The Alien Franchise Discussion

[Johnny Utah]

Happy 71st birthday Sigourney!

 

[xipotec]

Happy 71st birthday Sigourney!

LIAR!!!!!!


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[Khev]

LIAR!!!!!!

You will not take her from me!!

lol

 

[JAWS]

With regard to ALIEN and ALIENS I can see why many would prefer the original, especially if you saw it in the theater in 1979 and were a fan for 7 long years prior to the sequel. But ALIENS is really only surpassed by SW/ESB and FOTR for me. Truly an all-time favorite. The frenetic style and grainy cinematography really compliment the premise and tone perfectly IMO. One of the most thrilling, "badass" and yet simultaneously terrifying films ever made IMO. The intensity of the combat even outdoes Platoon (which followed in theaters a couple months later) in some areas.

Seeing ALIENS in the theater was a special moment in my early teen years.. Again I lived out in the country.. No cable TV. Didnt go to the theaters a lot.. So I had no idea that an ALIEN sequel was coming out.

I agree with much of what you said.. I just don't rank it as high as you do. It is a 5 out of 5 star movie for me though.

The experience of watching that first teaser trailer in the theater before Top Gun is seared into my brain to this day:

In my head canon there were probably some internal Company politics at play immediately after the events of the first film that prevented them from exploring LV-426 further. Heads probably rolled after the Nostromo fiasco, maybe some higher ups lost their jobs, "had accidents," etc., and those that succeeded them had pet projects on other planets that they diverted resources to or what have you.

Remember this is 50 years after the evens of ALIEN.. I am sure that most of the evil company men were gone.. Remember that Burke sent people out there after hearing Ripley's story..

I honestly believe that the company people at Ripley's hearing did not believe her story.

I always assumed that there were a few Upper management at Wayland during the events of ALIEN that wanted ASH to bring back any sort of ALIEN tech or being at any cost.. After the ship blew up and Ripley went missing these men died and their ambitions with them.

I too think that the theatrical cut is the superior film (though I actually quite like Hicks and Ripley exchanging first names.) It's smoother and more polished and like you said the marines' arrival on LV-426 is even more suspenseful without any context at all regarding what they're walking into. And while I think the Sentry guns are definitely "cool" they also give the survivors a measurable safety net of defense. In the theatrical cut there's *nothing* between them and the monsters save for a couple of hastily welded doors. Much more tense that way.

I like seeing Ripley mourn her Daughter and seeing the colonist living their lives on the planet. It humanizes all of them more.

But the DC is just too long and really slows down what was a perfectly paced movie.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Remember this is 50 years after the evens of ALIEN.. I am sure that most of the evil company men were gone..

I imagine that in the future the wealthy will live very, very long lives. Living now to 100 is not unheard of. Its quite possible that 'company men' live into their 150s easy... or perhaps can even download their consciousness into new bodies.

 

[JAWS]

I imagine that in the future the wealthy will live very, very long lives. Living now to 100 is not unheard of. Its quite possible that 'company men' live into their 150s easy... or perhaps can even download their consciousness into new bodies.

Well again it does not explain why the "company men" did not send out the colonist to the ship until Ripley told Burke the story..

No I think they were long gone by then.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Yeah, you are right, Cameron screwed up that logic.

 

[abake]

A couple more thoughts on Aliens before I start my musings on A3.

I actually like Weaver's acting better in Alien than in Aliens. Those little moments with Ash are amazing. When she confronts him (it?) in the lab about breaking quarantine regulations, and later after Dallas' death how she confronts him again about "collating" information, are effing brilliant. I don't think anything in Aliens is at that wonderful level of controlled intensity. In Aliens you can see she's acting, in Alien it's much more visceral.

I've only been subjecting my son to the Alien franchise (he's just turned 17 but hates horror movies) in the last year or so, and I found his reaction to Alien and Aliens quite interesting: he said Alien was the scarier movie, but that the tension in Aliens was much higher. So there you go... each movie does its job perfectly.
I'm looking forward to watching Alien 3 with him and my daughter (she loves horror movies).

 

[Wor-Gar]

Why does he hate horror movies?

And is someone who hates that type of thing the best judge of it?

I think I'd like to know what your daughter thinks.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Can someone explain this for me?

The company doesn't believe Ripley in Aliens, saying she's crazy and she loses her pilot license. Yet when they lose contact with the colony, suddenly they believe her and need her to go in with the marines. I get that they're slimy lying pricks and send Burke with her, but the briefing scene with Ripley doesn't make sense if they're basically admitting the aliens exist a minute later when Gorman and Burke pop over.

 

[abake]

Why does he hate horror movies?

And is someone who hates that type of thing the best judge of it?

I think I'd like to know what your daughter thinks.

He gets scared, simple as that. He just doesn't like them.
My daughter had the same opinion, she thought Alien was scarier, but Aliens more intense.

Can someone explain this for me?

The company doesn't believe Ripley in Aliens, saying she's crazy and she loses her pilot license. Yet when they lose contact with the colony, suddenly they believe her and need her to go in with the marines. I get that they're slimy lying pricks and send Burke with her, but the briefing scene with Ripley doesn't make sense if they're basically admitting the aliens exist a minute later when Gorman and Burke pop over.

Taking Ripley back was all Burke. I don't think the company had anything to do with it.
Burke is the one who tells the colonists to go check out the (miraculously) undiscovered Derelict Ship, and when the colony goes silent, Burke goes "hey, maybe this crazy chick was right after all, so let's make the best out of this crappy situation and try and make some profit!".

 

[Wor-Gar]

Aliens is likely considered more intense because Cameron did a good job making you care about the characters.

Alien is scary because of the sheer "boo" factor... but it is hard to warm up to any of the Nostromo crew at first. Ridley had that cold, distant, British style -- not a lot of warmth of camaraderie amongst the cast. As a kid, on first viewing, the only ones I actually liked was Parker, because he was funny and tough, and Ash, because I felt sorry for him when everyone was always dissing him.

 

[abake]

I don't see the emotional investment in the characters so differently between the two films.
In Aliens there's the core characters that make it till the end: Ripley and Burke (protagonist and antagonist), Hicks, Hudson, Bishop, Vazquez, Gorman and Newt (cleverly enough 8, with Newt being the Jonesy character). The rest are all killed off rather quickly, so although some of them are cool (like Drake and Frost), we don't really have much time to "like" them.
And to me, the characters in Alien are just as well written/acted as those last eight. If not more so. There's a lot of nuance in their characterisation, a lot of understated depth, whereas Cameron's characters are more generic. I'd say the only truly interesting one is Bishop.

Not that I don't like the characters in Aliens (well, except for Hudson, he's just terribly obnoxious and over-acts in absolutely every scene), they are all great and well played.

 

[Wor-Gar]

There's a lot of nuance in their characterisation, a lot of understated depth, whereas Cameron's characters are more generic.

That's exactly what I meant, and the largest difference between the two movies.

Alien is very nuanced, so much so it takes multiple viewings to catch all the subtleties between characters. With Cameron, as always, his character traits are in your face, their relationships blatantly stated from line one. Nuance is not something Cameron relishes in. Which I believe is the core reason I view Alien as being closer to art and Aliens as closer to popcorn.

 

[JAWS]

That's exactly what I meant, and the largest difference between the two movies.

Alien is very nuanced, so much so it takes multiple viewings to catch all the subtleties between characters. With Cameron, as always, his character traits are in your face, their relationships blatantly stated from line one. Nuance is not something Cameron relishes in. Which I believe is the core reason I view Alien as being closer to art and Aliens as closer to popcorn.

ALIEN is a masterpiece of Cinema
ALIENS is a great ****ing movie.

 

[Wor-Gar]

ALIEN is a masterpiece of Cinema
ALIENS is a great ****ing movie.

I'm willing to go with that.

In general, popcorn is my preference over art. Alien is one of the few movies where I see the slow-burn style and nuance as better than the excitement and energy of Aliens.

Oddly, that same style bores me in Blade Runner. I wish Cameron had done his thing for a Blade Runner 2. Can you imagine: a team of rough-and-tumble android hunters is ambushed by a kill-squad of specially trained and psychotic replicants bent on starting a civil war.

 

[abake]

That's exactly what I meant, and the largest difference between the two movies.

Alien is very nuanced, so much so it takes multiple viewings to catch all the subtleties between characters. With Cameron, as always, his character traits are in your face, their relationships blatantly stated from line one. Nuance is not something Cameron relishes in. Which I believe is the core reason I view Alien as being closer to art and Aliens as closer to popcorn.

I was reacting to your statement that "Cameron did a good job making you care about the characters", as by and large, I actually do care more about the characters in Alien than the ones in Aliens.
But, yeah, agreed, Cameron is very "in your face". Usually not in a bad way. Hopefully he is back on form in the Avatar sequels.

 

[abake]

ALIEN is a masterpiece of Cinema
ALIENS is a great ****ing movie.

Can't argue with that.

 

[FlyAndFight]

ALIEN is a masterpiece of Cinema
ALIENS is a great ****ing movie.

Good analysis.

 

[ZE_501]

ALIEN is a masterpiece of Cinema
ALIENS is a great ****ing movie.

I must concur.