The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*

[IrishJedi]

Okay, so is your point that "Batman" 1989 is as poopy as "Shrek 2"? Or that TDKR is as good as "Up"? Or that the divide in quality between TDKR and Batman is = to that between "Up" & "Shrek 2"? Because I at any of those notions.

 

[Khev]

When Shrek 2 came out there weren't as many great animated movies as there are now so a mediocre entry drew an enormous crowd, likewise with Batman 89 and the Nolan Batfilms. Heck Burton's Batman was released during a much greater superhero "draught" than the one that existed for Shrek in its respective landscape. Combine that with the impeccable marketing and hype and of course it was a smash.

 

[IrishJedi]

Batmania in 1989 was a legit phenomenon, though. The Shrek stuff didn't even come close. Batman was like the biggest sensation since the SW films. The was more to its success than just the dearth of superhero movies at the time. It's impact on pop culture is still felt today.

 

[Khev]

Yeah, I addended my post to acknowledge that. Oh wait, you said it had "more" to do with the dearth of superhero movies. My bad.

Even Tim Burton was quoted as saying it was a "boring" movie that was more a cultural phenomenon than a good movie and of course he hated the forced inclusion of the Prince songs. Are we to believe that Nicholson had indefinite final cut? I wonder why Burton never released a director's cut without those songs. Maybe he thought it'd be too hard to sync up Jack's dancing with anything else.

Or maybe Batman Returns WAS his unofficial director's cut of 89.

 

[IrishJedi]

I met "than". Dammit.

Fixed.

I'm not a big Burton fan (and believe Returns is more him than the original '89 film) so I don't care if he thinks it's "boring". But I do agree on the Prince stuff. I hated it then at age 17, and I hate it now. But it doesn't trash the movie for me. It's still a legit genre-defining film.

 

[DiFabio]

Star Wars wasn't a legit phenomenon. It was just a clever marketing tool and promoting blitz used by George Lucas to help sell the film. Merchandising and cheap little toys is the best thing to come out of his films, oh that and CGI. You can feel the effects of it's mediocrity even today. Just walk into any retail store.

There's nothing respectable about those cheesy films today. Just nostalgic memories that the little ****ers had that they still carry in their dysfunctional adult lives. Then they try to force it on to their kids who aren't even interested.


Star Wars might have been great back in the 70s and 80s but now, it's nothing more than just a product.








Or something like that.

 

[Khev]

I keep adding stuff to my posts too to keep everyone on their toes.

DiFabio. Dude. Your sarcastic analogy to SW falls flat. Trust me. I *know* how to make a SW analogy. And that's not how you do it. The day Batman appears on ANY "Top 10 All Time Movie" lists (or even top 100) then you can compare it to the phenomenon that was, and is, SW.

 

[IrishJedi]

Star Wars wasn't a legit phenomenon. It was just a clever marketing tool and promoting blitz used by George Lucas to help sell the film. Merchandising and cheap little toys is the best thing to come out of his films, oh that and CGI. You can feel the effects of it's mediocrity even today. Just walk into any retail store.

There's nothing respectable about those cheesy films today. Just nostalgic memories that the little ****ers had that they still carry in their dysfunctional adult lives. Then they try to force it on to their kids who aren't even interested.


Star Wars might have been great back in the 70s and 80s but now, it's nothing more than just a product.




Or something like that.

I like this. Using an analogy to combat Khev's analogy. And a Star Wars one at that.

So, Khev, was Star Wars a huge phenomenon *only* because there was a dearth of high adventure films in the late 70s?

 

[IrishJedi]

DiFabio. Dude. Your sarcastic analogy to SW falls flat. Trust me. I *know* how to make a SW analogy. And that's not how you do it. The day Batman appears on ANY "Top 10 All Time Movie" lists (or even top 100) then you can compare it to the phenomenon that was, and is, SW.

That is a completely different discussion, though. We're talking about the fact that more people went to see Batman in 1989 than TDKR in 2012. You're implying Batman was *only* successful because of the lack of superhero movies at that time, and the marketing.

 

[Darkmatter]

i thought the TDKR was awesome!!!! of course, you had to see and like the first two. what i don't understand is, nolan claims this was the finale in the series, yet he left things opened ended. batman and catwoman eating in the restaurant while alfred looked on, the repair of the bat-signal and john blake having his real name robin revealed, then finding the waterfall entrance to the batcave. when interviewed about the robin character and if there would be a movie, gordon-levit simply smiled and would not reveal a yes or no answer. it sure looks like there will be a fourth to the series.

 

[DiFabio]

So, Khev, was Star Wars a huge phenomenon *only* because there was a dearth of high adventure films in the late 70s?

Exactly, exactly. Look back at the films it was going up against that summer. Smokey and the Bandit? Another James Bond film? Exorcist 2? Of course it captured the imagination of children and was successful. Like I said, it was a hit back in the day, but so was Batman '89. Look at them now. Garbage. Listed and praised out of nostalgia alone. Better films have been made and will be made.

Best thing to come out of Star Wars was special effects and Kenner figures. Other than that? A cheesy 70s rip off of old mythology and a "homage" to Buck Rogers.

 

[DreaAlGhul]

I'm sorry, but I really hope there isn't a reboot with JGL. Mostly because it would have to be similar style to Nolan's since it'd be a spinoff type of film & I just want to see something different for once.

 

[DiFabio]

Even Tim Burton was quoted as saying it was a "boring" movie that was more a cultural phenomenon than a good movie and of course he hated the forced inclusion of the Prince songs. Are we to believe that Nicholson had indefinite final cut? I wonder why Burton never released a director's cut without those songs. Maybe he thought it'd be too hard to sync up Jack's dancing with anything else.

Or maybe Batman Returns WAS his unofficial director's cut of 89.

Yeah, maybe it would be like George Lucas' directors cuts. The cuts that are just so loved and cherished by his fans.

Lucas was clearly satisfied with his original works in 1977, 1980 and 1983. So much so that he's still tinkering with them today.

 

[Darkmatter]

I'm sorry, but I really hope there isn't a reboot with JGL. Mostly because it would have to be similar style to Nolan's since it'd be a spinoff type of film & I just want to see something different for once.

not a reboot, but a 4th film with christian bale, michael caine and gary oldman. still haven't seen the riddler or the penguin.

 

[Khev]

That is a completely different discussion, though. We're talking about the fact that more people went to see Batman in 1989 than TDKR in 2012. You're implying Batman was *only* successful because of the lack of superhero movies at that time, and the marketing.

A lack of superhero movies in general and a complete lack of Batman films. I can recognize a similar trend with regard to SW (if you really want to go there) and LOTR. They're both epic heroic fantasies and regardless of which trilogy (I'm not counting PT) you prefer the ginormous amount of tickets sold by SW in 1977 vs. FOTR in 2001-02 does NOT correspond with the quality of each respective film. SW was great but was SO far ahead of it's time. Its still "timeless" of course. But a timeless movie in 1977 is hella different than "eh I'll wait for blu-ray/On Demand" timeless movies that come out today.

And when I say marketing and hype I don't just mean one-sheets and print ads. The Batman trailer was pretty great. The engine igniting on the back of the Batmobile, "Wait till they get a load of me," that had us chomping at the bit! I saw it three times at the theater (compared to "only" twice for TDKR) just to see those images alone. But each time I realized that as much as I kept waiting for the movie to get awesome, to actually *be* another SW, I sadly realized that it just wasn't going to be.

Yeah, maybe it would be like George Lucas' directors cuts. The cuts that are just so loved and cherished by his fans.

Lucas was clearly satisfied with his original works in 1977, 1980 and 1983. So much so that he's still tinkering with them today.

You're really quite bitter about this discussion aren't you?

 

[Darkmatter]

Yeah, I addended my post to acknowledge that. Oh wait, you said it had "more" to do with the dearth of superhero movies. My bad.

Even Tim Burton was quoted as saying it was a "boring" movie that was more a cultural phenomenon than a good movie and of course he hated the forced inclusion of the Prince songs. Are we to believe that Nicholson had indefinite final cut? I wonder why Burton never released a director's cut without those songs. Maybe he thought it'd be too hard to sync up Jack's dancing with anything else.

Or maybe Batman Returns WAS his unofficial director's cut of 89.

tim burton thinks every movie is boring without his love, johnny depp.

 

[Khev]

tim burton thinks every movie is boring without his love, johnny depp.

Was Depp ever in the running to play a Batvillain? Assumedly before Schumacher became attached of course.

 

[IrishJedi]

And when I say marketing and hype I don't just mean one-sheets and print ads. The Batman trailer was pretty great. The engine igniting on the back of the Batmobile, "Wait till they get a load of me," that had us chomping at the bit! I saw it three times at the theater (compared to "only" twice for TDKR) just to see those images alone.

Best thing you've posted in this thread.

I agree. AWESOME teaser trailer. Still one of my favorites of all time:

[ame]https://youtu.be/EyozzozRsCk[/ame]

I love how it's just raw footage, with the on-set sound and everything. I even prefer Keaton's whispered "I'm Batman" audio to the one used in the final film.

I worked at a movie theater when this trailer was released. I bet I literally watched it more than 100 times.

 

[DreaAlGhul]

not a reboot, but a 4th film with christian bale, michael caine and gary oldman. still haven't seen the riddler or the penguin.

NO.
NO MOAR.

I need my detective Batman & my comic based films.

 

[thenammagazine]

So there's a walkway....that's where the similarity ends.

The "hand-catching" was there as well as the unintelligible dialogue.