The closing of the political threads is really becoming annoying

[barbelith]

So you are saying that Conservatives tend to be more centered on realism and libs tend to be more centered on fantasy? Can't wait to see how that "other guy" responds to this!

I think it's a gender divide. Male geeks tend to be conservative and female geeks tend to be liberal; fantasy attracts female fans and hardware attracts male fans. It's just a numbers game (speaking very generally) and not much to do with politics per se. I know liberal guys with Hot Toys military figures and conservative Tolkien fans, so I wouldn't read too much into it really.

 

[The Ween]

Being an independent, I think the political threads have equal bashing from both sides. Since I'm in the middle, I catch it from both sides.

What I don't understand is, why all Dems are labeled liberal and leftists, and all Reps are labeled right winged and conservatives? That's far from true. Most people are closer to the center.

 

[barbelith]

I think a large amount of the population is confused about how to define liberal and conservative. To me, a conservative is someone who believes in smaller, less intrusive government, lower taxes and the freedom to pursue their happiness.

I think the confusion arises from different planks in the parties. Just as all liberals aren't the same, neither are all conservatives. For example a neoconservative would not share your definition at all, while a social conservative would be quite happy with an intrusive government provided it's intrusive in the right ways. By the same token many liberals want to cut down on government spending and other things that don't fit the stereotype.

Actually if we could push past the stereotypes and just talk issue to issue I think a lot of us could find common ground (as for example in my response to you in the welfare thread, although disappointingly you interpreted this as "shutting me up" or some silliness).

Liberal and conservative don't really have much meaning in themselves anymore. Maybe it's time to ditch them and get new labels - or ditch labels altogether.

 

[Nuka Cola Kidd]

I don't really think there's a disrespect for conservatives, and I don't think it's a minority here. Many fans of the 1/6 world is far more rightist then leftist.

Really?

"republicans can lick my butt"

and my fav cause it was a response to me

"Going by the amount of intellect that went into this post, I assume you're a Republican?"

I dont enjoy being called stupid.

There are tons of these types saying in all the closed threads. I just dont have all the time to point them out.

 

[hoodonit00]

So you are saying that Conservatives tend to be more centered on realism and libs tend to be more centered on fantasy? Can't wait to see how that "other guy" responds to this! Should be interesting.

McCain/Palin '08

This is not a loaded question at all. Just my opinion.

 

[CelticPredator]

Well....i've delt with more stupid republicans, then smart ones in my time....but I would never go as far as to say ALL republicans are stupid. Just some. Some very stupid close minded idiots who have no idea how the world works, other then their own twisted world of reality.....im lookin at YOU Bill O'RLY!(yes I did that).


And there is totally some stupid liberals as well. (But I dont deal with them as much...since I live in a "red" state).

In the words of President Dale....Why can't we all just.....get along!

 

[Nuka Cola Kidd]

hmmm...and yet Bill ORiley didnt get demoted for being extremely biased at the conventions unlike the two MSNBC reporters..haha id much rather watch fox news then any other, but then again i guess a lot feel the same way being that fox kills any other in ratings (cnn,MSNBC etc)

 

[CelticPredator]

I hate the guy. He's so one sided it drives me nuts. And screw Nancy Grace too. She's an idiot too....I dont like Fox period....so, I wouldnt watch that channel ever.

 

[Nuka Cola Kidd]

Nancy Grace..haha now thats a lady whos not all there

 

[CelticPredator]

She said Heath was murdered....and how did someone murder Mr. Ledger? Smothering him with a pillow....jesus freakin christ....I hate her.

 

[Nuka Cola Kidd]

And she screams into the tv..thats what gets me everytime haha

 

[CelticPredator]

I hate this lady!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDvJB9JoyBU

 

[Anzik]

I think the confusion arises from different planks in the parties. Just as all liberals aren't the same, neither are all conservatives. For example a neoconservative would not share your definition at all, while a social conservative would be quite happy with an intrusive government provided it's intrusive in the right ways. By the same token many liberals want to cut down on government spending and other things that don't fit the stereotype.

Actually if we could push past the stereotypes and just talk issue to issue I think a lot of us could find common ground (as for example in my response to you in the welfare thread, although disappointingly you interpreted this as "shutting me up" or some silliness).

Liberal and conservative don't really have much meaning in themselves anymore. Maybe it's time to ditch them and get new labels - or ditch labels altogether.

Actually it comes down to the way in which ideas are expressed. I have no problem with an opposing view. I try my best to keep a level head and not to get personal. I think your posts come off as condescending and elitist as you have the answers and the rest of us who may disagree with you are just stupid. Exemplified by the emoticon in response to my rebuttals. I'm sorry but laughing at someone else's ideas might cause a certain irritation with you and render it impossible to have a civil discussion. You can't, on one hand, call to push past stereotypes when you make massive generalizations and insult things that are valuable to them and then on the other to think they should listen to your ideas.

 

[barbelith]

You can't, on one hand, call to push past stereotypes when you make massive generalizations and insult things that are valuable to them and then on the other to think they should listen to your ideas.

Some things are worthy of insult. I'm not going to take the idea that Creationism has a place in science class seriously, for example. And if that's condescending and elitist then I'll happily be guilty as charged.

As for "massive generalizations" I think your now-defunct echo chamber pretty much takes the cake in that department. You've pretty much lost the moral high ground for a while after having read those discussions, so I'm not going to bother with the rest of your charges.

Now you and I were the only two people to try to reach across the divide and find common ground in the welfare thread. You deserve credit for that, and while we may have very different opinions and despite your juvenile locker room exercise, you're all right with me.

 

[Darklord Dave]

To me, a conservative is someone who believes in smaller, less intrusive government, lower taxes and the freedom to pursue their happiness. They don't necessarily want the government's help but they also don't want the government placing obstacles in the way. A conservative believes the government should be the final option and not the first.

I think that's what a conservative used to be. Unfortunately the recent concessions to the evangelicals have made the Republican party completely unacceptable to many people who would agree with everything you've said defines a conservative. And it's that aspect of the conservative movement that want the government to decide what people do with their own bodies, who they can marry and what other people's children can learn about in school.

 

[Anzik]

I don't believe another's views should be insulted, and I don't believe that anyone is better than anyone else. I believe an individual's values can be better, but we are all flawed to the same extent. Myself included very much. As for my locker room antics, sorry, but when I feel I'm being mocked for my opinion I get a little pissy. The internet is a bad example to use when discussing how we, as individuals act, because we all know people online say things they would never say face to face. I would be more than happy to discuss any matter with anyone, but if my opinions get the eye roll it nullifies the discussion. If I had moral high ground I would walk away. I'm not that civilized. So your flaw is that you think you're smarter than other people and my flaw is impatience with ideas of superiority.
Now if you want to discuss without using inflammatory and dismissive language I would be happy to discuss anything with you.
Creationism in school for example. I don't want creationism taught, but I also don't want it relegated to the realm of fairies and gnomes either. Despite the disclaimer kids are taught evolution and Darwinism as fact. When its taught there is no constant rhetoric of "this is what we think", or "What we believe at the moment is..." the theory is taught as a given, just as the Earth is flat was once taught as fact. Conversely children in religious homes are not taught that their ideas are belief and not fact. The irony is that the answer to both is the same, we don't know. Thats where we get into problems when you have a religious person that believes in a literal biblical genesis, and a firm adherent to scientific theory believes it absolutely. I think its equally arrogant for the religious person to assume he knows how God would do anything, as it is to think that humans have figured out the Universe in 111 years of atomic theory.
By all means do NOT teach creationism in schools, but at the same time don't teach that its nonsense and has no place in an institution of learning. It creates another example of class warfare between the 'enlightened' and the 'faithful'.
And this is the same place where the political threads get so far off course. Its a big schoolyard game of "You're stupid!", "No you're stupid!"
Regardless, I have had enough of politics and toys. For a long time I just avoided the sandbox and OT sections because it erupts into this pissing contest and gets everyone agitated. So I think I'm going back to doing just that. I am going to look at everything through a simple lens from now on. Because if any of us were running for office we wouldn't be taken seriously because we collect dolls. No hard feelings, everyone.

 

[Agent0028]

Being an independent, I think the political threads have equal bashing from both sides. Since I'm in the middle, I catch it from both sides.

That's about where I fit. The other thing that bugs me, and I keep saying although it goes nowhere is that we need to have respect for each other and our leaders regardless of whether we agree with their ideas and policies or not. Instead people insist on believing their way is better. And that goes for damn near everyone in the political threads.

 

[devilof76]

Actually if we could push past the stereotypes and just talk issue to issue I think a lot of us could find common ground...

Or the discussion could turn to principles, in which case the real divisions would become perfectly, undeniably clear.

(as for example in my response to you in the welfare thread, although disappointingly you interpreted this as "shutting me up" or some silliness).

Don't you think that's a bit presumptuous?

Maybe it's time to ditch them and get new labels - or ditch labels altogether.

Which would make it much harder to identify underlying political principles behind people's points of view. Of course, when everyone assumes that the government should be engineering the direction of society, there really is no difference to identify.

 

[barbelith]

I don't want creationism taught, but I also don't want it relegated to the realm of fairies and gnomes either.

But that's just it. Creationism is in the realm of fairies and gnomes. You can insist otherwise as loudly and often as you want but at the end of the day there's not even the first piece of evidence that God exists at all, let alone created the universe a few thousand years ago.

Our democratic nature and fierce anti-intellectualism has led to a cultural belief that all ideas are equal. But that's just not true, I'm sorry. The idea that triangles have four sides does not have merit. The idea that the Earth is flat does not need to be treated with respect.

 

[RJMacReady16]

The idea that the Earth is flat does not need to be treated with respect.

I agree. And in 100 years there will be a new form of pseudo-science floating around which will cause people to regard today's evolution as the flat earth theory.

These things happen.

So call a theory a theory and everyone remains somewhat happy---or at least satisfied.