The Alien Franchise Discussion

[abake]

My feelings exactly.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

I'm surprised that you place Covenant above A3... I find that A3 has a lot of very interesting things going for it, even the theatrical cut. But the workprint, or whatever it's called, is superior.

IIRC, it's called the "Assembly Cut"

The story, as I remember it, is that David Fincher was brought on under several complex conditions. The sets had already been built, so Fincher had to write a new story based on the existing sets in place. Weaver wanted no guns in this film. She wanted to have sex with the alien ( but it was modified to her getting banged by Tywin Lannister) And she demanded she die at the end. So that had to be included. And he had to do it quickly to meet a deadline. I also think there were some concerns about Charles Dutton, since he went to prison in real life for murder, and now he's playing an ex con murderer that's looking to be redeemed. But the cancel culture and press worked different back then.

There's an entire sequence removed where the alien is trapped in one storage room, then the crazy prisoner lets it out again. Also there was some blood feud with Ralph Brown ( Yes, Ric Olie again....) who played the warden's right hand man and the writers.

David Goyer wrote an alternate script where Ripley was in stasis and the film was built around Hicks and Newt trying to survive an infested space station. Part of the problem there was they couldn't get Weaver to do a cameo as a stiff in a box, and she wouldn't release her rights to even do some workaround with photos. Also Biehn had real substance abuse issues and no one was sure he'd be reliable. And Carrie Hehn was no longer the same little girl in the same time frame in the Aliens world. I read the script a long long long time ago and it wasn't half bad.

Alien 3 is a visually stunning film. The production quality still holds up today. But I can't deny it any longer - Weaver killed the film. She made a bunch of unreasonable demands. Also her requirements essentially made it impossible to bring back Hicks and Newt. And without Newt, it rendered all the sacrifices made for Newt and that relationship in Aliens as pointless.

Biehn was in a prime opportunity to carry the franchise forward. The conditions were there for the studio to move past Weaver and keep the story going. But he couldn't stay clean.

Life comes at you fast. When you get your shot, you need to be ready for it.

 

[Zurdo95D]

 

[Ramatuelle]

Alien 3 is a visually stunning film. The production quality still holds up today. But I can't deny it any longer - Weaver killed the film. She made a bunch of unreasonable demands. Also her requirements essentially made it impossible to bring back Hicks and Newt. And without Newt, it rendered all the sacrifices made for Newt and that relationship in Aliens as pointless.

While I revere Weaver for Alien and Aliens, this is 100% correct and made me think much less of her. The instant she pulled that No Guns shtick they should have recast the role.

This was back in the hoary days before the internet and before spoilers were everywhere. Therefore, there we all were in the theatre fpr Alien 3 and they unloaded upon the audience's unsuspecting heads the IMMEDIATE news that Newt was dead, Hicks was dead and Bishop was destroyed. I mean, the movie was not five minutes into the runtime and they did that. It was like hearing that your friends died. It cast a pall over the movie that took me years to get past. It was just a tsunami of bad news and instead of being excited, I remember me and my husband and my brother all sitting in the theatre, and all of our feelings were hurt. Did we not lose -enough- people we loved in Aliens? Evidently not.

The franchise would be in much better shape today had they recast everyone who needed recasting and just kept going with the good storyline they had, and the characters we loved.

 

[Jmek]

Whoa Nelly! I really like Alien 3, especially the assembly cut they did. If they got rid of the Ox birth and tightened up a few scenes, it would be a a stone cold classic instead of a flawed diamond. But Fincher ain't coming back!

I never understood the grizzling over the death of Newt and Hicks as well as Bishop's destruction. It was a horror film, and a very nihilistic one at that. Which is something that I admire the film had the balls to do, no happy ending. But each to their own.

 

[jaztermareal]

Whoa Nelly! I really like Alien 3, especially the assembly cut they did. If they got rid of the Ox birth and tightened up a few scenes, it would be a a stone cold classic instead of a flawed diamond. But Fincher ain't coming back!

I never understood the grizzling over the death of Newt and Hicks as well as Bishop's destruction. It was a horror film, and a very nihilistic one at that. Which is something that I admire the film had the balls to do, no happy ending. But each to their own.

Exactly. each movie had its own tone. Alien was a mysterious slasher in space, Aliens was an action movie, Alien 3 was nihilistic horror while Alien Resurrection was... well, it was quirky.

Alien 3 was more of a true (tonal) sequel to Alien than Aliens was.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

The first 3 movies work as a nice trilogy. Full story contained. Nothing left to tell.
Personally, those are the only Alien movies that exist to me. I ignore everything from Resurrection onwards.
Out of the 3, my favourite tends to flip flop between Alien and Aliens, though they are very different movies. Gun to the head, I'd have to choose Alien.
As much as I like Aliens, I miss the Lovecraftian, cosmic horror horror that the first Alien movie had. The mystery of the creature, how unstoppable it was. We knew so little about. So utterly Alien and inhuman. Where does it come from, how did it did up on the ship, was the message a call for help or a warning etc etc
Then Aliens came along and explained the life cycle, stripped away some of the mystery, turned them into space termites.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

The first 3 movies work as a nice trilogy. Full story contained. Nothing left to tell.
Personally, those are the only Alien movies that exist to me. I ignore everything from Resurrection onwards.
Out of the 3, my favourite tends to flip flop between Alien and Aliens, though they are very different movies. Gun to the head, I'd have to choose Alien.
As much as I like Aliens, I miss the Lovecraftian, cosmic horror horror that the first Alien movie had. The mystery of the creature, how unstoppable it was. We knew so little about. So utterly Alien and inhuman. Where does it come from, how did it did up on the ship, was the message a call for help or a warning etc etc
Then Aliens came along and explained the life cycle, stripped away some of the mystery, turned them into space termites.

I've always believed the most terrifying part of Alien Resurrection, and the part most in line with the original's sense of unknown dread, was the underwater scene. I wish the entire film was set mostly underwater ( i.e. an underwater base or a ship crashed into an ocean, etc, etc)

Also wish they dumped Weaver and Ryder and just stuck with the mercenaries trying to escape.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

I've always believed the most terrifying part of Alien Resurrection, and the part most in line with the original's sense of unknown dread, was the underwater scene. I wish the entire film was set mostly underwater ( i.e. an underwater base or a ship crashed into an ocean, etc, etc)

Also wish they dumped Weaver and Ryder and just stuck with the mercenaries trying to escape.

The Ripley clone, somehow mixed with Alien DNA and the Alien Queen having a womb was just silly nonsense. Then the newborn creature. Oh dear.
Agree the underwater sequence was the best part of the film. Interesting concept to have it set almost entirely unerwater.
As you say, instead of the lab facility on a ship in deep space, it could have been in a lab on the bottom of an ocean on some far flung planet.
The underwater setting might have tempted Caneron to direct it even
The whole android built by androids subplot could have potentially been interesting but that fell flat too.
The pirates were the more interesting characters. They could have happily carried the movie themselves.

 

[Ramatuelle]

Winona Ryder RUINED Resurrection, an already challenged film to start with. RUINED. IT. The Colonial Marines in that film were also the worst.

They wanted Winona's character to be the new Newt. NO, no and again no, nope not happening.

 

[Ramatuelle]

Do not get me started about the Jolly Roger [that was what the newborn alien was being called back then] no dont. Dont get me started.

If ever there was a moment that screamed "Better get HR Giger on the phone, STAT!!" that was when they were designing that creature, a true design abomination and not in a good way.

 

[Sachiel]

a true design abomination and not in a good way.

 

[Ramatuelle]

HR Giger should have sued for the defamation of his prior work.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

Horrible design. And to think it was originally going to have both male and female private parts dangling down there.

 

[Ramatuelle]

I didnt even know that, thanks for the handy mental images that conjured. FML

LOL

 

[Zurdo95D]

 

[a-dev]

They were in cahoots all along. That scene where the Alien looks into Jonesy's carrier? Receiving instructions.

 

[abake]

Jones told the alien the cat-food tins were in the Narcissus.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

Not exactly filling me with hype...
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/2023/03/0...PHaajaSAbr-l6OK-QkM08u7iTBdkOweOqZDU1UeePwGYk

 

[ironwez20]

The Ripley clone, somehow mixed with Alien DNA and the Alien Queen having a womb was just silly nonsense. Then the newborn creature. Oh dear.
Agree the underwater sequence was the best part of the film. Interesting concept to have it set almost entirely unerwater.
As you say, instead of the lab facility on a ship in deep space, it could have been in a lab on the bottom of an ocean on some far flung planet.
The underwater setting might have tempted Caneron to direct it even
The whole android built by androids subplot could have potentially been interesting but that fell flat too.
The pirates were the more interesting characters. They could have happily carried the movie themselves.

That newborn alien thing was disgusting to me as a kid and me now. That whole death serene is gross to me and honestly the whole movie was disgusting to me tbh.