Terminator Genisys (July 1st, 2015)

[Xenoburger_]

Well Cameron is absolutely right here. It did run its course, there was nothing beyond T2 that added anything or felt in any way necessary. Some even include T2 in the unnecessary category.

For you. The ending of T3 felt way more necessary and meaningful than anything in T2. We finally got to see how it started. The beginning of the end. That is something I had wanted to witness since I first saw Terminator. And it was presented very, very well IMO. Unlike Salvation's weird, bright, sandy Mad Max desert future or Genisys' cluster**** of nonsensical randomness storyline.

I just want a future war trilogy done right. That's all we need now. Everyone who tries to make a future war movie though has to drastically change it from the flashbacks in T1 & T2 and add their own kewl "take" on it.

 

[DiFabio]

I'll be honest, as much as I don't like T3, I do think that ending with the T-850 tricking John and Kate into the bunker to survive is pretty poignant and haunting, especially with John's voice over, the rocket imagery and the radio. It was actually really well done.

Too bad none of it paid off for Salvation.

 

[RIDDICK]

Cameron left the series very complete after T2.

Nah, first season of TSCC proved that the franchise has a lot of potential outside of Cameron's narrow vision.

 

[a-dev]

For you. The ending of T3 felt way more necessary and meaningful than anything in T2. We finally got to see how it started. The beginning of the end. That is something I had wanted to witness since I first saw Terminator. And it was presented very, very well IMO. Unlike Salvation's weird, bright, sandy Mad Max desert future or Genisys' cluster**** of nonsensical randomness storyline.

I just want a future war trilogy done right. That's all we need now. Everyone who tries to make a future war movie though has to drastically change it from the flashbacks in T1 & T2 and add their own kewl "take" on it.

Agreed with your last point, that was my frustration with Salvation - ''finally someone has the sense to make a movie about the future wa- wait, what? What's all this? Who's this Marcus chap? He's a Terminator? And he's a good guy? Aww FFS. And why the hell is John Connor telling everyone he's supposed to be the leader of the resistance? Why is he telling everyone who is parents are?!!! Why is there T-800s in 2018, they shoulda came later. Why is it just throwing John against things when it has had multiple opportunities to punch through his ****ing chest'' - That wasn't the future war. So it deservedly underperformed and as a result they abandoned their trilogy idea - something I disagree with you on - it wouldn't need to be a trilogy. One film would do it.

The other thing I semi-disagree on - yeah the ending of T3 was OK, but it didn't exactly redeem the rest of the film - one. Two, a fantasy ''real'' T3 about the future war would pretty much incorporate that T3 ending anyway since it would be a ''prequel'' showing the timeline as it played out before the events of T2 changed things. In this way T2's ending isn't rendered pointless (as it is if you accept the existing T3 as canon). ''Judgment Day is inevitable''.......oh.

 

[a-dev]

Terminator doesn't have franchise in its DNA. The characters are very hard defined, their fates are pretty much already known. Series that stem from a single move not intended to create a franchise do best when there's room for character growth, particularly of the main character(s). The T-800 can't grow much, not enough to sustain an ongoing series.

A problem with Genisys was that it did try to push character growth on the T-800. It made you assume the Pops/Sarah relationship developed along the same lines as Uncle Bob/John but it skipped all the work that T2 had to do. So it felt unearned in Genisys.

The other big issue with that is when you've got new actors playing every other character in every other film it loses so much oomph. You feel nothing in particular about the fact that the machine once sent to kill Sarah Connor is now her 'dad' because that's not Linda Hamilton (obviously it could never have been). You feel nothing about the fact that Kyle Reese now has to work alongside a Terminator because that's not Michael Biehn.

This is why it's easier just to count T1 and T2 as the only canon. Same director, same vision, same actors, same composer and I'm sure many other commonalities.

 

[Khev]

Even though I enjoy Genisys I agree with everything you said a-dev. I'm reminded of one of your comments regarding Creed as well. How you said that because of the consistency with Stallone playing Rocky over the years that when he talks about Mickie or Adrian or Paulie you really feel like you've made that decades long journey with him (or something to that effect.) Same with having the entire cast from the OT return for TFA. If Han and Leia were exchanging all their lines about "good times" and "you still drive me crazy" but it was Harrison Ford interacting with some other actress playing Leia instead of Carrie it just wouldn't have had the same weight AT ALL.

Life happens, people age, die, quit acting, etc., and sometimes keeping the same cast just isn't an option but there's always something missing when a key character is replaced. Even the great TDK doesn't feel totally connected to BB without Katie Holmes.

Going back to Terminator is was HUGE to see *Linda Hamilton* have to come to terms with being allies with a being that had seemingly tried to murder her in T2. Theoretically that moment should have translated for Reese as well, hell especially since he WAS murdered in the original timeline, but Jai Courtney Kyle Reese? No impact at all. Especially when it's wise-cracking John McClane Courtney Reese. "I signed up for this??" "Come out to the coast, travel through time, we'll have a few laughs..." etc.

 

[GasparZizou]

Cameron left the series very complete after T2. Did T2 need further films to elaborate on what happened? No, it didn't. The ending is pretty definitive, and nothing left to interpretation. He filmed the alternate ending which I'm sure you're well aware, of Sarah, John and his daughter in a Judgment Day free future. That's the best evidence that T2's choices of altering fate worked.

It would be nice seeing the world Reese told Sarah about, and the events leading up the Infiltrators coming about in the war. The 600 series, leading up to the 800s, and of course the time displacement equipment. IMO, a prequel sequel is the only route the series could of went if for whatever reason Cameron decided on making it.

The bottom line is, we don't need anymore sequels. And we haven't needed them after 1991. Would it be nice to see one actually made for fans, by Cameron? Sure, but I'm content enough with the first two to not lose sleep over the mess the series became.

QFT

No Riddick, my man, SCC doesn't count.

 

[olbertfrog]

I think a Terminator film/story without the Connors or Arnold can work based on infiltrators (machines disguised as humans) and an apocalyptic world on their own. I think you could definitely tell a good story without going to the present and just focusing on that glimpse of the future we've seen in these movies. I don't know how successful it would be, but I wouldn't be opposed to seeing what it would be like to live as a ragtag soldier in those trenches against that actual freightening imagery of Skynet's creations. If you look at James Cameron's preproduction art for T1 and T2, there certainly seems to be a fascinating world in there.

Yeah some sort of spin off not attached to Connor and co would be nice.
Still regret we never had the war movie that was a must.
Futuristic Stalingrad or black hawk down, non stop war movie.
Well they found a way to make new movies, even when Arnold bites the bullet they Will do it again.
Somebody Will own the rights and hope to get a Quick buck.
Wont be surprised they would go TFA route having the Old actors back.

 

[spindrift]

Salvation was good for me- T3 was a lame retread for Arnold but the ending WAS great- very different from the rest of the film

 

[a-dev]

Even though I enjoy Genisys I agree with everything you said a-dev. I'm reminded of one of your comments regarding Creed as well. How you said that because of the consistency with Stallone playing Rocky over the years that when he talks about Mickie or Adrian or Paulie you really feel like you've made that decades long journey with him (or something to that effect.) Same with having the entire cast from the OT return for TFA. If Han and Leia were exchanging all their lines about "good times" and "you still drive me crazy" but it was Harrison Ford interacting with some other actress playing Leia instead of Carrie it just wouldn't have had the same weight AT ALL.

Life happens, people age, die, quit acting, etc., and sometimes keeping the same cast just isn't an option but there's always something missing when a key character is replaced. Even the great TDK doesn't feel totally connected to BB without Katie Holmes.

Going back to Terminator is was HUGE to see *Linda Hamilton* have to come to terms with being allies with a being that had seemingly tried to murder her in T2. Theoretically that moment should have translated for Reese as well, hell especially since he WAS murdered in the original timeline, but Jai Courtney Kyle Reese? No impact at all. Especially when it's wise-cracking John McClane Courtney Reese. "I signed up for this??" "Come out to the coast, travel through time, we'll have a few laughs..." etc.

Exactly yeah, and other than his son I think the Rocky films had total consistency of actors throughout if I'm correct. It helps make it seem like you've seen his whole life. Everything has more impact as a result.

Of course Terminator couldn't do that. They're showing these characters at different ages, and CGI de-ageing just isn't really there yet, if it ever will be...and doing it for the duration of an entire film would presumably be time-consuming and very expensive.

Point is though, was it ever worthwhile making Terminator films without all the original actors? I say no, not really.

 

[olbertfrog]

Well they did wonders with Benjamin Button.
Its all about the will and the budget to do it.

 

[cmiller99]

That was just one actor though, you wouldn't want to have to go through that with multiple actors.

 

[WWEJedi]

Are they making a Terminator 6? I know the sequel for this was scrapped.... but it seems stupid to walk away from a franchise as successful as this.

 

[MaulFan]

Are they making a Terminator 6? I know the sequel for this was scrapped.... but it seems stupid to walk away from a franchise as successful as this.

The franchise success has been on a downward slope since T2, that's why the Genisys sequel has been scrapped, short of a full reboot without Arnold, I don't see any more Terminator movies coming now.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Nah, first season of TSCC proved that the franchise has a lot of potential outside of Cameron's narrow vision.

The only place it could of been taken realistically was the future, and only the future. I know a lot of folks love SCC and that's fine. But every single incarnation after T2, is just T2 again in pretty much the same scenarios over and over. If Cameron's vision was so narrow, so is everything else that came after his work.

 

[spindrift]

They need to wait a few years and do a TOTAL reboot with a new T 800..Cameron would be the perfect choice to reboot his own franchise.

 

[a-dev]

The only place it could of been taken realistically was the future, and only the future. I know a lot of folks love SCC and that's fine. But every single incarnation after T2, is just T2 again in pretty much the same scenarios over and over. If Cameron's vision was so narrow, so is everything else that came after his work.

And if T2 is guilty of defying Kyle Reese's line ''Nobody goes home, nobody else comes through. It's just him and me'', which T1 purists hold up as an argument against the validity of T2, then TSCC must be guilty of it many times more. That said I do agree that TSCC was closer in tone to Cameron's films than any of the actual movies that followed T2.

 

[Snake Plissken]

And if T2 is guilty of defying Kyle Reese's line ''Nobody goes home, nobody else comes through. It's just him and me'', which T1 purists hold up as an argument against the validity of T2, then TSCC must be guilty of it many times more. That said I do agree that TSCC was closer in tone to Cameron's films than any of the actual movies that followed T2.

I've heard that many times. I really should give it a watch. I watched the pilot and didn't stick with it.

 

[GeneralZodLives]

I'm finishing watching TSCC again and love it. I've watched it several times and still wish they'd have kept it going for at least a third season.

 

[GasparZizou]

And if T2 is guilty of defying Kyle Reese's line ''Nobody goes home, nobody else comes through. It's just him and me'', which T1 purists hold up as an argument against the validity of T2, then TSCC must be guilty of it many times more. That said I do agree that TSCC was closer in tone to Cameron's films than any of the actual movies that followed T2.

That argument that "purists" make, makes no sense.

Kyle is saying what he was told, what he was told BEFORE going back, how the plan was supposed to proceed, there is no way he knew the TDE would be successfully blown up or not, there is no way he knew if no one else came through, he was only told how things were supposed to play out in a hypothetical future he never saw and can't attest for because he wasn't there anymore at that point, besides, infinite timelines makes that **** unaccountable for.

They should feel ashamed for using such a poorly thought out argument, because apparently that's one of their trump cards

You can't be a purist without including T2, period.