The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug

[The Josh]

I have used some specifics and if you want more you can read my review. I've also tried to explain from someone who has spent a lot of time in the last 12 years getting to know this world why your line of thinking misses the mark. I've also said some of the same things others have said then you're like, "oh I see." It makes for a frustrating conversation for me. I'm also mindful to not go on and on about it. I as a mod don't want to make Dave look bad and as a staffer at TORn don't date make them look bad. So I just try to make my point quick and quiet.

 

[The Ween]

It didn't help that I broke up with a long time boyfriend shortly before seeing it either.

 

[The Ween]

Jaws......My favorite of the trilogy is TTT but though I love it, if someone were to never have seen the Trilogy or FOTR at all and just saw TTT, I don't think they'd feel it was a good stand alone movie.

I also like KOTCS.

 

[Khev]

These scenes just add nothing to this one film. They might look cool (spiders) and have an impact on the overall story (elves) but they felt pointless to me in this one movie.. those scenes would work better in a two part film IMO.

The spiders and elves, apart from being entertaining and self-contained action sequences in and of themselves convey the "snowball" effect of the dwarves' journey, how their adventures keep piling on new third parties that have a stake in their quest.

The dwarves are hunting Smaug, the orcs are hunting the dwarves, the spiders temporarily hunt the dwarves and draw in the elves. The elves capture the dwarves then hunt them when they escape, simultaneously the orcs still hunt them and draw Tauriel into the greater battle while she also seeks to aid Kili, Legolas tags along after Tauriel and develops a grudge against the same orcs.

It *feels* to me kind of like a giant epic Middle-Earth "True Romance" with the craziest Mexican standoff anyone has ever seen as the elves and orcs converge on a crazy little human lake town and face each other, dwarves, and even some human kids completely oblivious to the fact that as they do so the giant dragon who prompted the entire adventure is preparing to take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.

Just awesome, awesome stuff.

To the orcs Legolas is like Jason Vorhees and his kills are delightful throwbacks to PJ's early splatterhouse days.

I just don't like the ways the story structure was broken up and done in this film. It's why I keep stating that I hope the EX version or the 3rd film really help my enjoyment of the this film.

I hear you. To each his own.

 

[jye4ever]

The spiders and elves, apart from being entertaining and self-contained action sequences in and of themselves convey the "snowball" effect of the dwarves' journey, how their adventures keep piling on new third parties that have a stake in their quest.

The dwarves are hunting Smaug, the orcs are hunting the dwarves, the spiders temporarily hunt the dwarves and draw in the elves. The elves capture the dwarves then hunt them when they escape, simultaneously the orcs still hunt them and draw Tauriel into the greater battle while she also seeks to aid Kili, Legolas tags along after Tauriel and develops a grudge against the same orcs.

It *feels* to me kind of like a giant epic Middle-Earth "True Romance" with the craziest Mexican standoff anyone has ever seen as the elves and orcs converge on a crazy little human lake town and face each other, dwarves, and even some human kids completely oblivious to the fact that as they do so the giant dragon who prompted the entire adventure is preparing to take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.

Just awesome, awesome stuff.

To the orcs Legolas is like Jason Vorhees and his kills are delightful throwbacks to PJ's early splatterhouse days.



I hear you. To each his own.

 

[jye4ever]

It didn't help that I broke up with a long time boyfriend shortly before seeing it either.

don't look back, you know, like Anakin in TPM.

 

[JAWS]

The spiders and elves, apart from being entertaining and self-contained action sequences in and of themselves convey the "snowball" effect of the dwarves' journey, how their adventures keep piling on new third parties that have a stake in their quest.

The dwarves are hunting Smaug, the orcs are hunting the dwarves, the spiders temporarily hunt the dwarves and draw in the elves. The elves capture the dwarves then hunt them when they escape, simultaneously the orcs still hunt them and draw Tauriel into the greater battle while she also seeks to aid Kili, Legolas tags along after Tauriel and develops a grudge against the same orcs.

Imagine If you will that PJ's King Kong was split into three films and the second film was them starting off after the Girl on Skull Island. It would be filled with action with the crew going from Dino scene to dino scene and then it just ended with Kong being taken off to NY. Those scenes in a film unto themselves would just feel like pointless action scenes that did not move the story along. As a whole film you can see just how crappy these guys have it on skull Island.

That is what DOS feels like to me... The Skull Island part of King Kong if it was just a film unto itself. Lots of action but no characters.

Not the best comparison.. As The Hobbit is much Deeper of a story but I think that may explain where I am coming from.

In the end it does not matter. I understand why people enjoyed this film. For me it just fell flat and felt lifeless without the big character moments.

 

[The Ween]

don't look back, you know, like Anakin in TPM.

 

[Khev]

In the end it does not matter. I understand why people enjoyed this film. For me it just fell flat and felt lifeless without the big character moments.

I certainly don't have any problem with that. I'm just enjoying chatting about the film.

 

[jye4ever]

Not my intended reaction, but it will suffice.

 

[jye4ever]

Hobbit AUJ EE 3D plus 2D Bluray has finally dropped to $30.00 on Amazon!

https://amzn.com/B00E8S2GJI

 

[The Ween]

Posting this simply because I love the picture.

 

[Goonsack Steve]

The only thing in my opinion this movie doesn't have is an epic moment which makes me need to see it again. Sure this movie is better but unlike the first one it misses that one moment which I could just watch over and over again. In the first one I see the scene were Thorin walks though the fire towards Azorg as the Nasgul theme plays as one of those moments I seem to watch every couple of days.

 

[jye4ever]

Posting this simply because I love the picture.

He's so cute and adorable.

The only thing in my opinion this movie doesn't have is an epic moment which makes me need to see it again. Sure this movie is better but unlike the first one it misses that one moment which I could just watch over and over again. In the first one I see the scene were Thorin walks though the fire towards Azorg as the Nasgul theme plays as one of those moments I seem to watch every couple of days.

There were good scenes, but you're right, nothing epic like that scene you just mentioned.

 

[TheProcrastinator]

Posting this simply because I love the picture.

When it comes to Thorin, I think nothing beats this french poster. All of Thorin's majesty and badassery captured in one picture. The way he gazes wistfully into the horizon. The way he holds the sword to his chest, almost caressing the blade with his ring finger. I am in love with this poster

 

[JAWS]

I have used some specifics and if you want more you can read my review. I've also tried to explain from someone who has spent a lot of time in the last 12 years getting to know this world why your line of thinking misses the mark. I've also said some of the same things others have said then you're like, "oh I see." It makes for a frustrating conversation for me. I'm also mindful to not go on and on about it. I as a mod don't want to make Dave look bad and as a staffer at TORn don't date make them look bad. So I just try to make my point quick and quiet.

.

But you are proving my point again...

You are coming at this as someone who has spent a lot of time the last 12 years getting to know this world. You may think I am "missing the mark" and that is fine. Perhaps I am as someone who is just trying to enjoy a film without taking a college course on it. But I know how I felt watching the film. I am not "missing any mark." I am watching this film without 12 years of study. I would hope that I don't have to have 12 years of study to understand this film.

We are just discussing a film here. I could be wrong but it feels to me like I can except that you enjoyed a film for all the wrong reasons (In my view) while you don't seem to be able to accept that I don't like the film, for all the wrong reasons (in your view) or as you so definitively put it "why your line of thinking misses the mark." I don't know if you know how that sounds but it's not the first time you have sounded that way. Personally I try and go out of my way not to make comments like that.

I don't mean to frustrate you but I feel I have shared with you why I thought your comments were not as "helpful" as the others. You may think you were getting the point across but something was getting lost in the translation between you and I. It may have something to do with your "showing me how I am missing the mark" way of putting things. Perhaps it was done in jest but that is getting lost somewhere also.

But here are your responses to me since I saw the film the 2nd time.

After I posted that I thought the score was the weakest of the three.

The score is really nice as usual with these movies. I love the way the OST came out myself.

OK cool. No specifics but cool.

Nothing happened? Really? Ok

Not sure how I should take that... So I laughed.

Jaws no offense but I don't feel like answering that post. If you really think nothing happened then it's not worth my time explaining why you're incorrect.

O...K..

You really need to read the book to find out why the places and things that happen are important.

Even without reading the book those places and events are important. Reading the book might help you understand this. This film does stand on its own.

I'm sure you're not alone. Beorn's introduction is important as he comes into play in film three. The spider sequence is important as it shows that Bilbo isn't the same Hobbit that left the Shire and we get the see the naming of Sting. Both these happen in the book. They get captured by elves in the book the movie way is a little better. The stuff in Thranduil's halls is fantastic. You get the great argument between Thorin and Thranduil. The hate that exists between the two and the greed of both is really well done. It also gives us a great character moment between Tauriel and Kili. Despite the hate between the leaders two can try to understand each other. We also get to see Bilbo show off his burglar skills and prove his worth to Thorin/company. The barrel sequence has a couple issues but is a little more exciting for most folks than the book sequence. Lake Town introduces us to Bard and what he's all about. He's kind of important to the story. You also get to see the corrupt nature of The Master and how bad Lake Town is. This plays into things in the future. I love most of the stuff in Erebor. Bilbo v Smaug was great. I would have taken some of the action out and put other stuff in earlier in the movie.

There are some nice character moments. Kili/Tauriel, Balin/Bilbo, Bilbo/Balin, Bilbo/Smaug. It had more than the book does really at this point. As far as the panoramic shots the areas we visit don't lead to much of that to be honest. I don't think you will find any place in NZ that looks like Mirkwood, Thranduil's halls, Lake Town, and inside of Erebor. All of these places had to be done the way they were done.

I thought there was plenty of dialogue.

This was a nice well though out argument.. Very much enjoyed this response. You made lots of nice points comparing the film with the book and why you liked or did not like some scenes and why you thought my arguments were incorrect. I responded with my own arguments and got this.

I don't know what to tell ya Jaws. I respect you're right to your opinion but for me it couldn't be more wrong.

I responded to this very well. No hard feelings. For you I could not be more wrong

Well, we will have to totally disagree. The music once again was simply fantastic and gave even more life to an already awesome movie.
.

No problem. No Specifics but no problem.

You keep saying they could have gone to Lake Town and nothing would have been missed. I can assure you that it would have and it would have pissed off a lot of Tolkien fans. Those moments are actually important to the story. As someone who knows a bit about Tolkien trust me on this.

More Book defense which has been your number one defence of the film.. Nothing about the film by itself. This has been my point to you from the beginning on why our opinions probably differ. I am coming at this purely as a film viewer... Not a fan (and I don't mean that in a bad way) of the books.

A one movie idea is a terrible terrible idea. Thank god Jackson didn't do that. Talk about finding a way to make things that are important to the story and making them not important. Thankfully the route he has gone has not diminished the events that are important to the story while adding several things that add to it. These aren't perfect and have some things I'd change, but as a whole things are pretty fantastic with these films.

That quote is totally incorrect.

I said the one movie thing once... I mostly have said two films.. You the kind of sort of make sense but to someone who has not read the book I think the whole Making things important not important is a bit lost on me. It's why when Ween said Smaug only had 3 pages in the book it really hit home. It was an excellent example.

You then seemed to get rid of this quote.

"It's amazing that I say these types of things and it just goes in one ear and out the other."



My point to all of this... I don't think you have been as specific as you think you have been other then using the book. You did this with our disagreement about the Sauron scene in the film also earlier in the thread.

Others have given specifics. Yours have been more general. It's why I have not been "getting" it with you.

As far as making Dave or TORn look bad... I hope you are never to the point of getting angry about talking about a film where you might post something and make others look bad... If that is the case then please Ignore my last 15 to 20 post. I will discuss with others. I don't want to make anyone angry over something like a movie.

I loved LOTR, I Love AUJ, I don't care for DOS.

But I am happy for the you and the other fans that love it.

 

[JAWS]

I certainly don't have any problem with that. I'm just enjoying chatting about the film.

Me too... But I think I am done now. I think I have annoyed Josh (not the first time see IM3 thread) so I have posted my thoughts on that and it's time to go hang out in the statue part.


Loved talking about this film though.

I hope I fall in love with it at some point or at least find a way to really enjoy it.

I think I will not be so hard on it after the third film but I may still feel like it should have been two... But I really hope I am wrong and it stands on it's own.

Smaug and Thorin will always rule though.

 

[The Josh]

I'm not angry. I just meant I don't want to beat a dead horse on why I don't agree. If I keep beating why I disagree it may make folks look at them badly because I won't shut up. That's all.

PS: A couple of my comments you quoted were just general comments, and not directed at you specifically.

 

[The Ween]

When it comes to Thorin, I think nothing beats this french poster. All of Thorin's majesty and badassery captured in one picture. The way he gazes wistfully into the horizon. The way he holds the sword to his chest, almost caressing the blade with his ring finger. I am in love with this poster

That is nice! :swoon:

 

[The Ween]

I'm not angry. I just meant I don't want to beat a dead horse on why I don't agree. If I keep beating why I disagree it may make folks look at them badly because I won't shut up. That's all.

PS: A couple of my comments you quoted were just general comments, and not directed at you specifically.

Hands up! Who wants to see Josh and Jaws mud wrestle?