The Iceberg Lounge aka GeneralZodLives's Phantom Zone

[GeneralZodLives]

 

[Terminatrix]

[emoji23] DED!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chuck72586]

Justice League has opened to less then 100 million dollars...

 

[GeneralZodLives]

As a DC fan, it’s hard to feel sorry for them when they’ve disappointed me so much with these films. Justice League’s weak opening weekend is a testament to how much WB ****ed up this license. The first live action Justice League movie should have broken box office records. It’ll be interesting to see if they just stay the awful course or scrap what they’ve got planned and reboot.

 

[SilverStar17]

What would you like to see in a rebooted universe?

 

[GeneralZodLives]

I’d like to see them get the characters right. There are decades of stories to pull from, but they have to get the characters right first. In a perfect world, I wish they would have built their film universe with solo films for Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman first to lay down the foundation of what makes DC great in the first place. Marvel’s films built their universe up so that they earned the “Oh, ****” moments that fans loved. Not that DC would have to go full-on Marvel goofiness—they could still have serious moments. The animated shows and films did an excellent job of mixing humor and intensity, but they were able to do so because they were true to the characters. Maybe it’s too late for DC to do that with their live action films. It’s aggravating that they’ve shown that they can do it in one form of media but chose not to do it in another.

 

[SilverStar17]

Well that's just the thing though and sort of my question: what is right to you? They do indeed have decades of stories to cull from with different iterations and interpretations. If they choose a particular iteration or storyline that isn't to your specific liking, that doesn't mean it's inherently wrong.

The definition of "right" when it comes to superheroes sort of varies from person to person.

 

[ShadowGuardian]

What would you like to see in a rebooted universe?

As much as I have enjoyed MOS, BVS, WW and to an extent JL, I think a full on reboot is probably what's best for DC at this point.

Aquaman is obviously too far into production to scrap, but everything else can be cut off now without major consequences.

As much as it would suck, just recast everybody. Affleck obviously doesn't want to do this much longer, and while I have loved his Batman if he doesn't want to be there they gotta let him go. Cavill and Gadot have also been fantastic, but the damage has been done. These actors deserved better but to really get things back on track with the general audience, they gotta start from scratch. Not to mention Joker and to an extent Lex have been essential butchered to a point where it's too hard to bring them back and course correct naturally.

WB needs to wait a few years and then restart with Matt Reeves Batman. I still think they should go through with using Matt as the director, but make it a completely different universe. This way there are no creative restrictions. Batman should already be Batman, but in his early days. Very Arkham Origins esque. You can already have a couple somewhat established villains roaming about.

Following this they should bring in there Wonder Woman, Superman, Flash, etc movies. Not sure what the order should be or who should get their movie first, but the key is to establish that these films are connected while not forcing it or rushing the connections. Make it natural, allow these solo films to breathe and be their own thing with little nods and Easter eggs to the other heroes.

Also, I feel like most people are pretty much past origin stories, at least for the Trinity. I think they could still provide the origin in a creative way at the start of or throughout the movie without directly showing it in a boring linear fashion.

As far as tone goes, it shouldn't be dark and grim save for Batman, but it shouldn't be overly jokey and light hearted either. Each character should just have the appropriate tone to how they are generally in the comics. In a team up film, you need to have a balance and just let each character be who they are. Let their strengths and weaknesses play off each other to create a whole new entity, the team.

Eventually, after the major players have had their own solo films, THEN you can do some kind of team up. I don't know how they could do it to differentiate from the Snyderverse, but possibly introduce a threat that is impacting everyone's lives in a variety of ways, and as each hero investigates this situation, they eventually encounter each other and unite against the enemy. Kind of cliche but how else can you do it?

 

[GeneralZodLives]

Well that's just the thing though and sort of my question: what is right to you? They do indeed have decades of stories to cull from with different iterations and interpretations. If they choose a particular iteration or storyline that isn't to your specific liking, that doesn't mean it's inherently wrong.

The definition of "right" when it comes to superheroes sort of varies from person to person.

Over the decades there are core attributes to these characters that don’t change. If you get them wrong, then you change the character. Now, there are certain storylines in which those characters go through something that makes them react different than normal, but they always—always—get back to what makes the character that character. You can’t start Batman as Miller’s Dark Knight, throw in a couple hints of why he’s that way but don’t explain them, then do a completely unearned 180 to a different version of Batman. If you don’t set up the characters as the ones that are recognized worldwide, then the drama they go through, the personal trials they overcome, don’t mean anything.

People have their favorite versions or storylines, but they can all be used in films without losing sight of what makes Superman Superman or Batman Batman.

 

[SilverStar17]

Over the decades there are core attributes to these characters that don’t change. If you get them wrong, then you change the character. Now, there are certain storylines in which those characters go through something that makes them react different than normal, but they always—always—get back to what makes the character that character. You can’t start Batman as Miller’s Dark Knight, throw in a couple hints of why he’s that way but don’t explain them, then do a completely unearned 180 to a different version of Batman. If you don’t set up the characters as the ones that are recognized worldwide, then the drama they go through, the personal trials they overcome, don’t mean anything.

People have their favorite versions or storylines, but they can all be used in films without losing sight of what makes Superman Superman or Batman Batman.

I concur, but I personally don't see how these current characters, namely Superman and Batman, deviate from that. Both characters possess the core attributes and ideologies that make their respective characters, their character. Both have underwent an arc, Superman a bit more than Batman, in which led them to become the characters we know.

 

[GeneralZodLives]

I concur, but I don't see how these current characters, namely Superman and Batman, deviate from that.

Then I don’t know what to tell you. I don’t feel like I’m watching films with DC characters when I watch these films. If they weren’t wearing the outfits, you’d never know who they were supposed to be.

 

[SilverStar17]

Then I don’t know what to tell you. I don’t feel like I’m watching films with DC characters when I watch these films. If they weren’t wearing the outfits, you’d never know who they were supposed to be.

I'm not sure what to tell you then, either, or what it is exactly you're looking for that you consider to be right. Superman still giving his life for Earth after being a figure of controversy seems pretty Superman-esque to me.

 

[Chuck72586]

As much as I have enjoyed MOS, BVS, WW and to an extent JL, I think a full on reboot is probably what's best for DC at this point.

Aquaman is obviously too far into production to scrap, but everything else can be cut off now without major consequences.

As much as it would suck, just recast everybody. Affleck obviously doesn't want to do this much longer, and while I have loved his Batman if he doesn't want to be there they gotta let him go. Cavill and Gadot have also been fantastic, but the damage has been done. These actors deserved better but to really get things back on track with the general audience, they gotta start from scratch. Not to mention Joker and to an extent Lex have been essential butchered to a point where it's too hard to bring them back and course correct naturally.

WB needs to wait a few years and then restart with Matt Reeves Batman. I still think they should go through with using Matt as the director, but make it a completely different universe. This way there are no creative restrictions. Batman should already be Batman, but in his early days. Very Arkham Origins esque. You can already have a couple somewhat established villains roaming about.

Following this they should bring in there Wonder Woman, Superman, Flash, etc movies. Not sure what the order should be or who should get their movie first, but the key is to establish that these films are connected while not forcing it or rushing the connections. Make it natural, allow these solo films to breathe and be their own thing with little nods and Easter eggs to the other heroes.

Also, I feel like most people are pretty much past origin stories, at least for the Trinity. I think they could still provide the origin in a creative way at the start of or throughout the movie without directly showing it in a boring linear fashion.

As far as tone goes, it shouldn't be dark and grim save for Batman, but it shouldn't be overly jokey and light hearted either. Each character should just have the appropriate tone to how they are generally in the comics. In a team up film, you need to have a balance and just let each character be who they are. Let their strengths and weaknesses play off each other to create a whole new entity, the team.

Eventually, after the major players have had their own solo films, THEN you can do some kind of team up. I don't know how they could do it to differentiate from the Snyderverse, but possibly introduce a threat that is impacting everyone's lives in a variety of ways, and as each hero investigates this situation, they eventually encounter each other and unite against the enemy. Kind of cliche but how else can you do it?

I agree with this for the most part, although I think Gadot can, and will be salvaged from this current DCEU. Just let her do her own thing while ignoring the fact that she was ever part of this shared universe. Same goes for Aquaman if his movie ends up connecting with people. It's going to take WB being honest about this current universe, though. Admit that some things didn't work, but praise the things that did, and let people know those things will continue with their own adventures. For the parts that didn't work, own it, and let people know they're going to try, and do better in the future.

The part where I disagree, though, is rebooting with the intent of getting to Justice League again. I think they should just put these heroes in their own world, and call it a day. No universe building, or team-ups. I think any attempts at reaching JL again in the next iteration of DC films would just be too soon.

 

[ShadowGuardian]

I agree with this for the most part, although I think Gadot can, and will be salvaged from this current DCEU. Just let her do her own thing while ignoring the fact that she was ever part of this shared universe. Same goes for Aquaman if his movie ends up connecting with people. It's going to take WB being honest about this current universe, though. Admit that some things didn't work, but praise the things that did, and let people know those things will continue with their own adventures. For the parts that didn't work, own it, and let people know they're going to try, and do better in the future.

The part where I disagree, though, is rebooting with the intent of getting to Justice League again. I think they should just put these heroes in their own world, and call it a day. No universe building, or team-ups. I think any attempts at reaching JL again in the next iteration of DC films would just be too soon.

I would be thrilled if they could salvage Gadot but I don't know how they can do it well. The general audience would probably get confused if everybody else is recast.

Fair point on the team up, but I think they have to get to Justice League again at some point. Maybe not anytime soon but it's such a waste to not allow these characters to interact. Some of the best Batman stories have an appearance from Superman. Justice League is necessary if you want characters to cross over.

 

[GeneralZodLives]

I'm not sure what to tell you then, either, or what it is exactly you're looking for that you consider to be right. Superman still giving his life for Earth after being a figure of controversy seems pretty Superman-esque to me.

A moment here and there doesn’t make up for all the rest that is ****. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[SilverStar17]

A moment here and there doesn’t make up for all the rest that is ****. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

No worries, which is why I merely was curious to know what you feel is the right way.

 

[Jameson Rook]

I always say that if they wanted to make Superman "relevant" and "lives in the real world" as Snyder says it, they should just make a live action version of Superman vs The Elite but MOS and BvS deals with the idea of being Superman rather than y'know, being Superman in a dark world. Big difference.

 

[Jameson Rook]

 

[GeneralZodLives]

I always say that if they wanted to make Superman "relevant" and "lives in the real world" as Snyder says it, they should just make a live action version of Superman vs The Elite but MOS and BvS deals with the idea of being Superman rather than y'know, being Superman in a dark world. Big difference.

Superman vs The Elite is a fantastic story that wouldn't be out of place at all with the new films. Unfortunately, WB made Superman dark to fit into their stupid universe instead of letting him be beacon of hope for it.

 

[GeneralZodLives]

$1390