trilogy. Maybe they're gonna go ahead with it regardless of the critic and fan reaction this time? If they can afford to do that then fair ****s to them, but otherwise they are being ridiculously over-optimistic.

I'm sure you can pick apart Salvation in about a thousand ways. But ultimately, for me, it fails because it isn't compelling. There was not much interesting drama or conflict, the action wasn't very good or memorable, and the acting seemed competent, but again, forgettable. I didn't think it was terrible as some here do, I just thought it was mediocre. And I didn't care much because I had already written the franchise off after T3. The only thing I remember liking about it at all was the guy playing Reese. I thought he did a great job.

 

[jye4ever]

Too geeky looking to be bad ass Reese.

 

[toyrewind]

Is Matt Smith out of this movie? I didn't even see him in the premiere photos with the other casts.

50 Photos from the Terminator Genisys Premiere - ComingSoon.net

 

[karamazov80]

Too geeky looking to be bad ass Reese.

He was supposed to be a young Reese though, who wasn't quite as beaten down and grizzled as Biehn. Or at least, that's what I thought watching it. He had the essence down, which was more important than looks to me anyway.

 

[Ash Housewares]

"Wow. This movie is awful and Cameron is a tool. This is an insult to the Terminator series and if I were him I would have been livid at what they have done. Worst film I've ever seen. " This is what I expect to say after I have watched it ILLEGALLY. No way I am paying to see this dross.

 

[Khev]

I watched Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines last night. Again, like The Lost World it was the first time watching it from beginning to end in over 10 years.

I was shocked to find that it has aged incredibly well. I don't even see why it'd need to be "ignored." It certainly works as a respectable follow-up to T2. Arnold looked great and his Terminator was cool. John being protected by his own killer? Brilliant!

Other highlights:

1. Solid acting all around.
2. Great action sequences
3. While it did repeat a couple gags like the broken sunglasses it actually did NOT repeat anyone saying "Come with me if you want to live," and most shockingly "I'll be back." I couldn't believe that neither of those lines were uttered. Sure Arnold said "She'll be back," and "I'm back," both technically those are NOT his catchphrase. Bravo to Mostow for not having gratuitous repeats of the most obvious lines of dialogue.
4. The crane truck flip. The Dark Knight totally copied it! The cable that is secretly attached, the loud rumbling followed by a split second of silence and a look of surprise by the driver, then of course the famous "front flip." Everyone is going off about the bus flip in Genisys copying TDK. Nope, it's just repeating the gag from T3 which TDK *also* copied.
5. Arnold determining that John is bluffing about killing himself by reading his facial features, pupil dilation, etc. Ava did this recently in Ex Machina. Very cool, and Ex Machina is a MUCH better movie, but T3 did it first.
6. Getting to see Skynet go live and become self aware seconds later. I actually liked the "global super virus" as an explanation for the US military turning it on before they felt it was really "ready." Also the system going live and then abruptly shutting down the monitors. Ultron did the same thing when he became self aware! Once again, T3 did it first.
7. I liked how the rampaging T1's mirrored the police shootout.
8. The whole "there isn't enough time" tension throughout the second half of the film. In T1 and T2 all the global turmoil happens "a few years from now" and all anyone needs to worry about is the immediate threat of one killer robot. But in T3 it's quite the bombshell that "this whole place" is going to be "gone" in just two hours and 53 minutes. And no one else knows it. Kinda freaky.
9. The T-850. He's all tactics and I love it. And he isn't gentle or really even nice. He just does what he's programmed to do and that's it. I don't even know that he repeats the "good Terminator" routine of T2. Uncle Bob really did seem good to me. Even though he was a machine, he still played as "good." T-850 was just going through the motions of carrying out his programming. And he deceived John and Sarah. He "won," both as a killer Terminator and as a protector whose programming to preserve their lives trumped their wishes of preserving everyone's lives. So in a way he was still an agent of Skynet, a harbinger of the Apocalypse because he did nothing to prevent the machines from having their Day. I thought that was a pretty awesome take on his character and really kept the film separate from both previous films and gave a nice edgy feel to the story. John thanks him at the end and the Terminator responds by reminding him don't worry we'll see each other again when I murder you? Damn...
10. The TX's killings really did bring back an element of horror to the story.

I'll stop there.

Cons:

1. Obviously "talk to the hand" and the pink sunglasses. Yes those were both "stupid," but...Arnold didn't play the T-850 as being "in" on the jokes. He played the hand and the sunglasses as just another tactic for his consideration. He went with the "hand" thing, decided the sunglasses were inappropriate and ditched them. A dumb "ha ha" moment for the audience, but HE wasn't turning and winking at the camera or anything so you can really take it as someone putting a silly hat on a rottweiler or something. The dog doesn't know it looks ridiculous and might still be prone to ripping your throat out.

2. Some handwaving is required to make sense of his programming. Obviously he was programmed to follow Katherine Brewster's commands but he ignored her demands to set her free from the back of the pickup truck. You could say it's a plot hole or that, like self-terminating, he can only follow her commands up to a certain point.

3. Bad TX tactics in the cemetary. The whole dropping the disguise from 30 yards away. Obviously she would have killed Catherine if the T-850 didn't show up but still, no reason for her to do that.

Honestly, not really much else to criticize than that. Which to my mind makes it a pretty damn solid chapter in the story and not in need of being dismissed. Even having John played by a different actor kind of lends itself to the notion of "John 1, John 2," etc., that some of us have enjoyed theorizing about in these threads.

 

[a-dev]

It's a bit of a commitment to read this but I think it hits just about every nail on the head.

Downfall Of Terminator: All That is Wrong with Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines


Though I agree that Arnie still looked very good in it.

 

[Khev]

It's a bit of a commitment to read this but I think it hits just about every nail on the head.

Downfall Of Terminator: All That is Wrong with Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines

I skimmed it but it looked like that was just nitpicks galore. But I did forget about the blood orgasm thing. Totally silly.

Did you not read my post? Do you disagree with what I listed as the film's good qualities?

 

[ali032373]

The TV show was also crap. Was that part of the canon? A hot terminator comes back to protect John Connor in high school??? TOTAL BS.

At some point because you're dealing with time travel, the writing starts to trip over its own 2 feet. It gets super messy from a story telling perspective.

I had hopes for Salvation, which was medicore. But here's the biggest reason why I think the franchise is dead: 1) T1 was a dark, R rated, violent, noir movie with no expectations. It got to be what it wanted. No Hollywood execs looking to make tons of summer money. When in got popular came T2. So 2) it's already maxed itself out with dollars and big budget stuff while still remaining a kick ass movie. I don't think you get to keep doing that over and over. And no Hollywood exec wants a rated R action movie anymore so you can't do that either.

So it maxed out at T2. 3 and 4 were just attempts to catch lighting in a bottle again (money) from T2. T3 should have been about Connor fighting a desperate war to prevent the eradication of the human race. The flash forwards in T1 show humans eating rats and getting slaughtered on the battlefield. It really conveyed the sense that this was losing battle. A f'n goldmine of a story if allowed to be told in that T1 style. But everything now is PG-13 so you can take the kids and they can make more money. And in the process, the story suffers. Rant over.

 

[a-dev]

I skimmed it but it looked like that was just nitpicks galore. But I did forget about the blood orgasm thing. Totally silly.

Did you not read my post? Do you disagree with what I listed as the film's good qualities?

I did read and will read again later. I'm in work and it was simply easier to post that article as it details everything I hate about T3, there's a lot of good points amongst the nitpickery. Not to say that your post doesn't warrant consideration though so I'll go back to it later.

 

[Matt S]

haters gonna hate

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I watched Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines last night. Again, like The Lost World it was the first time watching it from beginning to end in over 10 years.

I was shocked to find that it has aged incredibly well. I don't even see why it'd need to be "ignored." It certainly works as a respectable follow-up to T2. Arnold looked great and his Terminator was cool. John being protected by his own killer? Brilliant!

Other highlights:

1. Solid acting all around.
2. Great action sequences
3. While it did repeat a couple gags like the broken sunglasses it actually did NOT repeat anyone saying "Come with me if you want to live," and most shockingly "I'll be back." I couldn't believe that neither of those lines were uttered. Sure Arnold said "She'll be back," and "I'm back," both technically those are NOT his catchphrase. Bravo to Mostow for not having gratuitous repeats of the most obvious lines of dialogue.
4. The crane truck flip. The Dark Knight totally copied it! The cable that is secretly attached, the loud rumbling followed by a split second of silence and a look of surprise by the driver, then of course the famous "front flip." Everyone is going off about the bus flip in Genisys copying TDK. Nope, it's just repeating the gag from T3 which TDK *also* copied.
5. Arnold determining that John is bluffing about killing himself by reading his facial features, pupil dilation, etc. Ava did this recently in Ex Machina. Very cool, and Ex Machina is a MUCH better movie, but T3 did it first.
6. Getting to see Skynet go live and become self aware seconds later. I actually liked the "global super virus" as an explanation for the US military turning it on before they felt it was really "ready." Also the system going live and then abruptly shutting down the monitors. Ultron did the same thing when he became self aware! Once again, T3 did it first.
7. I liked how the rampaging T1's mirrored the police shootout.
8. The whole "there isn't enough time" tension throughout the second half of the film. In T1 and T2 all the global turmoil happens "a few years from now" and all anyone needs to worry about is the immediate threat of one killer robot. But in T3 it's quite the bombshell that "this whole place" is going to be "gone" in just two hours and 53 minutes. And no one else knows it. Kinda freaky.
9. The T-850. He's all tactics and I love it. And he isn't gentle or really even nice. He just does what he's programmed to do and that's it. I don't even know that he repeats the "good Terminator" routine of T2. Uncle Bob really did seem good to me. Even though he was a machine, he still played as "good." T-850 was just going through the motions of carrying out his programming. And he deceived John and Sarah. He "won," both as a killer Terminator and as a protector whose programming to preserve their lives trumped their wishes of preserving everyone's lives. So in a way he was still an agent of Skynet, a harbinger of the Apocalypse because he did nothing to prevent the machines from having their Day. I thought that was a pretty awesome take on his character and really kept the film separate from both previous films and gave a nice edgy feel to the story. John thanks him at the end and the Terminator responds by reminding him don't worry we'll see each other again when I murder you? Damn...
10. The TX's killings really did bring back an element of horror to the story.

I'll stop there.

Cons:

1. Obviously "talk to the hand" and the pink sunglasses. Yes those were both "stupid," but...Arnold didn't play the T-850 as being "in" on the jokes. He played the hand and the sunglasses as just another tactic for his consideration. He went with the "hand" thing, decided the sunglasses were inappropriate and ditched them. A dumb "ha ha" moment for the audience, but HE wasn't turning and winking at the camera or anything so you can really take it as someone putting a silly hat on a rottweiler or something. The dog doesn't know it looks ridiculous and might still be prone to ripping your throat out.

2. Some handwaving is required to make sense of his programming. Obviously he was programmed to follow Katherine Brewster's commands but he ignored her demands to set her free from the back of the pickup truck. You could say it's a plot hole or that, like self-terminating, he can only follow her commands up to a certain point.

3. Bad TX tactics in the cemetary. The whole dropping the disguise from 30 yards away. Obviously she would have killed Catherine if the T-850 didn't show up but still, no reason for her to do that.

Honestly, not really much else to criticize than that. Which to my mind makes it a pretty damn solid chapter in the story and not in need of being dismissed. Even having John played by a different actor kind of lends itself to the notion of "John 1, John 2," etc., that some of us have enjoyed theorizing about in these threads.

Uncle Bob evolves...kind of and his relationship with John was interesting. The T 850 was a caricature at best...he even catches a bullet in his mouth like a Looney Tunes character. The actor playing John Connor was whiny, weak, and not what you would expect from a future soldier who was trained by his mother to save humanity. The villain wasn't that original, and in away, she was less advance than the T 1000.

The fact that this film makes T2 and the ending of T2 irrelevant, is enough for me to ignore it. I don't hate it, but I don't think of it as part III, I just think of it as an alternate timeline, like it's part of a multiverse. The action was cool when the T 850 wasn't delivering one liners and talking to the TX. Having said that, I'll always give credit to T3 for not having any Matrix style action, which was the "cool" thing to do back then.

 

[Wor-Gar]

The T 850 was a caricature at best...he even catches a bullet in his mouth like a Looney Tunes character. The actor playing John Connor was whiny, weak, and not what you would expect from a future soldier who was trained by her mother to save humanity. The villain wasn't that original, and in away, she was less advance than the T 1000. The fact that this film makes T2 and the ending of T2 irrelevant, is enough to ignore it, for me. I don't hate it, but I don't think of it as part III, I just think of it as an alternate timeline, like it's part of a multiverse. The action was cool when the T 850 wasn't delivering one liners and talking to the TX.

Have to agree with this. On top of that, the movie felt like a TV movie. Ans most of the tech made no sense:

How can the TX control cars and move gas pedals or steering wheels that have no mechanics to do so?

Why does a more advanced T-1000 have "hard" mechanics to make archaic flame-throwers?

Anyone who revisits this and finds it a 'satisfying' chapter now is really viewing this on nostalgic terms like "hey Arnold looks young now relative to today" and "hey this doesn't look as bad as the crap to come in Genisys".

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Anyone who revisits this and finds it a 'satisfying' chapter now is really viewing this on nostalgic terms like "hey Arnold looks young now relative to today" and "hey this doesn't look as bad as the crap to come in Genisys".

Agree, so far Genesis makes T3 look like it fits with T1 and T2

 

[Khev]

The villain wasn't that original, and in away, she was less advance than the T 1000.

Correct she was less versatile than the T-1000 which could be the reason he was sent after the Primary Target (John himself) while she got the Lieutenants. But she was specialized in taking out other Terminators and for that purpose she was more potent than the T-1000. The T-1000 appeared to require the aid of weapons or his environment to disable a T-800. The TX could do it by herself with no additional tools.

The fact that this film makes T2 and the ending of T2 irrelevant, is enough to ignore it

Actually T2 made its own ending irrelevant since you can't stop a war with a machine created *by* that war. In order for Uncle Bob to be able to exist and travel back in time the war had to happen. So T3 provided that inevitability which T2 implied was no longer a given.

How can the TX control cars and move gas pedals or steering wheels that have no mechanics to do so?

Microbots man! Just go watch Big Hero 6 and suddenly the TX seems perfectly feasible.

 

[Khev]

I did read and will read again later. I'm in work and it was simply easier to post that article as it details everything I hate about T3, there's a lot of good points amongst the nitpickery. Not to say that your post doesn't warrant consideration though so I'll go back to it later.

Well I'm very curious about your take on it then.

 

[Khev]

Anyone who revisits this and finds it a 'satisfying' chapter now is really viewing this on nostalgic terms like "hey Arnold looks young now relative to today" and "hey this doesn't look as bad as the crap to come in Genisys".

Or you have a very distant memory of it and wrote it off because of the sunglasses and talk to the hand, which, while dumb are both quick throw away scenes very early in the film (not too unlike Bad to the Bone and "stand on one foot.")