The current state of DC 1/6 collectibles . . . DEAD

[user 64404]

As we all know, Zack Snyder's movies have no questionable or poorly received choices.

But thats what i am saying, There are two types of directors, the one which we ignore their mistakes and say they are perfect before and after watching his movie like Nolan and the second is the one we criticised everything before watching the movie like Snyder or Michael Bay.
Nolan's Batman trilogy has more mistakes on screen than Snyder's (MOS and BVS ULTIMATE EDITION) but we tend to ignore Nolan's because of his name.

 

[Saintv1]

Ayn Rand individualism is better than 1930's good because you're innately good.

It's far more interesting and layered for a character like Batman or Superman, who have a lot of hurdles to face, personal and external, and to in the face of trying challenges and scenarios to always CHOOSE the option of being good.

For me a Superman that suffers the very human condition of doubt and uncertainty, for him to choose to continuously do good for those that are even against him is the best ideal that Superman can inspire in people.

I'll take this, however much Snyder may fall short of portraying the characters in the best way possible, over text book golden age superhero garbage, every. Single. Day.

And in actuality I think he did a rather good job of showing this individualism posited against superheroism.

A person seeing a born good, can never do harm character always doing good no matter what isn't going to come away with anything. A person seeing a fallible character who has immense power but suffers in ways that anyone else suffers, but continuously chooses to do the better from any option presented, that's what inspires people. People are accountable for themselves, individualism is great.

I agree that characters should not be perfectly good, or infallible, or without doubt, or ego, selfishness.

I just don't think that Batman should be an oafish, unthinking revenge-machine who uses violence to make himself feel better and for little to no other measurable benefit, for example. Well, unless the story is about how Batman has gone insane and has to go to prison for the rest of his life. That might be acceptable.

That's just my preference, though.

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[user 64404]

I agree that characters should not be perfectly good, or infallible, or without doubt, or ego, selfishness.

I just don't think that Batman should be an oafish, unthinking revenge-machine who uses violence to make himself feel better and for little to no other measurable benefit, for example. Well, unless the story is about how Batman has gone insane and has to go to prison for the rest of his life. That might be acceptable.

That's just my preference, though.

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But thats is Nolan's Batman and not Snyder's you're describing oO

 

[hbhf]

Nolan's Batman trilogy has more mistakes on screen than Snyder's.

Sorry, but no. Can't even remotely agree here. Like at all. This isn't even a dig at Snyder; I just do not, under any circumstances buy the idea that his movies are superior to Nolan's or have less flaws.

 

[user 64404]

Sorry, but no. Can't even remotely agree here. Like at all. This isn't even a dig at Snyder; I just do not, under any circumstances buy the idea that his movies are superior to Nolan's or have less flaws.

Snyder's mistake is moving too fast in the plot to make a Justice League in 3 movies, Nolan created a Batman who retire after his lover dies for 8 years ......

They are even, they both make mistakes but just one get excess criticism

 

[hbhf]

Snyder's mistake is moving too fast in the plot to make a Justice League in 3 movies, Nolan created a Batman who retire after his lover dies for 8 years ......

They are even, they both make mistakes but just one get excess criticism

Your problem seems to be that you keep looking at this from the angle of how close things adhere to the comics or set up a universe, which is not what makes a good film. On a objective level, I rank Nolan's movies as better than Snyder's. You can make the claim that Snyder better honored the source material and had better costumes, but that's not what makes a good movie to most people.

Likewise, your continued claim that Snyder's movies get more criticism than Nolan's because Nolan's name helps him ignores that there are a lot of people who criticize Snyder's films more because they legitimately think Nolan's are better movies.

 

[user 64404]

Your problem seems to be that you keep looking at this from the angle of how close things adhere to the comics or set up a universe, which is not what makes a good film. On a objective level, I rank Nolan's movies as better than Snyder's. You can make the claim that Snyder better honored the source material and had better costumes, but that's not what makes a good movie to most people.

Likewise, your continued claim that Snyder's movies get more criticism than Nolan's because Nolan's name helps him ignores that there are a lot of people who criticize Snyder's films more because they legitimately think Nolan's are better movies.

Soo why one of the most regular critics about Snyder's characters is that his heroes kills, superman kills Zod and Batman Kills a few minions.
in Superman 2,Richard Lester kills Zod too and his Clark is an *******(he bullied a normal being with his superpowers in the end of the movie).
In Nolan's trilogy, Batman chooses to kill Ra's al ghul, Two face and Talia and says nothing when Catwoman shoots Bane.

 

[hbhf]

Soo why one of the most regular critics about Snyder's characters is that his heroes kills, superman kills Zod and Batman Kills a few minions.
in Superman 2,Richard Lester kills Zod too and his Clark is an *******(he bullied a normal being with his superpowers in the end of the movie).
In Nolan's trilogy, Batman chooses to kill Ra's al ghul, Two face and Talia and says nothing when Catwoman shoots Bane.

You just listed several movies that are were well received despite breaks from the established source material. You're making my point for me. How much something adheres to the comics does not mean it's a good movie.

 

[Saintv1]

Snyder's mistake is moving too fast in the plot to make a Justice League in 3 movies, Nolan created a Batman who retire after his lover dies for 8 years ......

They are even, they both make mistakes but just one get excess criticism

Shrug; the struggle with selfish choices is definitely the central conflict for Bruce in Nolan's trilogy, but if you think Batfleck is better on that score, I honestly don't know what to say.

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[user 64404]

You just listed several movies that are were well received despite breaks from the established source material. You're making my point for me. How much something adheres to the comics does not mean it's a good movie.

Its not about source material, but how people reacts before and after watching the movie.
But why is better if they share the same things but when is Snyder the opinions changes to "its bad" simple because it's Snyder's name on it.
They are regarded as better movies just because they have heavy nostalgia fellings and people tends to ignore the mistakes.

 

[hbhf]

Its not about source material, but how people reacts before and after watching the movie.
But why is better if they share the same things but when is Snyder the opinions changes to "its bad" simple because it's Snyder's name on it.
They are regarded as better movies just because they have heavy nostalgia fellings and people tends to ignore the mistakes.

Because maybe people legitimately thought those movies were better. You keep assuming the negativity is solely about Snyder himself and not the possibility that people might have just thought his movies weren't as good as Nolan's or Donner's.

 

[user 64404]

Because maybe people legitimately thought those movies were better. You keep assuming the negativity is solely about Snyder himself and not the possibility that people might have just thought his movies weren't as good as Nolan's or Donner's.

It's more about mass consumption and a kind of alienation from social media than about who is better than the other.
Its a fact that if it comes with the name Nolan in a product, people tends to react more positively than Snyder, an other exemple is how the mistakes from the Star Wars OT tends to be ignored over the mistakes from the PT who is over criticized.

 

[hbhf]

It's more about mass consumption and a kind of alienation from social media than about who is better than the other.
Its a fact that if it comes with the name Nolan in a product, people tends to react more positively than Snyder, an other exemple is how the mistakes from the Star Wars OT tends to be ignored over the mistakes from the PT who is over criticized.

Again, this fails to acknowledge that this perception of Nolan as a better filmmaker may exist because his movies are objectively better. You keep trying to make this about reputations or unfair dog piling. I can tell you with complete sincerity that I knew many normal people who don't follow superhero fandoms or director controversies who, back in 2013, saw Man of Steel and wound up liking it way less than The Dark Knight. Your average person simply does not pay the amount of attention to behind the scenes stuff that us fans do.

 

[user 64404]

Again, this fails to acknowledge that this perception of Nolan as a better filmmaker may exist because his movies are objectively better. You keep trying to make this about reputations or unfair dog piling. I can tell you with complete sincerity that I knew many normal people who don't follow superhero fandoms or director controversies who, back in 2013, saw Man of Steel and wound up liking it way less than The Dark Knight. Your average person simply does not pay the amount of attention to behind the scenes stuff that us fans do.

But those people you're describing they are neutral, we were talking about the internet people or the fandom who tends to create a bubble of reputations of those directors outside and inside the internet.

 

[hbhf]

I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue anymore. Most people are neutral, is my point. If people overwhelmingly felt that Nolan's movies were better than the DCEU ones, that would indicate they simply find them to be better made films, not that they have an implicit bias against Zack Snyder.

 

[rui no onna]

Because maybe people legitimately thought those movies were better. You keep assuming the negativity is solely about Snyder himself and not the possibility that people might have just thought his movies weren't as good as Nolan's or Donner's.

Yep, this. I've got pretty plebeian tastes. The only movies by Nolan that I've watched are the TDK trilogy. I've actually watched more films by Snyder (300, Watchmen and the DCEU films).

I like 300 and Watchmen. His DCEU, not so much. Between TDK and DCEU, I definitely like TDK better and for me, TDK has better replayability factor as well. I think the two DC movies I've rewatched the most are Batman Returns and Batman Begins.

BvS and Justice League, I've watched just twice. BvS was better on rewatch but honestly, not something I find particularly enjoyable.

 

[user 64404]

I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue anymore. Most people are neutral, is my point. If people overwhelmingly felt that Nolan's movies were better than the DCEU ones, that would indicate they simply find them to be better made films, not that they have an implicit bias against Zack Snyder.

We are arguing if there is a bias against Snyder, and one in favor of Nolan.

 

[gmoney5000]

We are arguing if there is a bias against Snyder, and one in favor of Nolan.

Hack Snyder is a hack. He had one entertaining film, 300, the rest were craptastic!

And Nolan is overrated. Memento, Batman Begins, Prestige were great and then everything else after that was mostly good (Inception) to decent (Dunkirk) to terrible (Interstellar).

The scale tips in Nolan's favor. Case closed!

 

[user 64404]

I agree with you about Nolan, but i think Interstellar great, i would put TDKR or Dunkirk in the terrible spot.
I think you're being too harsh against Snyder, he is pretty decent to great in watchmen, Dawn of the Dead(which remains one of the best zombie movies until now), 300 and MOS\BVS(Ultimate Edition), i would put Sucker Punch in the terrible spot.

 

[hbhf]

I'm sure there are some fans who unfairly have a bias against Snyder. But that's not the majority of people and that's not why his films have negative reputations when compared to prior DC movies. The claim being made was that Snyder is objectively a better filmmaker for DC's characters than Nolan and that people only think Nolan's DC movies were better because of nostalgia, which I and others disagreed with. As I said, the problem with that claim is that it pretends there's no reasonable criticism one could possibly make of the Snyder films because the only negativity is just unfair bias against the man himself and not negative assessments of the movies he happens to make.