The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)

[xipotec]

Episode 2: "Oh this episode was way too nostalgic, if this continues I am OUT."

Episode 4: "Oh this episode was way too nostalgic, if this continues I am OUT."

Episode 5: "Oh this episode was way too nostalgic, if this continues I am OUT."

Why is it that those who claim to hate repetition tend to be its biggest practitioners?

Repetition....well most of us obviously have a strong tendency to enjoy repetition. I mean we all watch the same films over and over.

I am disappointed by the overuse of fan service and tropes. But its SW. So Ill continue to watch , and hope. Its just a shame that the focus seems to be on ?memba dis?? Rather than good solid story.




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[guyver1]

Spoiler alert...

Are they serious

 

[ajp4mgs]

Repetition....well most of us obviously have a strong tendency to enjoy repetition. I mean we all watch the same films over and over.

I am disappointed by the overuse of fan service and tropes. But its SW. So Ill continue to watch , and hope. Its just a shame that the focus seems to be on ?memba dis?? Rather than good solid story.




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For me, the biggest problem with fan service is that it's just lazy. And laziness in writing often results in plot repetition and stagnation instead of creative (new) ways to move a plot forward. If that's the point you're making, I obviously agree with you. For example, I'll provide a brief plot description below, and then ask a simple question.

Plot synopsis: The Mandalorian takes baby Yoda with him for safekeeping, but encounters an unexpected attempt to claim the bounty on the baby and/or himself. With some friendly assistance in dealing with the threat, Mando and the baby end up escaping alive and well, but they need to fly off to another planet because this previous one is now too dangerous to stay at.

Question: Is that the plot description for Chapter 3, Chapter 4, or Chapter 5 of this show? The answer is: all three.

Chapter 3 was great, but then chapters 4 and 5 just retreaded the same essential story. Chapter 5, in particular, was nothing but an excuse to use Tatooine for the most blatant uses of fan service that I've ever seen. Take away that fan service, and there'd be zero impact on the story. Worse yet, there's no originality (or point) to the story whatsoever. In an 8-chapter season, an entire 1/8 of it was used for what amounts to very little actual story.

If nostalgia is used to tie things in for plot resolution, or to provide needed context, then it's perfectly fine. But it's just cheap fan service when it's nothing more than "remember this!?" In professional wrestling, there's something called a "cheap pop" to get an unearned crowd reaction. Fan service, in its worst form, is the filmmaking equivalent of that.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Where's my Porcelain Mando from HT?

 

[Asta]

Are they serious

Mandalorians don't joke around...

 

[Khev]

Plot synopsis: The Mandalorian takes baby Yoda with him for safekeeping, but encounters an unexpected attempt to claim the bounty on the baby and/or himself. With some friendly assistance in dealing with the threat, Mando and the baby end up escaping alive and well, but they need to fly off to another planet because this previous one is now too dangerous to stay at.

Question: Is that the plot description for Chapter 3, Chapter 4, or Chapter 5 of this show? The answer is: all three.

If such a broad generalization of each episode is what you use as your criteria for good story-telling then ESB is just as lazy as The Mandalorian.

 

[ajp4mgs]

If such a broad generalization of each episode is your criteria for good story-telling then ESB is just as lazy as The Mandalorian.

How so?

 

[Khev]

How so?

Because I can easily describe ANH and ESB in a way that makes them sound exactly the same as you did above.

Plot synopsis: Movie opens with a Star Destroyer hunting Rebels, then we encounter Luke Skywalker on a desolate planet where he gets roughed up by the indigenous life and falls unconscious until rescued. After that he is instructed in the ways of the Force, learns some backstory about Darth Vader, the Falcon is chased by four TIE Fighters, and a large scale assault on a military base is conducted. Which episode did I describe? Answer: Both.

But that's not how people describe ANH and ESB so I see no reason to do the same for Mando. Episodes 3-5 are all quite different from one another and are easy to describe as such. I'm not saying that the individual episodes themselves are wholly original as they all heavily borrow tropes from other stories from John Wick to Seven Samurai to Unforgiven but that doesn't mean that we're seeing the exact same story every week.

 

[xipotec]

Because I can easily describe ANH and ESB in a way that makes them sound exactly the same as you did above.

Plot synopsis: Movie opens with a Star Destroyer hunting Rebels, then we encounter Luke Skywalker on a desolate planet where he gets roughed up by the indigenous life and falls unconscious until rescued. After that he is instructed in the ways of the Force, learns some backstory about Darth Vader, the Falcon is chased by four TIE Fighters, and a large scale assault on a military base is conducted. Which episode did I describe? Answer: Both.

But that's not how people describe ANH and ESB so I see no reason to do the same for Mando. Episodes 3-5 are all quite different from one another and are easy to describe as such. I'm not saying that the individual episodes themselves are wholly original as they all heavily borrow tropes from other stories from John Wick to Seven Samurai to Unforgiven but that doesn't mean that we're seeing the exact same story every week.

I mean its Mando helping out people.....

And hiding the child.

Thats about all we have the last few episodes.

Still fun to watch.
I said this before , its getting to be like The Dukes of Hazzard, SW edition


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[Sassafras]

For me, the biggest problem with fan service is that it's just lazy. And laziness in writing often results in plot repetition and stagnation instead of creative (new) ways to move a plot forward. If that's the point you're making, I obviously agree with you. For example, I'll provide a brief plot description below, and then ask a simple question.

Plot synopsis: The Mandalorian takes baby Yoda with him for safekeeping, but encounters an unexpected attempt to claim the bounty on the baby and/or himself. With some friendly assistance in dealing with the threat, Mando and the baby end up escaping alive and well, but they need to fly off to another planet because this previous one is now too dangerous to stay at.

Question: Is that the plot description for Chapter 3, Chapter 4, or Chapter 5 of this show? The answer is: all three.

Chapter 3 was great, but then chapters 4 and 5 just retreaded the same essential story. Chapter 5, in particular, was nothing but an excuse to use Tatooine for the most blatant uses of fan service that I've ever seen. Take away that fan service, and there'd be zero impact on the story. Worse yet, there's no originality (or point) to the story whatsoever. In an 8-chapter season, an entire 1/8 of it was used for what amounts to very little actual story.

If nostalgia is used to tie things in for plot resolution, or to provide needed context, then it's perfectly fine. But it's just cheap fan service when it's nothing more than "remember this!?" In professional wrestling, there's something called a "cheap pop" to get an unearned crowd reaction. Fan service, in its worst form, is the filmmaking equivalent of that.

Well, don't see it that way.

I see #3 as the pivot - making a choice (and it's a h^ll of a choice really. As a later show mentions, "a bounty hunter gone rogue")

#4 - thinks he did his job (and probably can burrow into some backwater and/or underground in another Mandalorian colony for years, as apparently the Mandalorians will protect their own, but accepts it's worse than that. Not over yet. Another pivot. He wasn't planning on being a protector long term.
(Also happily introduces Cara Dune, which IMO adds a very nice bit of color in the form of a disenfranchised Rebel. Never seen that before - someone unenthused about this great new world after the revolution and she was on the "right side", yet. (Also there's a hint, maybe, she MIGHT have done something questionable tho maybe desertion is enough).

#5 - firmly entrenched as protector and new life on the run, possibly permanently. Non-guild work, which is a definite step down. Assuming the Mandalorians would even take the child in, both Mando and the child are targets now. (Besides seeing Mando pilot skills tho briefly.)

So IMO #5 leads to some interesting possibilities, and possible scenarios, like, if Mando cares for the Child, would he now go to other Mandalorians for help? I mean, #4 makes it clear the Child was happy outdoors etc. But to the Mandalorians "secrecy is survival".

Don't mind being spoon-fed Mandalorian and journey details 'coz that's been one of my biggest MCU beefs - the LACK of details. Ordinary scenes like BW tracking down Cap in IW, for instance. At least this kind of show allows for those moments. #4 even managed to slip in "ok, the Mandalorian does eat normally and does take off his helmet". Small stuff but it's part of the world-building and color.

Yeah, fan service but whatever (so far). I prefer NEW planets etc. but winding up in some back alley in Mos Eiesley was alright. At least it wasn't the same hangar that Solo used. Anyway it might not be laziness so much as Filoni thought fans might enjoy the setting - some did, apparently, some didn't. (Actually didn't bother me as much as another *&&^% bar in ATF - I mean, this was a new "ancient" character Maz Kanata and it's another &^% watering hole with weird stuff - couldn't she have been in a temple or been a beekeeper or something?)

BTW out of all the SW universe only Yoda, the farmers in Mandalorian, and Aunt Beru seem to cook and eat at home. Everyone else spends their time in the street or in pubs.

 

[Khev]

I mean its Mando helping out people.....

And hiding the child.

Thats about all we have the last few episodes.

Still fun to watch.
I said this before , its getting to be like The Dukes of Hazzard, SW edition

In other words it's a TV show.

"I don't get the hype about ER. I just watched three episodes in a room where people got patched up in an ER. Every episode it's 'memba hospitals.' So lazy."

 

[ajp4mgs]

Because I can easily describe ANH and ESB in a way that makes them sound exactly the same as you did above.

Plot synopsis: Movie opens with a Star Destroyer hunting Rebels, then we encounter Luke Skywalker on a desolate planet where he gets roughed up by the indigenous life and falls unconscious until rescued. After that he is instructed in the ways of the Force, learns some backstory about Darth Vader, the Falcon is chased by four TIE Fighters, and a large scale assault on a military base is conducted. Which episode did I describe? Answer: Both.

But that's not how people describe ANH and ESB so I see no reason to do the same for Mando. Episodes 3-5 are all quite different from one another and are easy to describe as such. I'm not saying that the individual episodes themselves are wholly original as they all heavily borrow tropes from other stories from John Wick to Seven Samurai to Unforgiven but that doesn't mean that we're seeing the exact same story every week.

I give you props for creativity in constructing a synopsis that effectively makes your point, but when I wrote out my Mando synopsis, it was genuinely motivated by the fact that I sat there after Chapter 5 somewhat stunned that we were in the exact same spot as we were at the end of Chapter 4.

You probably didn't get that sense when you watched it, but that was my genuine feeling (along with "holy crap! That was a ****-ton of callbacks and fan service!"). I thought that the fan service ended up being the whole point of the episode, rather than being a necessary part of a plot that was meant to progress the larger story.

My sense is that Dave Filoni essentially used an entire episode (one of only eight in the season) to have callback after callback to things he no doubt loves and admires passionately, and knows that other fans do too. I admire his love and passion for SW, but I don't admire his storytelling skills. The fan service rings hollow and cheap to me. I'd prefer if this show was all Favreau; no Filoni.

There will always be structural differences with each episode, but I think that Chapter 5 made no effort to move the story forward. It took Mando through the same exact paces as the previous episode (reach a remote and relatively desolate planet, encounter someone who needs his help, find that he unwittingly put baby Yoda in harm's way, get some friendly assistance in eliminating that threat, then move on to a new planet because that one could now be too easy of a target). That's not me creatively conjuring up unavoidable similarities; that's me reciting my honest reaction to the plot of chapter 5 and how I feel it was redundant because it was more important to Filoni just to get to do his own live-action Tatooine SW tribute.

Despite what you may think, I'm not trying to unfairly characterize anything here. It's just how this stuff is coming across to me. I'm not a fan of Filoni from CW, to Rebels, to his writing of this last chapter of Mando. And I think he used this episode in a way that I don't find creative or valuable to the larger story. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just how I see it.

 

[Sassafras]

In other words it's a TV show.

"I don't get the hype about ER. I just watched three episodes in a room where people got patched up in an ER. Every episode it's 'memba hospitals.' So lazy."

Thank the Valar. I hate that feeling when ur into something and then ur sitting there 'coz there isn't gonna be any more. Ever.

(Well, OK, I waz glad when GOT wasn't gonna BE any more, but that waz coz the writers had quit 2 seasons before the end anyway.)

 

[TaliBane]

I mean its Mando helping out people.....

And hiding the child.

Thats about all we have the last few episodes.

Still fun to watch.
I said this before , its getting to be like The Dukes of Hazzard, SW edition


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Full disclosure: Dukes of Hazzard was one of my (and most of my brothers') all-time fave shows when I was a kid. A mash-up with SW sounds kinda cool.

 

[jye4ever]

I mean yes ajp and xipo are 100% right episode 5 was spinning its wheels in nostalgia mud it ended with really nothing gained coming off 4.

I say SO WHAT!

What?s the rush.

Spinning wheels in the mud is a problem if you are TLJ a middle movie in a trilogy but in a streaming show with a season 2 being worked on what is the big deal.

Let it repeat events because just like muscle training in the gym repetition builds characters like it does muscles.

The challenge of doing that however is to make that repetition fun, thrilling and compelling so that boredom doesn?t set in.

I?m in no rush with this show.

Now watch E6 be about him picking berries and sleeping under a tree lol




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[guyver1]

I know they want this to be a homage to the old westerns but could doing characters like a Pocahontas styled Fett make it conform to being hokey and campy that it will lose it’s creative uniqueness

 

[Khev]

I give you props for creativity in constructing a synopsis that effectively makes your point, but when I wrote out my Mando synopsis, it was genuinely motivated by the fact that I sat there after Chapter 5 somewhat stunned that we were in the exact same spot as we were at the end of Chapter 4.

Fair enough. It sounds like you just don't like the journey and want them to "just get on with it already." Which I think defeats the purpose of a show like this. It really is like the wandering hero shows of old whether they be Caine in Kung Fu or Michael Landon in Highway to Heaven. But it's got the cool aspect of being hunted and always on the move like say The A-Team or Bixby Incredible Hulk. And really the fun that I see with a show like this is that they created a scenario where we can see new and familiar sites of SW (as TaliBane pointed out) and a premise that easily allows the weekly scenarios to just play out indefinitely without that need to have some big revelation and a finite resolution.

If that's not your cup of tea, and you never wanted a SW show that follows the ongoing "new villain/locale of the week" then obviously this show won't appeal to you. Nothing wrong with that. Streaming shows like Netflix Daredevil or Stranger Things that basically dump entire seasons as one 13 hour narrative with a beginning, middle, and end certainly have changed the TV landscape. And if you prefer that approach then I could easily see how a throwback to shows from the 70's or 80's would feel like one or more steps backward.

But I find just such a throwback to be perfect for a property like Star Wars.

You probably didn't get that sense when you watched it, but that was my genuine feeling (along with "holy crap! That was a ****-ton of callbacks and fan service!"). I thought that the fan service ended up being the whole point of the episode, rather than being a necessary part of a plot that was meant to progress the larger story.

My sense is that Dave Filoni essentially used an entire episode (one of only eight in the season) to have callback after callback to things he no doubt loves and admires passionately, and knows that other fans do too. I admire his love and passion for SW, but I don't admire his storytelling skills. The fan service rings hollow and cheap to me. I'd prefer if this show was all Favreau; no Filoni.

I agree that Favreau is a much more polished storyteller than Filoni but as I've said before I think the constant cries of "callbacks/fan service" is epicly overblown (not by you per se, but in general.) It's like if any property is more than a decade old then it instantly and forever is disallowed from revisiting any past character or location.

If John Wick revisits the Continental in JW3 then no big, that's just a sequel continuing to highlight one of the series' main locations. But if John Wick 4 were to come out in 20 years and show the Continental then it's suddenly OMG memba berries galore, lol. It's been 36 years since ROTJ, are they literally *never* allowed to revisit Tatooine? Because if they do revisit Tatooine it's already been pretty clearly established that there isn't going to be a lot of variety in what they see. Again to echo TaliBane I was pretty thrilled to catch the Cantina on a slow day and yes I did smile like a dork when he flew over the same cliff that Luke and Ben stood on but come on that was literally two seconds of screen time.

The majority of the story took place in a different hangar and in totally different locations in the desert which was also cool (particulary that first shot of the swoop bikes zipping over the crags and then entering the sweeping dunes. Your mileage varies of course and that's fine, nothing wrong with having different expectations for different productions.

 

[jye4ever]

ajp house alarm activated while watching Mando

Oh look Tattooine...

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[Khev]

Lol, I said 36 years since ROTJ totally forgetting that Tatooine was feature in all three prequels. Stupid PT, lol.

 

[The Buffinator]

Lol, I said 36 years since ROTJ totally forgetting that Tatooine was feature in all three prequels. Stupid PT, lol.

There were prequels? I had no idea...