Terminator Salvation = Awesome

[thenammagazine]

To be honest I had no idea who "Katherine" was -- as I said I hated T3 and have only seen it twice.

Finally saw the film last night. I wouldn't say "awesome" but at least it didn't suck. Definitely some good stuff in there, but I think they could have done with a little more character development and a little less action. There wasn't enough time to really get to know the characters as well as I would have liked. This seems to be a common problem with modern action films -- you need some down time to make the action sequences have the most impact. If you go back and look at something like T1 or T2, or Alien and Aliens, there's a fair amount of time spent building up the characters and the film world, and I think that's part of what makes them lastingly popular.

So why blame Terminator: Salvation for that?

 

[icruise]

Because maybe it shouldn't rely on the fact that the audience remembers everything about the previous movies to understand the current one? Geez, why is it so important that you prove that your opinion is correct? It's not like I'm bashing the movie.

 

[darren1228]

Just watched it. Went in with low expectations and it was decent I guess. I think the movie would have benefited if they had cut out a few action scenes. The whole movie was basically one action scene to the next...from beginning to end. A little more plot and character development would've been great. This was what Cameron was so good at...mixing a good story along with terrific action.

 

[thenammagazine]

Because maybe it shouldn't rely on the fact that the audience remembers everything about the previous movies to understand the current one? Geez, why is it so important that you prove that your opinion is correct? It's not like I'm bashing the movie.

It's not a matter of me being right or wrong. I'm just trying to understand why you expect a sequel to fully draw out characters that have been well established through the earlier films. Batman would suck if every sequel started with explaining the whole origin again and again. Part of being a sequel means that a storyline gets to move forward, not backward and being a sequel, it's almost expected you have some knowledge of the previous films before dropping cash on a ticket. What you're saying is like someone just seeing Return of the King and saying, "That's dumb. They didn't say who Boromir was!"

 

[YoNoSe]

Adult John Connor has not been established at all. And this movie fails to move the story forward in any way.
I can understand someone throwing this a pass if you're a hardcore T fan but to defend this screenplay is madness.
Your protagonist needs to do more than listen to a tape recorder and

Spoiler

get stabbed.

 

[icruise]

It's not a matter of me being right or wrong. I'm just trying to understand why you expect a sequel to fully draw out characters that have been well established through the earlier films. Batman would suck if every sequel started with explaining the whole origin again and again. Part of being a sequel means that a storyline gets to move forward, not backward and being a sequel, it's almost expected you have some knowledge of the previous films before dropping cash on a ticket. What you're saying is like someone just seeing Return of the King and saying, "That's dumb. They didn't say who Boromir was!"

Considering there's a gap of many years between this movie and the last (both in the film world and the real world), the setting is totally different, and all of the principle actors are different, I don't really think those are reasonable comparisons. But anyway I think we're getting away from my primary complaint which was not that I had no idea who the characters were, but rather that they didn't explore their personalities, motivations, and relationships much at all.

 

[FACEBOX]

Adult John Connor has not been established at all. And this movie fails to move the story forward in any way.
I can understand someone throwing this a pass if you're a hardcore T fan but to defend this screenplay is madness.
Your protagonist needs to do more than listen to a tape recorder and

Spoiler

get stabbed.

Madness!?

THIS

IS


SPARTA!

 

[thenammagazine]

Adult John Connor has not been established at all. And this movie fails to move the story forward in any way.
I can understand someone throwing this a pass if you're a hardcore T fan but to defend this screenplay is madness.
Your protagonist needs to do more than listen to a tape recorder and

Spoiler

get stabbed.

Did we watch the same movie? True Bale was the star, but to me at least, Marcus was the protagonist and his character was fully realized.

Considering there's a gap of many years between this movie and the last (both in the film world and the real world), the setting is totally different, and all of the principle actors are different, I don't really think those are reasonable comparisons. But anyway I think we're getting away from my primary complaint which was not that I had no idea who the characters were, but rather that they didn't explore their personalities, motivations, and relationships much at all.

And my point was that they had, ad nauseum, in the previous films and the television show.

 

[Nocturne]

I do agree that John needed some more development time, if only to show why he stopped being a whiny child between T3 and T4. If this was what happened after Bale caused him to get more screen time I dread to think what they had planned for him beforehand.

It wouldn't have hurt to have Kate's role re-iterated either as the character.

The main problem seems to be that there's a significant time jump. Would've been better to see how the resistance formed, how Kate started acting as a surgeon. It's like they wanted to move straight onto blowing ^^^^ up.
However I did enjoy the movie, but knowing the backstory helped a lot.

 

[YoNoSe]

Did we watch the same movie? True Bale was the star, but to me at least, Marcus was the protagonist and his character was fully realized.

No, you're right about that. Which is just another massive mistake the writers made, IMO. But regardless you still need to establish the character of John Connor. It's presumptuous to think an audience is going in knowing the continuity to date and adult Connor barely exists on film prior to this. So far we've only been told about adult JC. By the end of the movie very little has changed.
The Marcus character is definitely the most defined character...

Spoiler

but why bother? His impact was minimal. Why waste an entire movie on a new character that just gets killed off?

I don't have any real stake in arguing about this flick and I don't want to bash it. I'm just surprised at the lengths you're going to defend it. Obviously I'm not as devout a fan of the franchise.
For me, as a casual Terminator fan, I felt I learned nothing new and have no idea where this trilogy would go or what would happen next. I did have an interest in seeing John Connor do what we've heard about but he doesn't do much of anything and Bale is either falling into a rut or was terribly directed. The only way I would be excited about the next one is if a totally new creative team stepped in.
Just my 2 cents. I'm actually glad a lot of the fans seem to like it, that's what really matters.

 

[cr`]

it doesnt matter that we already know the character in the previous movies. the character still has to be explored further in this movie. there has to be an arch for the lead characters, even in sequels. otherwise it's just loud noise and eye candy.

 

[darren1228]

One part I didn't find believable was Skynet designing Marcus and never thinking of the possibility that he would defect. They basically just let Marcus walk away.

Marcus saving Connor (from the machines in the water) also felt a little forced. He could have gotten away and went after Reese without Connor. Why come back and save the man who just tried to blow you to pieces? The initial interaction between Connor and Marcus could have been written better IMO.

 

[jedibear]

...Marcus saving Connor (from the machines in the water) also felt a little forced. He could have gotten away and went after Reese without Connor. Why come back and save the man who just tried to blow you to pieces? The initial interaction between Connor and Marcus could have been written better IMO.

Oh, I don't know...I got what was going on with Marcus. A young kid who saved his life and ended up creating a kind of "family" unit says how they need to find Connor after hearing his radio broadcast...Marcus sees how important this is to Kyle and that "resistance"...the woman he meets and has a bond with (she frees and saves him after all) initially tells him about Connor...Marcus seems smart enough to realize they both have the same goal...find and save Reese...and the more personal one of finding out what happened to him and how he became what he is...it's not all cut and dry and blatantly spelled out, but it was there. It's part of what makes Marcus the most compelling character in TS...

 

[thenammagazine]

Oh, I don't know...I got what was going on with Marcus. A young kid who saved his life and ended up creating a kind of "family" unit says how they need to find Connor after hearing his radio broadcast...Marcus sees how important this is to Kyle and that "resistance"...the woman he meets and has a bond with (she frees and saves him after all) initially tells him about Connor...Marcus seems smart enough to realize they both have the same goal...find and save Reese...and the more personal one of finding out what happened to him and how he became what he is...it's not all cut and dry and blatantly spelled out, but it was there. It's part of what makes Marcus the most compelling character in TS...

Sadly, it was lost on the meatheads who likely have difficulty reading flashcards.

 

[icruise]

Yeah, this movie was just way too deep for dumb-asses like us.

 

[jedibear]

that's not what I said...

 

[thenammagazine]

that's not what I said...

That was in response to my post for inquiring as to why he was blaming the movie because he can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[icruise]

that's not what I said...

I wasn't referring to anything you said. I just don't understand why some pretty minor criticisms of the script are causing nam to defend the movie so strenuously. You'd think I was bashing Sideshow or something.

 

[ONEYE]

I saw it at the opening/midnight show. I plan to see it at least 2 more times, but during the day and during the work week. I can't stand people and it will be less crowded then. So, TS is going to get more money from me. I'll be buying the DVD when it comes out. More $. It hasn't opened all over the world yet, so I believe the money will still be rolling in and once it leaves the theaters, the final numbers will be respectable, bumped up by blu-ray and DVD sales further down the road.

I would like to see more collectibles from it. A 1:1 or 1:2 T-600 weapon. Quarter scale aerial HK, Harvester, moto-terminator, T-1, hydro-terminator. The Marcus without his human parts (1:6), Blair (1:6). Finally, a HT 1:6 chromed T-800, it would be so easy for HT to do this, they have the molds, the packaging, it's just a paint job change.

 

[Kaijuboy]

I would like to see more collectibles from it. A 1:1 or 1:2 T-600 weapon. Quarter scale aerial HK, Harvester, moto-terminator, T-1, hydro-terminator. The Marcus without his human parts (1:6), Blair (1:6). Finally, a HT 1:6 chromed T-800, it would be so easy for HT to do this, they have the molds, the packaging, it's just a paint job change.

^^^ This I would kill for... Or take Oneye's remaining eye!