The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)

[user 64404]

That?s kinda my point.....being knighted into a broken organization is irrelevant.

All these ?new? Jedi are not jedi at all as they do not follow any of the organizational structure of what the Jedi were as we have been shown.

Now if you want to call them Jedi in some sort of spiritual sense I get where you are coming from. But they are NOT Jedi as we have been taught Jedi should be, and how they have been shown. They follow exactly nothing of the ?code? we have been told they need to.

Perhaps they are ?new Jedi? but if that?s the case why even call them that at all.

Someone calling you a Christian when you do not practice any of that religions tenets does not make you a Christian.

Yoda entire appearance in the ST basically says the same thing. It?s probably just semantics , but call them Jedi if you want to. But according to what we las saw of how the Jedi operated, Calling them Jedi is just an easy way to label what they are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually they are better Jedi than most jedi in the prequels, they follow their religion with criticism and not blindly like the jedi from the fall of the republic.
Ahsoka, Erza and Kanan were better Jedi than Luke(until TLJ, when Luke learned his final lesson about not being so stiff in their teachings) because of that.
When i say better jedi is not in terms of power level.

 

[chrisstbh]

I watched again to see if I was being a *&^% about it.

Well, at first I think she logically thought this was just another of the Magistrate's guys, then she thought, based on his explanation, that he was there just because Bo-katan had sent him, but THEN she's told Mando actually got a direct commission to take her out, which she hadn't known, or that Mando had spoken directly to the Magistrate. Which is a lot more disconcerting I think, knowing a Mandalorian had been offered a commission, than the usual grunt soldier. Which IMO actually works as Aksoka knows what Mandalorians are capable of. Would a pulse rifle disintegrate a Jedi?

But it's clumsy muddled writing IMO that's plot service vs. someone sitting down and thinking how all this would *realistically* flow.

Like telling Din D'jarin to cool his heels at some temple for who knows how long, because one of the most awful, but hilarious, bits for me was "well, they're aren't many Jedi left". Which was supposed to be sad and tragic. But srsly, then how long is he supposed to hang out there then anyway? What happens if nothing happens? (it will, but in theory Mando could be sitting around like that knight in Indiana Jones waiting for someone to show up.) Plus IMO the directing sucks, 'coz Mando just blandly accepts all of this without losing it. Guess he's just overwhelmed with the mystery of it all.

OK, guess I am supposed to INTERPOLATE that the plan is Baby beams his thoughts into the Force, and some random Jedi Luke Skywalker gets wind of it, and starts tracking Mando for 10 seasons, but it still doesn't cover how long is Mando supposed to sit around in some ruined temple. For all he knows, the kid could be thinking "this is really boring. My butt hurts from sitting on this cold rock. I'm hungry and sure wish I had some frog eggs. Or a frog. Can we go back to Sorgon now?"

IMO tho there IS a lot of good, like Mando sitting with the kid, Biehn, visually spectacular and great set/atmosphere. And I guess I can look forward to a visit to some creepy temple rubble which is always fun. The owl was a nice touch. And the white light sabers against the murk were very, very cool. And the guy who puts his hands up and runs way from Ahkosa was funny, even it that kind of thing has been done before. The bell getting sliced and falling - good stuff. Plus I can look forward to spending more money on the blackened armor version of Mando with the diecast spear.

She sees a fully kitted out Mandalorian randomly strolling into where she is camped out, I think it's safe for her to assume that's there to kill her after she's literally just had a confrontation with the Magistrate.
And yeah, it'd disintegrate a Jedi, they don't really have increased durability. If it fires a solid projectile then it's going to go right through a lightsaber, and then bye bye Jedi.

It's not her concern how long Din has to go and sit at the temple on Typhon, he wants to find a Jedi and she gave him the means to do so. How long he waits is up to him. I'd say a couple of days max given that whoever the Jedi ends up being is just going to hyperspace on over to Typhon.

 

[The Buffinator]

She sees a fully kitted out Mandalorian randomly strolling into where she is camped out, I think it's safe for her to assume that's there to kill her after she's literally just had a confrontation with the Magistrate.
And yeah, it'd disintegrate a Jedi, they don't really have increased durability. If it fires a solid projectile then it's going to go right through a lightsaber, and then bye bye Jedi.

It's not her concern how long Din has to go and sit at the temple on Typhon, he wants to find a Jedi and she gave him the means to do so. How long he waits is up to him. I'd say a couple of days max given that whoever the Jedi ends up being is just going to hyperspace on over to Typhon.

Just spitballing, but I think Moff Gideon will be deciding that for him.

 

[user 64404]

She sees a fully kitted out Mandalorian randomly strolling into where she is camped out, I think it's safe for her to assume that's there to kill her after she's literally just had a confrontation with the Magistrate.
And yeah, it'd disintegrate a Jedi, they don't really have increased durability. If it fires a solid projectile then it's going to go right through a lightsaber, and then bye bye Jedi.

It's not her concern how long Din has to go and sit at the temple on Typhon, he wants to find a Jedi and she gave him the means to do so. How long he waits is up to him. I'd say a couple of days max given that whoever the Jedi ends up being is just going to hyperspace on over to Typhon.

Its not just solid, the lightsaber melt solid projects, the bullet have to be especial like covered in beskar (who is really rare).
What do you guys think about who is in charge of the villains?

Palpatine starting the First Order through Snoke or Moff Gideon working for Thrawn in a separate empire faction ? The empire from ROTJ divided in two factions, one lead by Palpatine and the other lead by Thrawn.

 

[The Buffinator]

This is what I'm thinking for the remaining episodes:

1. Mando takes Grogu to Typhon but Moff Gideon shows up and kidnaps the little brat;
2. Moff Gideon works for Thrawn and takes Grogu to him;
3. Ahsoka wants to find Thrawn (more specifically, Ezra Bridges);
4. Bo-Katan wants to find Moff Gideon (more specifically, the Dark Saber);
5. Mando wants to rescue Grogu;
6. Mando, Ahsoka, Bo-Katan, Koska, Axe, Cara & Greef (maybe Cobb Vanth too) converge on Thrawn's location and launch a "rescue mission" with conflicting priorities, but despite this they succeed until
7. Mythrol (Horatio Sanz's character) sells them out and they are captured. Cliffhanger - see you next October!

 

[ajp4mgs]

Ahsoka didn't know Din was "a good guy" and had every reason to assume otherwise. And if you want to adhere strictly to Filoni's script, she's no Jedi (her own words) so her particularly aggressive response is also well in character.

Is it really?

Below is a clip from a TCW episode (also released this year) showing how Ahsoka deals with Mandalorians. Please note the extent to which she goes in trying to disarm (not dismember) them.



Seems to me like she had a pretty good grasp on how to neutralize a Mandalorian without any bloodlust. And we're talking *multiple* opponents at once in some cases. Not sure where you're getting the "well in character" vibe if you're concurrently convinced that she wasn't trying to merely disarm Din.

She didn't leave the Jedi Order because she had a conflicting view of Jedi morality. She left because the Council members seemed convinced that she'd be capable of being a violent criminal. She wasn't.

 

[ajp4mgs]

This is what I'm thinking for the remaining episodes:

1. Mando takes Grogu to Typhon but Moff Gideon shows up and kidnaps the little brat;
2. Moff Gideon works for Thrawn and takes Grogu to him;
3. Ahsoka wants to find Thrawn (more specifically, Ezra Bridges);
4. Bo-Katan wants to find Moff Gideon (more specifically, the Dark Saber);
5. Mando wants to rescue Grogu;
6. Mando, Ahsoka, Bo-Katan, Koska, Axe, Cara & Greef (maybe Cobb Vanth too) converge on Thrawn's location and launch a "rescue mission" with conflicting priorities, but despite this they succeed until
7. Mythrol (Horatio Sanz's character) sells them out and they are captured. Cliffhanger - see you next October!

My guess is that the overarching plot will unfold slower than that. I'm not expecting a return of Bo-Katan and crew this season (wouldn't mind being wrong). And I don't expect Thrawn to be involved in terms of seeing him interact on screen this season either (reeeeeeally hope I'm wrong).

 

[chrisstbh]

Just spitballing, but I think Moff Gideon will be deciding that for him.

Almost a guarantee that Gideon will show up on Typhon.

Its not just solid, the lightsaber melt solid projects, the bullet have to be especial like covered in beskar (who is really rare).
What do you guys think about who is in charge of the villains?

Palpatine starting the First Order through Snoke or Moff Gideon working for Thrawn in a separate empire faction ? The empire from ROTJ divided in two factions, one lead by Palpatine and the other lead by Thrawn.

True, although if they melt it with the lightsaber the molten fragments will still pass through and injure or kill them.

Is it really?

Below is a clip from a TCW episode (also released this year) showing how Ahsoka deals with Mandalorians. Please note the extent to which she goes in trying to disarm (not dismember) them.

Seems to me like she had a pretty good grasp on how to neutralize a Mandalorian without any bloodlust. And we're talking *multiple* opponents at once in some cases. Not sure where you're getting the "well in character" vibe if you're concurrently convinced that she wasn't trying to merely disarm Din.

She didn't leave the Jedi Order because she had a conflicting view of Jedi morality. She left because the Council members seemed convinced that she'd be capable of being a violent criminal. She wasn't.

That's also almost 30 years prior to this. She has been through a lot since then and changed as a person.

 

[hellgrammite00]

Is it really?

Below is a clip from a TCW episode (also released this year) showing how Ahsoka deals with Mandalorians. Please note the extent to which she goes in trying to disarm (not dismember) them.



Seems to me like she had a pretty good grasp on how to neutralize a Mandalorian without any bloodlust. And we're talking *multiple* opponents at once in some cases. Not sure where you're getting the "well in character" vibe if you're concurrently convinced that she wasn't trying to merely disarm Din.

She didn't leave the Jedi Order because she had a conflicting view of Jedi morality. She left because the Council members seemed convinced that she'd be capable of being a violent criminal. She wasn't.

I am not sure your point, she is efficiently killing like 6 people in this scene. This shows her to be a cold calculating killer when she wants to be. She is able to dispatch those mandolorians very easily (interesting she hits their jet packs, causing them to explode killing the Mandos...smart move.)

It is why most of us know they de-powered her for the Mando TV show.

 

[The Buffinator]

My guess is that the overarching plot will unfold slower than that. I'm not expecting a return of Bo-Katan and crew this season (wouldn't mind being wrong). And I don't expect Thrawn to be involved in terms of seeing him interact on screen this season either (reeeeeeally hope I'm wrong).

Yeah, that's mostly wishful thinking on my part lol. Then again, most of the seeds have been planted. Bo-Katan's knowing Ahsoka's whereabouts implies that she also knows WHY she's there, so IMO it's likely that their goals are aligned to the extent that they're working together. And if that's the case it's also likely that Gideon & Thrawn are connected.

My guess is Thrawn won't be there when the good guys arrive & will only appear via hologram (if he appears at all). Gideon is the big bad at this point in the show.

 

[ZE_501]

Is it really? Below is a clip from a TCW episode (also released this year) showing how Ahsoka deals with Mandalorians. Please note the extent to which she goes in trying to disarm (not dismember) them.[snip]

She's blowing up their jetpacks several thousand feet in the air (death), she's deflecting blaster bolts back at them (death).

It's true she's not graphically cutting them in half, but it's not like she wasn't depicted killing sentients -- either in the clip or in other episodes. Ahsoka is a killer, just like her teacher.

 

[user 64404]

I think Moff Gideon will be the big bad guy from the mandalorian, leaving Thrawn for a potencial new series for the Filoni characters.
We have to remember that Snoke and Palpatine (as Hologram) are doing stuff in the backstage.
The Dark Empire storyline can be adapted using Smoke as the Palpatine clone to fight Luke, when i say clone i mean a copy with self identity that is what Snoke seemed to be in the ST.

 

[ajp4mgs]

That's also almost 30 years prior to this. She has been through a lot since then and changed as a person.

That's absolutely possible. My question had to do with how could her behavior be considered "in character" if it requires saying that her character (approach, morality, outlook, etc) changed since the last time we saw her?

I am not sure your point, she is efficiently killing like 6 people in this scene. This shows her to be a cold calculating killer when she wants to be. She is able to dispatch those mandolorians very easily (interesting she hits their jet packs, causing them to explode killing the Mandos...smart move.)

It is why most of us know they de-powered her for the Mando TV show.

Wow! You consider the way she handled those Mandos in TCW to be reflective of a cold, calculating killer!? I don't get that sense at all. Her TCW approach to me seems like *having* to do something unfortunate when opponents are trying to kill you, yet still trying anything possible to disarm them in a way that doesn't amount to a direct kill.

Sometimes their blaster bolts are deflected back at them. That's self-defense. Sometimes their jetpacks explode and they likely fall to their death. But maybe - just maybe - they're scooped out of midair by an ally before going splat. Seems to me like there was anything but a cold and calculated killer presented in that TCW clip. I guess I just have a weird and skewed interpretation then.

Yeah, that's mostly wishful thinking on my part lol. Then again, most of the seeds have been planted. Bo-Katan's knowing Ahsoka's whereabouts implies that she also knows WHY she's there, so IMO it's likely that their goals are aligned to the extent that they're working together. And if that's the case it's also likely that Gideon & Thrawn are connected.

My guess is Thrawn won't be there when the good guys arrive & will only appear via hologram (if he appears at all). Gideon is the big bad at this point in the show.

Agreed on your assessment of the role Bo-Katan has played. That's why I think her involvement was narrow in focus until the Gideon/darksaber element takes center stage. At that point, the Mandalorian will actually be about, y'know . . . Mandalorians. But I don't think that's happening in the next three episodes. I'm thinking we'll see that play out next season. But again, I hope I'm wrong and we see a faster escalation that pushes the story closer to me getting to the Thrawn stuff.

She's blowing up their jetpacks several thousand feet in the air (death), she's deflecting blaster bolts back at them (death).

It's true she's not graphically cutting them in half, but it's not like she wasn't depicted killing sentients -- either in the clip or in other episodes. Ahsoka is a killer, just like her teacher.

I'm not suggesting that Jedi can't kill. Of course opponents will have to die sometimes as a consequence of battle. What I'm saying is that *how* Ahsoka approaches a Mandalorian confrontation has been established. She doesn't strike to kill directly; her opponents die as a consequence of needing to be dispatched as an immediate threat. But it's not necessarily a 100% given that they'll die.

My point is that there are enough examples of Ahsoka acting in a way that I consider to be markedly different than her approach with Din. I guess you see it differently than I do. That distinction in interpretation is where the disconnect is, I suppose. I don't get where you're coming from with "well in character," and you probably can't understand where I'm seeing a significance in the distinction with how she handles a Mandalorian opponent.

 

[chrisstbh]

That's absolutely possible. My question had to do with how could her behavior be considered "in character" if it requires saying that her character (approach, morality, outlook, etc) changed since the last time we saw her?

I don't think she has any problem killing Imperial remnants and anyone associated with them at this point, especially after all of the pain and suffering the Empire caused to both her and those she cared about. Anyone still working for the Empire 5 years after it collapsed is an outright bad person, it doesn't matter if they need a paycheck or not.

 

[user 64404]

I don't think she has any problem killing Imperial remnants and anyone associated with them at this point, especially after all of the pain and suffering the Empire caused to both her and those she cared about. Anyone still working for the Empire 5 years after it collapsed is an outright bad person, it doesn't matter if they need a paycheck or not.

Actually Ahsoka in the beginning of the Clone Wars was really aggressive toward her enemies, Anakin changed her to be better a Jedi even if he himself not followed his own advises, in the end of the clone wars she start to be more careful and to fight smart like Obiwan.
This continue in rebels but as we saw in Mandalorian she is in a midle ground now, agressive as she was in the beggining of TCW but smart and strategic as show in Rebels.

 

[Sassafras]

She sees a fully kitted out Mandalorian randomly strolling into where she is camped out, I think it's safe for her to assume that's there to kill her after she's literally just had a confrontation with the Magistrate.
And yeah, it'd disintegrate a Jedi, they don't really have increased durability. If it fires a solid projectile then it's going to go right through a lightsaber, and then bye bye Jedi.

It's not her concern how long Din has to go and sit at the temple on Typhon, he wants to find a Jedi and she gave him the means to do so. How long he waits is up to him. I'd say a couple of days max given that whoever the Jedi ends up being is just going to hyperspace on over to Typhon.

Wrote that badly *cough* - yeah, she's know it's a Mandalorian and I don't have any issues at all up to then...I guess later Din D'jarin is forcefully reminding her that he was sent specifically to kill her. I imagine if he'd really been stalking her, he might have had a chance.

Mostly because Boba seemed to sport light saber hilts as trophies (tho don't know the history of that).

But while sitting around at a ruined Jedi temple may not be her concern, IMO it should have been. Rebels makes the point several times that Jedi temples are tricky places. Plus attracting the attention of the Dark Side. Which at this point Din D'jarin knows nothing about.

Happily for me tho, Favreau is writing the next episode thank Gawd. Maybe Din will run into a Chirrut Imwe type hanging around that will smooth over some of these IMO logic/character depiction lapses.

 

[Khev]

Despite ZE_501's attempt at gaslighting any opinion he doesn't agree with () my point was that neither Ahsoka nor Luke were acting out of character, but you wouldn't know that from certain fan reactions to them.

Ahsoka gave the Magistrate an ultimatum and a 24 hour countdown before she faced her one final time so I'm fine with her wrongly assuming that the Magistrate would send a big gun to take her out before then once and for all.

The fact still remains though that Ahsoka, one of the purest characters in all of SW (her reluctance to go for insta-kills even during open war proves that time and time again), tried to murder a non-enemy based on a faulty assumption and everyone gives both her character and the writer an instant pass. Whereas Luke *rightly sees* the *actual* death and destruction that will be caused by the *evil* man before him and simply *thinks a bad thought* and many people carry on like it was some sort of character assassination. It's just funny to see the double standards at work, that's all.

 

[Sassafras]

Yeah, that's mostly wishful thinking on my part lol. Then again, most of the seeds have been planted. Bo-Katan's knowing Ahsoka's whereabouts implies that she also knows WHY she's there, so IMO it's likely that their goals are aligned to the extent that they're working together. And if that's the case it's also likely that Gideon & Thrawn are connected.

My guess is Thrawn won't be there when the good guys arrive & will only appear via hologram (if he appears at all). Gideon is the big bad at this point in the show.

IMO that is how it should be - assuming this show was supposed to keep things fresh. IMO it is way too soon if u are really trying to establish a set of new characters to (potentially) turn the Mandalorian into a Rebels or other sequel. That's too cluttered IMO, past careful guest appearances.

But looking at the writer credits - I guess this one was Filoni's baby - as well as, possibly, pressure from Disney to set up another show. Maybe.
https://collider.com/the-mandalorian-season-2-writers-episodes/

IMO just from the online chatter tho - LOL it's all Filoni's fault. I mean he ended Rebels but clearly - at least from some - there's an appetite for more. Thrawn. Even I would like to see what happens with Ezra. Don't NEED it to happen, but it might be interesting. So Filoni should just cave and do an Ahsoka series, given the budget. It's not like Disney Plus is over-crammed with fresh content.

 

[ZE_501]

[...]Wow! You consider the way she handled those Mandos in TCW to be reflective of a cold, calculating killer!? I don't get that sense at all. Her TCW approach to me seems like *having* to do something unfortunate when opponents are trying to kill you, yet still trying anything possible to disarm them in a way that doesn't amount to a direct kill.

Weeellll...it's a cartoon. She's carved up dozens (hundreds?) of sentients but there are loopholes for that so little kids can still watch it.

Sometimes their blaster bolts are deflected back at them. That's self-defense.

Lethal self-defense. Ahsoka and the rest of the Clone Wars-era Jedi are marines. They're an aggressive fighting force that kills the enemy and takes objectives. No way around that, to wit:

Sometimes their jetpacks explode and they likely fall to their death. But maybe - just maybe - they're scooped out of midair by an ally before going splat. Seems to me like there was anything but a cold and calculated killer presented in that TCW clip. I guess I just have a weird and skewed interpretation then.

It's an active, chaotic battle. Chances are very high they plummet to their doom if burns and shrapnel from the fiery explosion strapped to their back doesn't kill them first.

It's not as if I don't see what you mean from a certain point of view, but Ashoka's been killing sentients in combat since she was a pre-teen and even made a game of her kill count (Landing At Point Rain -- although to be fair I don't recall if that was all enemy units or just droids).

Republic and Jedi propagandists have no problem showing their lightsaber-wielding killers dispatching droids or even Geonosians (not just the Empire was racist) but tend to tiptoe around the deaths of human species like Mandalorians. Even so, a close viewing of that clip shows a bad end for many of them.

She was in an active combat zone when Din tracked her and she reacted to kill, as she has done in most active combat zones since she was a kid.

I'm not suggesting that Jedi can't kill. Of course opponents will have to die sometimes as a consequence of battle. What I'm saying is that *how* Ahsoka approaches a Mandalorian confrontation has been established. She doesn't strike to kill directly; her opponents die as a consequence of needing to be dispatched as an immediate threat. But it's not necessarily a 100% given that they'll die.

Cold comfort to the sentients maimed, burned and/or killed in combat with Jedi forces.

My point is that there are enough examples of Ahsoka acting in a way that I consider to be markedly different than her approach with Din. I guess you see it differently than I do. That distinction in interpretation is where the disconnect is, I suppose. I don't get where you're coming from with "well in character," and you probably can't understand where I'm seeing a significance in the distinction with how she handles a Mandalorian opponent.

Although I'm being slightly tongue-in-cheek at this point, I see her character as a war vet with many, many kills under her belt and don't think it was unusual that she was ready to add the armoured stranger tracking her to the very long list.

 

[Sassafras]

Despite ZE_501's attempt at gaslighting any opinion he doesn't agree with () my point was that neither Ahsoka nor Luke were acting out of character, but you wouldn't know that from certain fan reactions to them.

Ahsoka gave the Magistrate an ultimatum and a 24 hour countdown before she faced her one final time so I'm fine with her wrongly assuming that the Magistrate would send a big gun to take her out before then once and for all.

The fact still remains though that Ahsoka, one of the purest characters in all of SW (her reluctance to go for insta-kills even during open war proves that time and time again), tried to murder a non-enemy based on a faulty assumption and everyone gives both her character and the writer an instant pass. Whereas Luke *rightly sees* the *actual* death and destruction that will be caused by the *evil* man before him and simply *thinks a bad thought* and many people carry on like it was some sort of character assassination. It's just funny to see the double standards at work, that's all.

Ahsoka isn't as important as Luke tho - human nature. Luke is gawdlike in stature so he's on a huge pedestal. He brought VADER back.

One reason I never took to Ahsoka is there's the faintest whiff of fan fiction dynamic there IMO. Never was completely comfortable with the whole Anakin-gets-a-padawan tho like a lot of folks, think the character gets better the older she gets. (Although my fav characters tend to have a dark edge, so I'd take Bo-katan over Ahsoka, who is too pure for this world).

Actually tho Ahsoka WAS pretty dark in this, compared to the character I knew. Don't usually picture her like a determined vengeful and ruthless spirit. Bo-katan or even Sabine Wren, yes. Ahsoka, no.

Anyway am pretty sure the whole "opens himself to the Force" thing is gonna end multiple seasons from now with Luke finding Baby - because that's what he says he was doing, rebuilding the Jedi, gathering students. It's a possibility - that ties directly to the ST, and clearly Favreau is more than happy to embrace the ST existence.