The Dark Knight Rises ***USE SPOILER TAGS***

[IrishJedi]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

For me though here and now, I'm loving seeing Nolans take and I think Batman is a great vehicle for Nolan to explore a variety of really interesting ideas and moral questions and that's what these films are at the end of the day for me - they make me think and I guess that's why I enjoy them so much more than I could ever enjoy a pure popcorn flick

And that is why INCEPTION is better than any of his bat-flicks (so far, anyway). It accomplishes all of that, and more, while being wholly original, with characters that are 100% Nolan's own creation. And it does so without establishing a conceit that is at odds with its own original subject matter.

Look, I like his Batman films, too. But they do absolutely skirt the line of taking themselves far too seriously. Yes, there can be many different interpretations of Batman, Gotham, etc. But at the end of the day the subject matter you're dealing with is still about a billionaire who dresses up like a bat and fights crime to get over the deaths of his parents as a young child. I don't think it would have hurt Nolan (or the films) to have at least a little more fun with it. Why go to such great lengths to base everything in "reality" when the very premise of Batman isn't realistic?

 

[MaulFan]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

And that is why INCEPTION is better than any of his bat-flicks (so far, anyway). It accomplishes all of that, and more, while being wholly original, with characters that are 100% Nolan's own creation. And it does so without establishing a conceit that is at odds with its own original subject matter.

Look, I like his Batman films, too. But they do absolutely skirt the line of taking themselves far too seriously. Yes, there can be many different interpretations of Batman, Gotham, etc. But at the end of the day the subject matter you're dealing with is still about a billionaire who dresses up like a bat and fights crime to get over his childhood issues. I don't think it would have hurt Nolan (or the films) to have at least a little more fun with it. Why go to such great lengths to base everything in "reality" when the very premise of Batman isn't realistic?

I think the reason he struggles with that is because he finds an interesting story in Batman, and seeks to make good movies around what he takes from the character, but he makes movies, not comic book movies, and the comic book aspects are forced in because of the source, but they contrast with the reality of the more generic elements of the movie and some work better than others. Two-Face as he was designed and things like the Lazarus pits don't make sense because they're not part of our world but Nolan puts them there. You can't look past some of those contrasts and enjoy the films because Nolan's a good storyteller, but in a critique they are valid points to raise.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Nolan still might change his mind and agree to a Batman vs Capcom 4th movie.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Look, I like his Batman films, too. But they do absolutely skirt the line of taking themselves far too seriously.

They definitely do more than skirt the line. I think that Nolan set out to make a serious superhero film especially considering that the last few were so over the top cheesy they could have been sponsored by Kraft. Which is also why I think people love them so much because they seem to bring a legitimacy to the genre. Not to keep hitting the Inception well but that film had all the components that his Batman films had but it wasn't afraid to take itself a little light and even to throw itself into the realm of astonishing which his Batman films could have been so elevated by. Just my two pennies.

 

[EVILFACE]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

And that is why INCEPTION is better than any of his bat-flicks (so far, anyway). It accomplishes all of that, and more, while being wholly original, with characters that are 100% Nolan's own creation. And it does so without establishing a conceit that is at odds with its own original subject matter.

It's not wholly original. 1984s Dreamscape had a similar plot of implanting ideas into the heads of people sleeping using telepaths.

 

[Wanderer]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Just like a comic book, movie Batman is open to interpretation by its director. It just so happens that Nolan decided he wanted to go the real world route.
Personally, I agree that he took the films too far in that direction as is almost embarrassed to embrace the franchises roots. Very ironic considering the premise/characters are so very comic book.
As much as I like his films, I'm hoping for a complete reboot.
I'd love to see a Batman done as a 40's period piece in the style of Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow...

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

They definitely do more than skirt the line. I think that Nolan set out to make a serious superhero film especially considering that the last few were so over the top cheesy they could have been sponsored by Kraft. Which is also why I think people love them so much because they seem to bring a legitimacy to the genre. Not to keep hitting the Inception well but that film had all the components that his Batman films had but it wasn't afraid to take itself a little light and even to throw itself into the realm of astonishing which his Batman films could have been so elevated by. Just my two pennies.

I see your point and yeah, it would have been cool sure to see a little more of the scifi element integrated into the Batfilms, but i'm allright with the approach taken thus far. This batwing though looks pretty scifi, almost terminator'eque

 

[Rorywan]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

It's not wholly original. 1984s Dreamscape had a similar plot of implanting ideas into the heads of people sleeping using telepaths.

Yeah, it annoyed the ____ out of me to hear people talk about how ground breakingly original Inception was. It wasn't, at all. Dreamscape did it all before, even down to assasins entering a persons dreams and different levels of dream state. And it was a lot more fun, I might add.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I personally love the way Nolan has wen't with the batfilms, teetering on the edge of realism and comic-book. I think they are the best super-hero flicks around. It's a different interpretation of a character that has hundreds of interpretations. Especially when a character such as batman can get quite goofy on screen when done wrong.

Also, Void do you have a link to a better quality prologue?

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Also, Void do you have a link to a better quality prologue?

Unfortunately no - just the old crappy version

 

[ZaCHw117]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Yeah, it annoyed the ____ out of me to hear people talk about how ground breakingly original Inception was. It wasn't, at all. Dreamscape did it all before, even down to assasins entering a persons dreams and different levels of dream state. And it was a lot more fun, I might add.

Many can say that Dreamscape and Inception gained their concepts from Plato's works especially his Allegory of the Cave and his argument for and against the real world.

Unfortunately no - just the old crappy version

Thanks anyways, I thought there would be plunty around after the release of MI4, but nope

 

[jye4ever]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I see your point and yeah, it would have been cool sure to see a little more of the scifi element integrated into the Batfilms, but i'm allright with the approach taken thus far. This batwing though looks pretty scifi, almost terminator'eque

You know you can't wait for the reboot though:

Batman Wayne and the Kingdom of the Crystal Penguin Skulls

 

[wofford29]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

It's ridiculous comparing Inception and Dreamscape. It has as much in common with The Cell or A Nightmare on Elm St. Which is to say one plot point. Dreaming. If you think Inception is about dreaming though it doesn't surprise me if you can't look past a superficial plot device.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

It's ridiculous comparing Inception and Dreamscape. It has as much in common with The Cell or A Nightmare on Elm St. Which is to say one plot point. Dreaming. If you think Inception is about dreaming though it doesn't surprise me if you can't look past a superficial plot device.

Someone needs another cup of coffee this morning.

 

[crows]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

It's ridiculous comparing Inception and Dreamscape. It has as much in common with The Cell or A Nightmare on Elm St. Which is to say one plot point. Dreaming. If you think Inception is about dreaming though it doesn't surprise me if you can't look past a superficial plot device.

haha I Was just thinking the same,
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRYp3LPL0bc[/ame]

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Oh that easy eh? For a comic book experience read a comic book?

Although I find it a bit funny to say "for a comic book experience play a video game!"

Nolan had made good Batman movies. The best so far arguably although many would argue that Burton made something special with his films. It isn't about changing the status quo, Nolan has said that before BB and right after before TDK that his Batman exists in a vacuum, long before the fanboys were creaming all over the Ledger Joker and everything that it brought with it.

By removing the element of a man amongst Gods, Nolan doesn't fully encapulate the character, he removes an important part of the mythos and even waters down a bit of what makes the initial character special. He didn't even play up the detective role until TDK, would people right after BB, who cares why does he need to be a detective? If you want Batman the detective then read a comic book! I don't think so.

What Nolan has done is remove the Superhero from the Superhero film. BB, TDK both are basic archetypes of films outside of the genre. TDK plays more like a Michael Mann drama than a comic book film and the additions of two colorful characters running the show is what makes it unique. That a man dressed as a bat or a clown can exist so nonchalantly is what makes people envious because almost every other superhero film has the characters larger than life and almost jarring.

Nolan's films may go down as the best ones ever done with Batman but as they don't fully explore the character in all aspects, they'll never be the greatest. Look at X-Men: First Class which brought humanity to mutant character who before were cookie cutter fare and made it acceptable for humans and high powered beings to co-exist and even be in awe of each other, something that looking at some of Nolan's other films he could have done amazingly but that he simply chose to ignore.

It's always be a "what if?" scenario that people may choose to ignore but it's still looming in the distance.

I agree

nolan only took bits & pieces of the batman mythos & left out some of the most important. batman has studied all forms of martial art, but he fights like a guy that barely knows what he's doing. but no, we get some watered down, one stop shopping league of shadows martial arts training

batman is also at the peak of human bodily perfection, but never shown training. batman is always training his body and his mind. he's a strategist always thinking 4 steps ahead, but we get him sitting in a chair in TDK moping like an 8 year old

what ever happened to the detective part of the mythos?

would it have hurt to let him use the bat rope to zip around? running away at the end of TDK like that was laughably pathetic

 

[jye4ever]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I agree

nolan only took bits & pieces of the batman mythos & left out some of the most important. batman has studied all forms of martial art, but he fights like a guy that barely knows what he's doing. but no, we get some watered down, one stop shopping league of shadows martial arts training

batman is also at the peak of human bodily perfection, but never shown training. batman is always training his body and his mind. he's a strategist always thinking 4 steps ahead, but we get him sitting in a chair in TDK moping like an 8 year old

what ever happened to the detective part of the mythos?

would it have hurt to let him use the bat rope to zip around? running away at the end of TDK like that was laughably pathetic

Oh no, not the give Batman 3 days preparation and he could even take out Jesus speech again

at the Nicholas Cage cartoon head

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Oh no, not the give Batman 3 days preparation and he could even take out Jesus speech again

at the Nicholas Cage cartoon head

there's a whole JLA story arc where batman took down all the other members just to prove a point

&

 

[jye4ever]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

there's a whole JLA story arc where batman took down all the other members just to prove a point

&

 

[Nightwing]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

If there's one thing I really don't like about Nolans movies, its how he shot himself in the foot to be "realistic". He Eliminated the chance to use other villians by trying to make Batman, an over the top fictional character, be placed in a world where he doesn't belong. Batman has one of the best rogue galleries, yet the chance to see half the villains was eliminated by Nolans "vision".

Other than that....and killing Two Face by falling yet again, I don't have much of a problem.