The Alien Franchise Discussion

[abake]

Yes Cameron played fast and loose with some of the lead-in continuity, particularly with regard to how the events of the first film were referenced. Obviously Kane never said that he "saw thousands of eggs there" but it was decent enough shorthand to get those unfamiliar with the original up to speed.



In my head canon there were probably some internal Company politics at play immediately after the events of the first film that prevented them from exploring LV-426 further. Heads probably rolled after the Nostromo fiasco, maybe some higher ups lost their jobs, "had accidents," etc., and those that succeeded them had pet projects on other planets that they diverted resources to or what have you.



Maybe executives above Burke's pay grade *did* have the planet surveyed and were simply playing the long game until the colonists stumbled upon the derelict themselves (so as to never leave a tell-tale paper trail like the one that Ripley discovered on Burke.) Or maybe like the Xenomorphs "not showing up on infrared" the entire Derelict ship was made out of some material that didn't show on survey scopes. It is "alien" in origin after all.

Those are some very good points...
I especially like the idea of the derelict not showing up on the scans, after all, the Nostromo crew only zero in on it because of the beacon. And the cover up after such a major disaster also sounds plausible. It would've been nice to put a line about it though... "why don't you go back and check the company records?" "we did, they were gone, a fire...".

 

[xipotec]

I think the answer is even easier than all that.

Why one robot? The felt that all that was needed.

It?s obvious ASH has no idea what the Alien is. I am sure the company had more of a mind to extract alien technology over bioweapons. Once they realized what they had, the grunt crew became expendable and possible hosts for more specimens.

I also think the whole reason they send Ripley out there was to silence her. I think they knew very well that the marines and guest would never get out alive. I am sure they were aware that the colonists were already dead and what happened to them.

Burke was the middle man to ensure they got the prize. He was expendable also in their eyes. He probably knew that as well eventually, but like a good company man, he saw the bonus involved and kept going.


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[Khev]

The ALIENS rpg that came out in the late 80's/early 90's actually had some really sound "EU backstory" to the technology shown on the film. It's been decades now since I poured through (and yes played) the material but IIRC it stated that there was such a global arms race (so to speak) to colonize the stars that other forms of tech were sidelined and therefore didn't keep up with the advancements in space travel. Which is why even the most advanced marines still fire metal cartridges instead of lasers, scanning displays are low res, etc.

 

[abake]

I think the answer is even easier than all that.

Why one robot? The felt that all that was needed.

It?s obvious ASH has no idea what the Alien is. I am sure the company had more of a mind to extract alien technology over bioweapons. Once they realized what they had, the grunt crew became expendable and possible hosts for more specimens.

I also think the whole reason they send Ripley out there was to silence her. I think they knew very well that the marines and guest would never get out alive. I am sure they were aware that the colonists were already dead and what happened to them.

Burke was the middle man to ensure they got the prize. He was expendable also in their eyes. He probably knew that as well eventually, but like a good company man, he saw the bonus involved and kept going.


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Agreed on that.
On Ripley's and the CM's mission though, I'm liking Khev's cover-up theory better.

 

[ZE_501]

The ALIENS rpg that came out in the late 80's/early 90's actually had some really sound "EU backstory" to the technology shown on the film. It's been decades now since I poured through (and yes played) the material but IIRC it stated that there was such a global arms race (so to speak) to colonize the stars that other forms of tech were sidelined and therefore didn't keep up with the advancements in space travel. Which is why even the most advanced marines still fire metal cartridges instead of lasers, scanning displays are low res, etc.

Ballistic weapons I can buy, the low-resolution, analogue stuff ... is an implausible albeit necessary ret-con. One of the fathers of Cyberpunk (and one of my favourite authors) William Gibson has pointed out that his award-winning early work (which heavily influenced and helped shape films like The Matrix) totally missed the mark on things like smartphones. He's nailed so much near-future tech and cultural mores in his work, particularly his later books ... but like many writers he totally missed the impact things like the internet would have on consumer tech, never mind the military.

 

[abake]

So all this Aliens talk got me in the mood to watch Aliens again last night. I went with the Director's Cut, and as with my previous watchings of this version, I can't help but feel that the theatrical release is better.

I think the only scene that I like better in the DC is the background on Ripley's daughter. And even that is a bit iffy, 'cause she's all business afterwards in the debriefing scene. A bit cold for someone who has just found out her daughter died as a 66 year old woman... There's also some minor scenes with Newt and Hicks that work nicely. The Dwayne-Ellen moment is not one of them though. That was just completely unnecessary, the romantic interest was already perfectly set up, and the scene was just too schmalzy and completely broke up the tension of the moment.
I also much prefer how in the theatrical cut you go into Hadley's Hope knowing about as much as the CM's, it just makes the whole thing so much more tense. I mean, it's obvious you know it'll be a mess, but you're not sure, so it's much more interesting. And the sentry guns scene doesn't do much for me.

So I think from now on I'll just watch the theatrical cut.

 

[Khev]

I too think that the theatrical cut is the superior film (though I actually quite like Hicks and Ripley exchanging first names.) It's smoother and more polished and like you said the marines' arrival on LV-426 is even more suspenseful without any context at all regarding what they're walking into. And while I think the Sentry guns are definitely "cool" they also give the survivors a measurable safety net of defense. In the theatrical cut there's *nothing* between them and the monsters save for a couple of hastily welded doors. Much more tense that way.

 

[abake]

Yeah, the director's cut definitely suffers from wanting to show too much.
Not surprisingly, I also much prefer the theatrical cut over the DC for Alien...

 

[Khev]

I saw the ALIEN DC when it was released theatrically in 2003 but I don't know that I've watched it since. Was there anything major added beyond the Dallas/Brett egg chamber?

 

[a-dev]

Yes Cameron played fast and loose with some of the lead-in continuity, particularly with regard to how the events of the first film were referenced. Obviously Kane never said that he "saw thousands of eggs there" but it was decent enough shorthand to get those unfamiliar with the original up to speed.

You've just given me a flashback which may answer my long held question of which movie I saw first - Alien or Aliens. I think I saw Aliens first...and numerous times before I ever saw the original. You made me recollect an intense curiosity I believe I had during any scene in Aliens that referenced the first film - such as the board meeting with the images of the Nostromo crew coming up on the screen.....yep...definitely getting a strong flashback of my earliest viewing of Alien and being fascinated by the Nostromo and all these characters that I'd only seen in pictures before. So it's much like Star Wars where I saw ESB and ROTJ many times before getting around to the original.

Well, this will explain why I'm inclined to defend Aliens. It was my first look into this universe.

Ballistic weapons I can buy, the low-resolution, analogue stuff ... is an implausible albeit necessary ret-con.

Agree.

Yeah, the director's cut definitely suffers from wanting to show too much.
Not surprisingly, I also much prefer the theatrical cut over the DC for Alien...

Disagree with you and Khev about which cut of Aliens is best - I'll go Director's cut. Pretty much love everything it added including the pre-attack colony scenes. The last time I saw the theatrical cut the whole thing just felt so rushed through.

I saw the ALIEN DC when it was released theatrically in 2003 but I don't know that I've watched it since. Was there anything major added beyond the Dallas/Brett egg chamber?

Some notable things that I can think of

-Lambert physically attacking Ripley for almost leaving them outside
-the full view of the Alien suspended amongst the hanging chains before it later descends and takes Brett. Not sure how I feel about that. I think it may have been better not to see it at all until its tail unfurls behind him and the famous mouth shot.
-you also see Parker and Ripley rushing into the room screaming after Brett as the Alien drags him up into the vents.

Not sure what else - Ridley actually shortened many shots as I understand

 

[Wor-Gar]

I saw the ALIEN DC when it was released theatrically in 2003 but I don't know that I've watched it since. Was there anything major added beyond the Dallas/Brett egg chamber?

The Ripley slap to Lambert.

 

[abake]

It's lambert punching Ripley. Quite hard, in fact.
Also, I think the DC has the crew listen to the derelict ship's transmission.

 

[Wor-Gar]

It's lambert punching Ripley. Quite hard, in fact.

Oops, got that backwards but yeah. I remember watching Alien on cable once and that scene suddenly happened and it really threw me... had no idea I was watching an extended cut.

I wonder why that little bit was cut from the original? Its seconds. And I like the tension its adds to the two women, especially when they end up trying to survive together in the end.

 

[punisher1974]

I prefer the original version to Alien and the Director's cut to Aliens. Like A-Dev said after watching the extended the theatrical is way to short when dealing with the colony. Plus I really like the turrets and Aliens scene. Help builds up the tension to me. Alien for me is almost perfect. Love the design on everything and the atmosphere pulls me in.

 

[xipotec]

I am in the theatrical cut club as well....

The pacing is all off in the DC.......not sure what was really brought to the table in that cut.

The extra scenes also seem poorly shot and filmed.

The effects on LV426 look terrible also.


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[Khev]

Some notable things that I can think of

-Lambert physically attacking Ripley for almost leaving them outside
-the full view of the Alien suspended amongst the hanging chains before it later descends and takes Brett. Not sure how I feel about that. I think it may have been better not to see it at all until its tail unfurls behind him and the famous mouth shot.
-you also see Parker and Ripley rushing into the room screaming after Brett as the Alien drags him up into the vents.

Not sure what else - Ridley actually shortened many shots as I understand

Aha, thank you. Okay I was actually more familiar with those scenes than I had thought. I must have watched the DC more than just the 2003 theatrical release then.

Going back to the ALIENS theatrical vs. SE cuts even though I prefer the theatrical it definitely isn't another "SW SE" situation. There's nothing particularly offensive about any of the extra scenes to the point that I actively pretend they don't exist, say they aren't "canon" or what have you. In fact whenever I just want "more" of ALIENS then I'm fine watching the SE for no other reason than to just spend more time in that particular universe. But with regard to polish of narrative and filmmaking quality (Bill Paxton's acting during his "sharp sticks" speech is just atrocious for instance) I side with the theatrical cut.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Khev, do you think the Queen planned the whole thing? Letting one go to the Nostromo as advertisement to lure the colony?

The Queen didn't die in space... she's hiding on a small mystery planet plotting her return. And its going to take all the clones of Ripley in the galaxy to stop her.

 

[Khev]

Khev, do you think the Queen planned the whole thing? Letting one go to the Nostromo as advertisement to lure the colony?

Well I assume that the Queen didn't exist until bursting out of Newt's father so I would say no she didn't plan anything with regard to the Nostromo.

The Queen didn't die in space... she's hiding on a small mystery planet plotting her return. And its going to take all the clones of Ripley in the galaxy to stop her.

I must say I am a bit surprised that the original Queen that Ripley blasted into space never reappeared in a sequel. It's a pleasant surprise because I'm sure it would have been stupid, but a surprise nonetheless.

 

[a-dev]

Well I assume that the Queen didn't exist until bursting out of Newt's father so I would say no she didn't plan anything with regard to the Nostromo.

It never occurred to me that the Queen might have been born of Newt's father I have to say. Maybe she was but not necessarily....

I must say I am a bit surprised that the original Queen that Ripley blasted into space never reappeared in a sequel. It's a pleasant surprise because I'm sure it would have been stupid, but a surprise nonetheless.

She'll be brought back in Disney's Alien World. In the climax of the movie she will unwittingly defend our human heroes against the even more biggerer and dangerouser Indominus Xenomorph.

 

[Wor-Gar]

She'll be brought back in Disney's Alien World. In the climax of the movie she will unwittingly defend our human heroes against the even more biggerer and dangerouser Indominus Xenomorph.

Strike this from consciousness because that is something they would totally do.

The Trevorrow Alien Plus.... an albino alien King...!!!!

And somewhere on the planet a young a-dev 2 has found his favorite film... forever...