The Dark Knight Rises ***USE SPOILER TAGS***

[Ironman1188]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Ink, LOVE the sig. Thats the same one i used to use here. Glad to see it still lives!!

 

[Agent0028]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I don't think a recast of Joker would go over very well. If someone could do it, I'd be all for it, but I just don't see it happening. Recasts annoy me. I'm looking at you Marvel.

 

[CelticPredator]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Umm, apparently they are or he'd be alive, Joker would be in the next film and you'd have no argument.


As, the last time I checked, this was still an open discussion forum I will respectfully disagree that no Joker is a good thing. I admire Nolan's loyalty to Ledger, although somewhat misplaced.
There is nothing to get over. I am entitled to the same desire to see certain villains/characters as much as the next person.

And I am entitled to get pissy when people repeat the same thing over and over....

You wont see the Nolan Joker on film ever again. I dont see why that's a big deal. I'd rather have a new style Joker for the reboot in a few years anyway.

 

[CelticPredator]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I couldnt see the Brand X picture, but I know it...and I .

 

[devilof76]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Yeah, damn those sleeping pills! Horrible drugs they are!

Sleeping pills can kill you, but if I recall, he had prescriptions from 7 different doctors, neither of whom were aware that he was on other medication. That doesn't exactly indicate an accidental death, unless you consider wanton negligent abuse of prescription drugs to be an unfortunate mistake.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Heath Ledger discussion aside, the Joker isn't appearing in TDKR but it doesn't mean whomever helms the next three after this won't dip into that well. The question will be whether they follow Nolan's universe with their own twists or whether they go their own route with their own vision. The reason this is important is because it'll depend on how we see the actual Joker portrayed both in actor and design.

Personally I'm glad to see Nolan leave. He did a fantastic job on the Batman films and I'm sure this one will be great as well but he is a shortsighted, narrowminded filmmaker who doesn't understand the subtile nuances that make the human character pop in a world of superpowered heroes and villains. According to recent reports as well he made it very clear he wanted Superman or Green Lantern to have no interaction with his world. So don't plan on any cameos or relational Easter Eggs in TDKR or Superman because he stopped that.

He brought a seriousness to the genre which has to be appreciated but he isn't the right fit for it. Someone who understands that within realism comes the idea that Batman himself is a human who can take down a Clayface or Bane or Mr. Freeze and is not shocked by the ridiculousness but in turn can out think these villains or even bring Superman to his knees using knowledge and intellect is the perfect fit whether they have Nolan's gravitas.

 

[Ironman1188]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

And I am entitled to get pissy when people repeat the same thing over and over....

You wont see the Nolan Joker on film ever again. I dont see why that's a big deal. I'd rather have a new style Joker for the reboot in a few years anyway.

Absolutely. As long as I can still get pissy about folks who keep insisting Nolan won't recast characters when Katie Holmes [for better or worse] was nowhere to be seen in The Dark Knight, but her character was. And that was a character not hidden behind makeup or masks. Soooo, Joker could have easily returned, as was hinted towards in TDK, for more villainous mayhem.

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I think the Nolan films will after a few years be viewed as a seperate trilogy piece that stands on its own - and will, IMO, stand the test of time as to their quality and longevity, because they deal with themes and issues of morals and principals that effect us all.

I wouldn't go so far as to call Nolan shortsighted or narrow minded - he simply had a standalone vision for Batman grounded in the real world, which is what he is conveying to us over a trilogy.

Regarding where to go from here, yes I would love to see a different take where a director can, as you say Mike, bring in the other great aspects of the Batman character, that deal with the fact that he is merely a human with immense determination and resource to endlessly try to fix a world gone mad around him, that is filled with meta-humans, aliens and psychos.

 

[The Mike]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I wouldn't go so far as to call Nolan shortsighted or narrow minded - he simply had a standalone vision for Batman grounded in the real world, which is what he is conveying to us over a trilogy.

The only reason I call him that is because he was called on it after BB and TDK, the fact that the Rogues he chose were human with no "abilities" and whether we'd see those Rogues pop up. His answer reflected that he believed those things couldn't/wouldn't exist in a real world Batman, an argument by its origin is already flawed, and so removes one of the most vital aspects of the character. The man has backup plans, information on every Superbeing in the Earth realm, knows how to dismantle and take them apart if need be and it was done on observation and intellect, important aspects of the character that Nolan has touched on but by limiting him to basically nutjobs running around in masks and make-up and removing the possibility of him being shown able to take down what should be a no match contest for the villain based on his intelligence alone, I'm going to call him narrowminded and shortsighted.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

It also doesn't help when he gives his other films like the Prestige and Inception more room for creativity and play but short changes Batman by setting him in a "grounded reality".

I mean yeah it would be ridiculous and inappropriate to include a weird, not of this world, character in these current films, but can we have something other than crazies running around in nice 3 piece business suits?

 

[Darth Madden]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

The only reason I call him that is because he was called on it after BB and TDK, the fact that the Rogues he chose were human with no "abilities" and whether we'd see those Rogues pop up. His answer reflected that he believed those things couldn't/wouldn't exist in a real world Batman, an argument by its origin is already flawed, and so removes one of the most vital aspects of the character. The man has backup plans, information on every Superbeing in the Earth realm, knows how to dismantle and take them apart if need be and it was done on observation and intellect, important aspects of the character that Nolan has touched on but by limiting him to basically nutjobs running around in masks and make-up and removing the possibility of him being shown able to take down what should be a no match contest for the villain based on his intelligence alone, I'm going to call him narrowminded and shortsighted.

There are enough Batman stories with the "super" emenies. I am happy he chose a real world asspect to these films, its something different and something a lot of people can relate to better. There will be many more Batman movies with the other types of villains.

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Fair enough I see your point now Mike - I do agree that this approach necessarily limits the depiction of Batmans intelligence and contingency planning.

 

[RJMacReady16]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I'll take Nolan's narrowmindedness any day.

I don't want my Batman hanging out on a space station with demigods dressed in tights, or punching Superman with kryptonite rings.

Fighting a crocodileman in the sewers? Sure. Eventually. But I'm glad we're getting this realistic approach first. It was long overdue.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

i don't want my batman hanging out on a space station with demigods dressed in tights, or punching superman with kryptonite rings.

TOO far!

fighting a crocodileman in the sewers? Sure. Eventually. But i'm glad we're getting this realistic approach first. It was long overdue.

DO WANT!

 

[SnakeDoctor]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I'm not sure Batman will ever go back to the truly fantastical. Nolan's interpretation of Batman will be like Donner's interpretation of Superman ... its going to be around for a while.

"Those mob fools want you gone so they can get back to the way things were. But I know the truth: there's no going back. You've changed things... forever."

SnakeDoc

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

The only reason I call him that is because he was called on it after BB and TDK, the fact that the Rogues he chose were human with no "abilities" and whether we'd see those Rogues pop up. His answer reflected that he believed those things couldn't/wouldn't exist in a real world Batman, an argument by its origin is already flawed, and so removes one of the most vital aspects of the character. The man has backup plans, information on every Superbeing in the Earth realm, knows how to dismantle and take them apart if need be and it was done on observation and intellect, important aspects of the character that Nolan has touched on but by limiting him to basically nutjobs running around in masks and make-up and removing the possibility of him being shown able to take down what should be a no match contest for the villain based on his intelligence alone, I'm going to call him narrowminded and shortsighted.

there was a storyline in JLA where batman takes down each justice leaguer just to prove he can do it

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

there was a storyline in JLA where batman takes down each justice leaguer just to prove he can do it

That was a cool story.

But yes I would take Nolan any day too. But would also love to see a fight with Killer Croc in the sewers ALA Arkhum Asylum!

 

[Seditionary]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I used to hate how intermingled all the beings of the dc universe were in gotham at times...it was just a way for me to be intrigued into learning more about other characters and story lines. When I wasn't really concerned with them. Now I find it more fun, and I don't mind as much...and it is always nice to see batman square off with supers. And I do like most of the robins and batgirls, but I dont really see it working in nolans work either.

That being said, I appreciate the idea that batman is best on his own and in his own world. In a year one sense...not confusing the story.

I do like all the fantastical villains tons. If the point of his movies was to take something and make it seem believable with a certain seriousness and reality, it is best to steer clear from clayfaces and killer crocs. The biggest injustice to these characters would be to remove some of the things that make them far out. I don't wanna see a master of disguise called clayface. I remember before the dark knight came out hearing about going back to the jokers origin of just something sinister. That was exciting, it was like reaching the roots of both characters. I personally think that heath's joker is a pretty pure representation of the character, up until today, on ideology alone. (looks aside)

Now the strongest things about his films are the rules hes built for them...theres an extent of believability which even gets strongly shifted on occasion. I just think this just limits what could work for him in his style. I wouldn't call him narrowminded or shortsighted for making those choices. if anything he was protecting his work from getting to far out. The same way it would be hurting clayface to make him a man that wears false noses or something, it would hurt nolans films to put in a man that is made of clay and can take any shape.

Obviously the man has a very clean style aesthetically. The joker is probably as far from the clean suit and tie look as he will go...and that says alot. The joker takes that look at turns it upside down. Even Nolan's movie about dreams is more like a 007 movie than it is like any dream I've ever had. It's just his representation of various worlds.

I think that nolan's movies are important because has created a firm representation of a batman story early on in bruce's career. I think even after this second sequel it will still be a great jumping off point for future movies with all sorts of crazy things.

I don't have much faith in marvels ability to pull off a muli-layered universe filled with their characters sharing screen time. Comics are different then movies...like many people have discussed on here. I personally think that film makers have a hard enough time developing their main characters without getting sidetracked by villains. I am excited to see how it goes, and i think it is really awesome that they are taking a shot at it, though. My guess is alot of footage and then alot of editing will be important.


It may be limiting some vital aspects of the story and batman's ability as far as what characters he is related to..but you can surely show batman having backup plans and information without showing aliens and other superpowers. I'm hoping for more serious, ass kicking, prepared, VETERAN batman in this next film. Then I wanna see where it goes from there.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

there was a storyline in JLA where batman takes down each justice leaguer just to prove he can do it

That was a cool story.

But yes I would take Nolan any day too. But would also love to see a fight with Killer Croc in the sewers ALA Arkhum Asylum!

Where can I find that storyline? Sounds worthwhile.

SnakeDoc

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Where can I find that storyline? Sounds worthwhile.

SnakeDoc

I don't remember the issue numbers, but it was in morrison's run