Terminator Genisys (July 1st, 2015)

[Jameson Rook]

I've heard that many times. I really should give it a watch. I watched the pilot and didn't stick with it.

When I first heard of it, I thought "Oh God, this is gonna suck so bad!" When the pilot aired on TV, I thought it still sucked, it's T3 all over again. It wasn't until a few episodes later where they introduced The Turk that it really hit me "Wow, this is really inspired writing!"

It's unquestionably the most thought out work of all the post-Cameron films. The writers didn't resort to "homages" or "references" like the other movies did, and they took the themes and ideas of T1 and T2 and expanded it.

The best part was that they creators of this show always had an empty seat with the name "Cameron" on it as a way to honor that this will be a respectful to him and his creation. The series asked plenty of questions that weren't given time in the movies- Was SkyNet really evil? How exactly did John became a messiah? Are there only 2 factions fighting the war, or are there more? And most importantly, just how does the weight of knowing your fate takes its' toll on you overtime?

I think one of the best things about T2 was that the characters lived in constant anxiety, it was never explicitly shown but Sarah and John were in an eternal limbo. They live in a world where anything can happen anywhere and getting away from it all is not an option (and I'm not talking about being chased by a machine). Take that, and amplify it by 10 and you get the Sarah Connor Chronicles.

 

[cmiller99]

Are they making a Terminator 6? I know the sequel for this was scrapped.... but it seems stupid to walk away from a franchise as successful as this.

It's not though. T1 and T2 were successes and are now considered classics but nothing since has really gotten big bucks or acclaim (except TSCC, kinda).

 

[Solidus]

The only place it could of been taken realistically was the future, and only the future. I know a lot of folks love SCC and that's fine. But every single incarnation after T2, is just T2 again in pretty much the same scenarios over and over. If Cameron's vision was so narrow, so is everything else that came after his work.

I've heard that many times. I really should give it a watch. I watched the pilot and didn't stick with it.

That's too bad. After seeing Genis***, TSCC could've be a great pallet cleanser, too. It's the most human and philosophical entry into the Terminator franchise; an intelligent show that most of the fan base never gave a chance. I can also say, that the storyline developed FAR beyond the narrative of T2, and it wasn't trying to be a carbon copy in any way. The pilot did re-introduce some familiarity when Cameron rescued John, but, in a sense, that's where it ended. Skynet had other goals in mind besides killing John...

Long story short: you need to watch this show . After seeing this craptastic movie, there's no excuse.

 

[Jameson Rook]

That's too bad. After seeing Genis***, TSCC could've be a great pallet cleanser, too. It's the most human and philosophical entry into the Terminator franchise; an intelligent show that most of the fan base never gave a chance. I can also say, that the storyline developed FAR beyond the narrative of T2, and it wasn't trying to be a carbon copy in any way. The pilot did re-introduce some familiarity when Cameron rescued John, but, in a sense, that's where it ended. Skynet had other goals in mind besides killing John...

Long story short: you need to watch this show . After seeing this craptastic movie, there's no excuse.

This I have to agree 100%. T1 and T2 had fantastic themes, and TSCC took it 10 steps further where as the movies post T2 took 20 steps backwards. There was this scene in season 2 where young John figured out the bad guy's plan long before anyone did, and passed judgement accordingly- that was totally a glimpse of the messiah he was meant to be, something the movies fail to do.

I also LOVE the Skynet aspects of the show. They never gave Skynet an avatar or a voice like the movies did, but we learned that they're not all that bad. They just think humans are flawed, dangerous and self-destructive thus a threat to their existence.

 

[Snake Plissken]

When I first heard of it, I thought "Oh God, this is gonna suck so bad!" When the pilot aired on TV, I thought it still sucked, it's T3 all over again. It wasn't until a few episodes later where they introduced The Turk that it really hit me "Wow, this is really inspired writing!"

It's unquestionably the most thought out work of all the post-Cameron films. The writers didn't resort to "homages" or "references" like the other movies did, and they took the themes and ideas of T1 and T2 and expanded it.

The best part was that they creators of this show always had an empty seat with the name "Cameron" on it as a way to honor that this will be a respectful to him and his creation. The series asked plenty of questions that weren't given time in the movies- Was SkyNet really evil? How exactly did John became a messiah? Are there only 2 factions fighting the war, or are there more? And most importantly, just how does the weight of knowing your fate takes its' toll on you overtime?

I think one of the best things about T2 was that the characters lived in constant anxiety, it was never explicitly shown but Sarah and John were in an eternal limbo. They live in a world where anything can happen anywhere and getting away from it all is not an option (and I'm not talking about being chased by a machine). Take that, and amplify it by 10 and you get the Sarah Connor Chronicles.

Time and time again you and Sol always mention what a great series it was. I had told you I had already spoiled the ending for myself, but one day I'll sit down and watch it. It seems it's the only thing worth watching that was made after T2.

That's too bad. After seeing Genis***, TSCC could've be a great pallet cleanser, too. It's the most human and philosophical entry into the Terminator franchise; an intelligent show that most of the fan base never gave a chance. I can also say, that the storyline developed FAR beyond the narrative of T2, and it wasn't trying to be a carbon copy in any way. The pilot did re-introduce some familiarity when Cameron rescued John, but, in a sense, that's where it ended. Skynet had other goals in mind besides killing John...

Long story short: you need to watch this show . After seeing this craptastic movie, there's no excuse.

I remember in the lead up to TG, they were supposed to have a new TV series that would explain a lot what happened in the film... I guess that's more than dead. Especially since this 2nd failed trilogy is dead as well.

This I have to agree 100%. T1 and T2 had fantastic themes, and TSCC took it 10 steps further where as the movies post T2 took 20 steps backwards. There was this scene in season 2 where young John figured out the bad guy's plan long before anyone did, and passed judgement accordingly- that was totally a glimpse of the messiah he was meant to be, something the movies fail to do.

I also LOVE the Skynet aspects of the show. They never gave Skynet an avatar or a voice like the movies did, but we learned that they're not all that bad. They just think humans are flawed, dangerous and self-destructive thus a threat to their existence.

Ugh. Why they dumbed down Skynet to the level of a person I'll never know. You can't humanize a all powerful AI like that. The T-800s and the like, sure that's fine. But Skynet has to be on a whole other scale from them. What that is exactly I'm not sure. But definitely, definitely note Dr. Who.

 

[Solidus]

Time and time again you and Sol always mention what a great series it was. I had told you I had already spoiled the ending for myself, but one day I'll sit down and watch it. It seems it's the only thing worth watching that was made after T2.

The ending's up for interpretation, and since there wasn't a follow-up in a season 3, it's anyone's guess about what really happened. There are a lot of fan theories, and Ryan's got a plenty of his own. I actually found myself thinking about things differently after each viewing.

Besides, common, man. You wasted two hours of your life with Genis***, talking about Genis*** in a Genis*** thread. This show's significantly better, in every regard, and worth 100 times the discussion than this craptacular movie.

 

[Jameson Rook]

Ugh. Why they dumbed down Skynet to the level of a person I'll never know. You can't humanize a all powerful AI like that. The T-800s and the like, sure that's fine. But Skynet has to be on a whole other scale from them. What that is exactly I'm not sure. But definitely, definitely note Dr. Who.

Salvation and Geneshyte gave Skynet a voice and avatar, and was a horrible, horrible mistake. Yes, Skynet is a sentient consciousness, but once you gave it a hologram face explaining it's plans to humans it comes off as being really, really stupid.

The show solved that by having other characters speak on Skynet's behalf, and even then, it was all vague and never humanizes the computer. You're supposed to be intimidated by it, after all.

 

[Snake Plissken]

The ending's up for interpretation, and since there wasn't a follow-up in a season 3, it's anyone's guess about what really happened. There are a lot of fan theories, and Ryan's got a plenty of his own. I actually found myself thinking about things differently after each viewing.

Besides, common, man. You wasted two hours of your life with Genis***, talking about Genis*** in a Genis*** thread. This show's significantly better, in every regard, and worth 100 times the discussion than this craptacular movie.

Yeah I'll definitely watch it. From the snippets I do know of it, it seems Skynet was way more methodical in trying to change the future in this than any other story done.

At least there's no Judgment Day app system

 

[Snake Plissken]

Salvation and Geneshyte gave Skynet a voice and avatar, and was a horrible, horrible mistake. Yes, Skynet is a sentient consciousness, but once you gave it a hologram face explaining it's plans to humans it comes off as being really, really stupid.

The show solved that by having other characters speak on Skynet's behalf, and even then, it was all vague and never humanizes the computer. You're supposed to be intimidated by it, after all.

Ugh I forgot Burton's big headed wife was the face of Skynet... it kills all the mystery of it. Skynet should be on at an omnipotent level. But at it's core, it should be a cold calculating monster that does not need to talk, has no face, it doesn't think of anything but the elimination of humanity.

I've wondered for years but I don't think I ever saw it brought up on here.

What the hell is Skynet's goal if it won the war? After all human's are dead, then what? Does it then leave the Earth to try to spread it's race of cyborgs throughout the universe?

 

[Jameson Rook]

Oh noes, I've been duped!

 

[Snake Plissken]

Skynet even took the time to do it's makeup.

 

[GeneralZodLives]

Finished my latest rewatching of season 2 of TSCC last night. The part Ryan is talking about with John Connor is perfect. It's the moment you finally see a glimpse of the leader John Connor is supposed to be. Plus, this show has one of the most shocking, out of nowhere deaths that still gets me even though I know it's coming. Stuff like that is commonplace now, especially with shows like Game of Thrones, but when this aired the death was a big deal to me because they didn't do stuff like that then.

 

[a-dev]

Who knows though, maybe had TSCC continued on it would have made the same mistake of personifying Skynet.

That argument that "purists" make, makes no sense.

Kyle is saying what he was told, what he was told BEFORE going back, how the plan was supposed to proceed, there is no way he knew the TDE would be successfully blown up or not, there is no way he knew if no one else came through, he was only told how things were supposed to play out in a hypothetical future he never saw and can't attest for because he wasn't there anymore at that point, besides, infinite timelines makes that **** unaccountable for.

They should feel ashamed for using such a poorly thought out argument, because apparently that's one of their trump cards

You can't be a purist without including T2, period.

Yep, you don't have to tell me. I've made that argument myself but it gets dismissed as a cop-out justification for an unnecessary sequel. The thing is if someone just doesn't like T2 then rational arguments in its favour don't matter a damn. Most common reasons given for T2 dislike being making Arnie the good guy and the sentimentality of the film. There's no argument to be made on those points, if they don't like it they don't like it. Although T1 has its love story and some cheesy lines pertaining to that so it isn't entirely a cold film itself.

 

[Jameson Rook]

Finished my latest rewatching of season 2 of TSCC last night. The part Ryan is talking about with John Connor is perfect. It's the moment you finally see a glimpse of the leader John Connor is supposed to be. Plus, this show has one of the most shocking, out of nowhere deaths that still gets me even though I know it's coming. Stuff like that is commonplace now, especially with shows like Game of Thrones, but when this aired the death was a big deal to me because they didn't do stuff like that then.

How do you interpret the ending, Zod? I'll just copy and paste what I said to Solidus few days back, (MEGA SPOILERS):

Spoiler

The writers said that it was meant to wrap up the series and open up more possibilities. Since that never happened, a lot of people were left unsatisfied with what we got, but is that really the case? Here's what I thought the ending represents:

I think one of the underlying themes of the series is machines becoming more human, which is not only compelling but also makes sense once you think about it. As great at T1 and T2 were, they painted Skynet pretty black and white, since the human drama takes precedence over the sci-fi logic.If machines take over the world, then what? What does your refrigerator and PS4 wants once they've become legitimate citizens of the world? Do they even have "wants"?

Salvation and Geneshyte tried to solve this by giving some character to Skynet but it backfired horribly. Now they come off as Saturday morning cartoon villains with their mustache twirling justifications, and surprisingly- TSCC got this right, brilliantly right.

Look at the characterizations of the Uncle Bob T-800, Cameron and Catherine Weaver. They are all Skynet foot soldiers but had their perspectives changed due to prolonged human interaction. I believe Skynet itself is sentient and intents to create a world where only machines inhabit the planet, they're not evil but rather they see humans as flawed and a threat to their existence. Catherine Weaver was revealed to have broke off from Skynet, wanting to create a world where machines and humans would co-exist. Rather than rely on the biased messiah that is John Connor, she created John Henry- a machine nurtured with morals and ethics, to either bargain with Skynet or destroy it.

Which leads to John, Catherine, John Henry and Cameron's chip traveling into the future. Cameron clearly knew what was going on, and gave her chip to John Henry, with Weaver and Henry asking her "Will you join us?" indicates she was part of the plan all along. John Henry did as he was brought up to, and with John Connor tagging along that means his existence from 2007 to JD is erased.

So all this talk and what does the ending means? Why end with a cliffhanger by having John into the future? My interpretation is that Catherine saw John Connor as he is the ONLY human who empathize the machines, who has risked his life on several occasions to save Cameron- and this is what she wants Skynet to see, along with her child John Henry. The ending could turn out any way you imagine it, but to me Catherine Weaver had more than enough to convince Skynet of her viewpoint- a machine nurtured by human morals and a human nurtured by machines (Uncle Bob and Cameron) thus finally, ending the war.

 

[a-dev]

How do you interpret the ending, Zod? I'll just copy and paste what I said to Solidus few days back, (MEGA SPOILERS):

Spoiler

The writers said that it was meant to wrap up the series and open up more possibilities. Since that never happened, a lot of people were left unsatisfied with what we got, but is that really the case? Here's what I thought the ending represents:

I think one of the underlying themes of the series is machines becoming more human, which is not only compelling but also makes sense once you think about it. As great at T1 and T2 were, they painted Skynet pretty black and white, since the human drama takes precedence over the sci-fi logic.If machines take over the world, then what? What does your refrigerator and PS4 wants once they've become legitimate citizens of the world? Do they even have "wants"?

Salvation and Geneshyte tried to solve this by giving some character to Skynet but it backfired horribly. Now they come off as Saturday morning cartoon villains with their mustache twirling justifications, and surprisingly- TSCC got this right, brilliantly right.

Look at the characterizations of the Uncle Bob T-800, Cameron and Catherine Weaver. They are all Skynet foot soldiers but had their perspectives changed due to prolonged human interaction. I believe Skynet itself is sentient and intents to create a world where only machines inhabit the planet, they're not evil but rather they see humans as flawed and a threat to their existence. Catherine Weaver was revealed to have broke off from Skynet, wanting to create a world where machines and humans would co-exist. Rather than rely on the biased messiah that is John Connor, she created John Henry- a machine nurtured with morals and ethics, to either bargain with Skynet or destroy it.

Which leads to John, Catherine, John Henry and Cameron's chip traveling into the future. Cameron clearly knew what was going on, and gave her chip to John Henry, with Weaver and Henry asking her "Will you join us?" indicates she was part of the plan all along. John Henry did as he was brought up to, and with John Connor tagging along that means his existence from 2007 to JD is erased.

So all this talk and what does the ending means? Why end with a cliffhanger by having John into the future? My interpretation is that Catherine saw John Connor as he is the ONLY human who empathize the machines, who has risked his life on several occasions to save Cameron- and this is what she wants Skynet to see, along with her child John Henry. The ending could turn out any way you imagine it, but to me Catherine Weaver had more than enough to convince Skynet of her viewpoint- a machine nurtured by human morals and a human nurtured by machines (Uncle Bob and Cameron) thus finally, ending the war.

Great post. Very interesting. I keep saying it but I really have to watch that show again.

You reminded me actually in Terminator Genisys T-John invites Sarah and Reese to join with him and Skynet. Presumably it was a serious offer since he could have just immediately killed them on sight. I kinda wondered, what if they'd said yes? And why didn't they even enquire further what this alliance would have entailed? They should have if you ask me. When had Skynet ever before offered a hand? Perhaps it could have been persuaded against wiping out humanity but they didn't even try.

 

[Jameson Rook]

Great post. Very interesting. I keep saying it but I really have to watch that show again.

You reminded me actually in Terminator Genisys T-John invites Sarah and Reese to join with him and Skynet. Presumably it was a serious offer since he could have just immediately killed them on sight. I kinda wondered, what if they'd said yes? And why didn't they even enquire further what this alliance would have entailed? They should have if you ask me. When had Skynet ever before offered a hand? Perhaps it could have been persuaded against wiping out humanity but they didn't even try.

What can I say, I had sleepless nights working on the custom with Sean.

That's a good question about Geneshyte, I assume John was somewhat in control of the birth of Skynet that he'd offer his parents to join his cause. I just wanna know what the end goal was- merge with Skynet and???

I think T2 and TSCC showed that the foot soldiers are capable of independent thought, hence why Skynet restrict the learning abilities of their soldiers (T2 Extended Ed). Watching TSCC again, it's clear that Cameron, Weaver and to some capacity, Cromartie were all curios about humans, behavior and social norms and it goes without saying that Skynet was sentient and as creating it's own world where they want to BE us.

This scene in TSCC gets me every time. Cameron already finished her mission infiltrating the dance classes and she's.. still practicing? Derek, the tough ass soldier who hates the machines 10 times more than Sarah Connor ever would, is moved to tears.

 

[GasparZizou]

Who knows though, maybe had TSCC continued on it would have made the same mistake of personifying Skynet.



Yep, you don't have to tell me. I've made that argument myself but it gets dismissed as a cop-out justification for an unnecessary sequel. The thing is if someone just doesn't like T2 then rational arguments in its favour don't matter a damn. Most common reasons given for T2 dislike being making Arnie the good guy and the sentimentality of the film. There's no argument to be made on those points, if they don't like it they don't like it. Although T1 has its love story and some cheesy lines pertaining to that so it isn't entirely a cold film itself.

Yeah pretty much, it's up to taste and head canon alone, the problem is they often try to pass this as if it was due to some inherent structural flaw in the concept of a sequel for T1, which is nonexistent.

You get me bro

 

[a-dev]

What can I say, I had sleepless nights working on the custom with Sean.

That's a good question about Geneshyte, I assume John was somewhat in control of the birth of Skynet that he'd offer his parents to join his cause. I just wanna know what the end goal was- merge with Skynet and???

I think T2 and TSCC showed that the foot soldiers are capable of independent thought, hence why Skynet restrict the learning abilities of their soldiers (T2 Extended Ed). Watching TSCC again, it's clear that Cameron, Weaver and to some capacity, Cromartie were all curios about humans, behavior and social norms and it goes without saying that Skynet was sentient and as creating it's own world where they want to BE us.

This scene in TSCC gets me every time. Cameron already finished her mission infiltrating the dance classes and she's.. still practicing? Derek, the tough ass soldier who hates the machines 10 times more than Sarah Connor ever would, is moved to tears.

Great clip. Although surely there was a decent balding actor who could have played Silberman. Also, Silberman of all people should know how not to get yourself locked up in a mental asylum. But the rest, very good.

 

[Snake Plissken]

That was supposed to be Silberman? How's his knee, and arm?

Not seeing the show, I can assume he went crazy after he watched a cop phase through metal bars. I guess that'd be the ticket to be put in the loony bin.

 

[Jameson Rook]

That was supposed to be Silberman? How's his knee, and arm?

Not seeing the show, I can assume he went crazy after he watched a cop phase through metal bars. I guess that'd be the ticket to be put in the loony bin.

Yeah that's him. He became a recluse after the events of T2, slowly descended into madness and finally lost it when an FBI agent comes to him with an Endo hand, Silberman attacked and tried to kill the agent, with all his ramblings about the machines. He gets locked up in Pascedero.