The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)

[JAWS]

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[Sassafras]

Ahsoka has been a fan favorite for years, was already assumed to be alive in the Mando timeline *and* is known and trusted by prominent Mandalorians. Her appearance is the very definition of an organic progression of the story.

Plus having her appear versus some random new Jedi fabricated out of thin air keeps the overall Jedi population properly small and mysterious.

We've got Grogu. We've got Luke. We've got Ahsoka.
Plus whatever other kids Luke may be currently training. No need to dilute things further just a few short years after ROTJ with full fledged "Jedi of the Week" randomly appearing as fully trained adults IMO.

Jedi of the Week. I'm gonna keep a tally tho. Pretty sure Mace Windu, Qui-Gon, Obi-wan, and Yoda are gonna make an appearance. As well as a glaring Kylo, tho it will be funny if Grogu tries to force choke Kylo.

As for Ahsoka being a fan favorite - yeah, there's reason for her to be there, in theory, since Bo-katan knew her. And just as much reason IMO for her NOT to be there, if Favreau had wanted to preserve his original stated vision (since last I knew, Ahsoka was supposed to be elsewhere anyway). I mean, Favreau DID say this show was about the Mandalorian (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uc-7qeYx-4) "New characters, in a way we've never seen before". Not "Clone Wars Season 8".

And I disagree that adding one Jedi to the greatly reduced Jedi population wouldn't be interesting. For me - admittedly neutral on Ahsoka anyway - there's been more than enough Ahsoka. She turns up everywhere. More than a whiff of how she somehow could have saved Anakin, and other stuff I am none too comfortable with, as narratives go.

Favreau may SAY "Game of Thrones" but IMO it's looking more like the MCU with all the crossovers (and we all know how GOT ended up so probably not the best analogy). Heck, I wouldn't have minded Ahsoka showing up, except 1) make it an INTERESTING meeting and 2) don't hijack an entire show, pretty much, so u can have your favorite creation flash her light sabers a lot and then name drop - especially when a good chunk of the audience has probably never heard of Thrawn.

But, whether it's Disney's influence and wanting to sell more toys; or Favreau and Filoni being old school SW fans - if the show is making a turn to a more superficial, lots of flash, SW character-stuffed fan service show that doesn't upset the kids - nothing I can do about it. It's not that I won't watch. It's just not with the same level of fanatical obsession, or much desire to spend on pricey collectibles. Wouldn't be the first time whatever I planned on collecting came to a screeching halt.

 

[Khev]

On the contrary since there's already a ton of Ahsoka products (even brand new ones related to her recent TCW Season 7 appearance) I would think that bringing in brand new Jedi would actually be catering to merchandise first, storytelling second. But as you said, agree to disagree.

I do wish that they had given Luke a slightly new outfit though (or at least a different hairstyle, something.) Not only would that give an excuse to yes release another action figure but I was hoping for a little more evolution of his look half a decade later.

 

[JAWS]

I do wish that they had given Luke a slightly new outfit though (or at least a different hairstyle, something.) Not only would that give an excuse to yes release another action figure but I was hoping for a little more evolution of his look half a decade later.

But why??

My look has stayed exactly the same since 1990

;lol

 

[Sassafras]

Ahsoka alluded to it with the bit about using the Force without controlling emotions can ruin the best of us. Besides, these episodes are too short to waste time going into unnecessary exposition lol.

Yes, I said something similar several days ago.

One person's exposition is another's "I am listening to a clunky script that is 1) trying to make this character seem all deep and poignant and whatnot, without bothering to explain in the slightest why Din D'jarin should take this at face value or even care"; and 2) don't get me started on that script and the massive, character de-railing holes and logic lapses again. Not unless I have some spotchka.

Example of a good script combined with excellent performances - see Season 2, Chapter 15. Or even Boba explaining his armor to Din D'jarin.

And I am aware of how HAPPY Luke's, Ahsoka's etc. appearances made people. IMO putting characters like that into Season 2 for *&^%$ sake - not even working more with the characters that were put on the board - was depressing for me, as that kind of "dilution" was exactly what other commenters on various sites were afraid of. I wasn't, as Favreau must've been very aware of the missteps with the ST. But there it is.



This, BTW, is how u do a great scene without any flashy action. U could argue it could be skipped, but it's foreshadowing. Also the dialogue is consistent with how the characters are initially presented. Vs our "hiding his abilities WTF"......

 

[Khev]

This, BTW, is how u do a great scene without any flashy action. U could argue it could be skipped, but it's foreshadowing. Also the dialogue is consistent with how the characters are initially presented. Vs our "hiding his abilities WTF"......

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It's not either/or.

There's no reason they can't have scenes like the one above in some episodes and Ahsoka kicking ass in others...as the series itself has already proven.

One thing I'm sure we'll agree on is that that moment with Grogu reaching out to Din while he fixed his armor at dusk is one of the *best* scenes in the entire series and ranks as just a great moment in the Saga all around.

However with that said it doesn't inherently make different types of sequences with previously known characters "wrong" or out of place.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Jedi of the Week. I'm gonna keep a tally tho. Pretty sure Mace Windu, Qui-Gon, Obi-wan, and Yoda are gonna make an appearance. As well as a glaring Kylo, tho it will be funny if Grogu tries to force choke Kylo.

As for Ahsoka being a fan favorite - yeah, there's reason for her to be there, in theory, since Bo-katan knew her. And just as much reason IMO for her NOT to be there, if Favreau had wanted to preserve his original stated vision (since last I knew, Ahsoka was supposed to be elsewhere anyway). I mean, Favreau DID say this show was about the Mandalorian (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uc-7qeYx-4) "New characters, in a way we've never seen before". Not "Clone Wars Season 8".

And I disagree that adding one Jedi to the greatly reduced Jedi population wouldn't be interesting. For me - admittedly neutral on Ahsoka anyway - there's been more than enough Ahsoka. She turns up everywhere. More than a whiff of how she somehow could have saved Anakin, and other stuff I am none too comfortable with, as narratives go.

Favreau may SAY "Game of Thrones" but IMO it's looking more like the MCU with all the crossovers (and we all know how GOT ended up so probably not the best analogy). Heck, I wouldn't have minded Ahsoka showing up, except 1) make it an INTERESTING meeting and 2) don't hijack an entire show, pretty much, so u can have your favorite creation flash her light sabers a lot and then name drop - especially when a good chunk of the audience has probably never heard of Thrawn.

But, whether it's Disney's influence and wanting to sell more toys; or Favreau and Filoni being old school SW fans - if the show is making a turn to a more superficial, lots of flash, SW character-stuffed fan service show that doesn't upset the kids - nothing I can do about it. It's not that I won't watch. It's just not with the same level of fanatical obsession, or much desire to spend on pricey collectibles. Wouldn't be the first time whatever I planned on collecting came to a screeching halt.

I have to turn your minority of one on this issue into a minority of two.

Ahsoka was used to launch her own spinoff, plain and simple. And her spinoff will be used to contextualize a wide-ranging crossover with Thrawn as the overarching big bad. A continuation of Rebels, and an adaptation of old EU. I'm looking forward to it, but I do agree that it's a clear departure from the setup in Season 1 of The Mandalorian.

If the whole point all along was to get Grogu to Luke, there's a multitude of ways it could've been done without the series of side quests leading from 1.) Bo-Katan to 2.) Ahsoka to 3.) sitting the baby on a rock to 4.) Luke showing up.

I think it would've been pretty cool for Din to learn about the Jedi by hunting down his own leads (his profession makes him adept at tracking, after all). Tracking a Jedi trail of crumbs that would lead to discovering Luke could've been done in a way that introduced characters similar to Chirrut or Lor San Tekka. Not having to be actual Jedi, yet able to provide guidance and historical info. All while better fitting the gunslinger/western motif of Season 1, imo. A character like Chirrut would've fit like a glove with that vibe.

The idea that all of this crossover stuff, and Ahsoka specifically, is an organic extension of the original premise of the show doesn't work with me. This is being done to get substantially bigger in scope and scale. I could be wrong, but it seems like a pivot in approach.

 

[Khev]

One thing that does bum me out about the Ahsoka series announcement is that when she appeared in Mando and was fighting her way to the Magistrate I told my son "hey for the first time ever we actually don't know if Ahsoka will survive this episode. We finally have a clean slate for anything that might happen to her."

And then nope she gets her own show and built-in script immunity for however long, lol.

Also I said before that he and I have been binging the *entire* film/TV canon from beginning to end and finally finished up the OT SE's and are jumping back into Mando Season 1.

A couple bits of note:

1. Fett does indeed become cooler in ROTJ knowing that the Sarlacc burp won't be the end of him and what lies ahead when he finally regains his armor.

2. During the extended celebration sequence at the end when they cut to all the people cheering in Mos Eisley my son said "so right now those mining guys are raiding that one town." And I must say it's fun to realize how Mando is recontextualizing some of the OT lore. Even if it did totally undermine the celebratory vibe that was the entire purpose of adding in those extra scenes in the first place, lol. But hey some will say that the ST already did that so might as well just lean into it with Mando too.

 

[a-dev]

But why??

My look has stayed exactly the same since 1990

;lol

I've centered my look roundabout the early 2000s and not really changed it since. I keep the same hairstyle I went for then, just a shorter version of it. My clothing preferences are the same - T-shirts, casual shirts, jeans with a wide leg - not super baggy - I'm just not fond of the jeans that taper and come tight around the ankles like they're going for these days.

 

[JAWS]

I've centered my look roundabout the early 2000s and not really changed it since. I keep the same hairstyle I went for then, just a shorter version of it. My clothing preferences are the same - T-shirts, casual shirts, jeans with a wide leg - not super baggy - I'm just not fond of the jeans that taper and come tight around the ankles like they're going for these days.

I have Curly hair so the look of that is Afro or short.

Like you its been t-shirts and boot fit jeans (though I mostly wear sneakers0.. Do not like the tight ankle look either.. but I am old I am not supposed to like what the kids are wearing

 

[ZE_501]

I've centered my look roundabout the early 2000s and not really changed it since. I keep the same hairstyle I went for then, just a shorter version of it. My clothing preferences are the same - T-shirts, casual shirts, jeans with a wide leg - not super baggy - I'm just not fond of the jeans that taper and come tight around the ankles like they're going for these days.

I have Curly hair so the look of that is Afro or short.

Like you its been t-shirts and boot fit jeans (though I mostly wear sneakers0.. Do not like the tight ankle look either.. but I am old I am not supposed to like what the kids are wearing

In terms of clothing I tend to favour slim cuts, but I'm over the super skinny jeans, mostly trousers these days I can actually move in ... my hair is various kinds of short, faded or outright shaved, that still changes a lot.

Given that I keep switching work environments my wardrobe has changed with them ... a lot more casual these days which is how I usually prefer it. Love me some fresh sneakers.

 

[Sassafras]

It's not either/or.

There's no reason they can't have scenes like the one above in some episodes and Ahsoka kicking ass in others...as the series itself has already proven.

One thing I'm sure we'll agree on is that that moment with Grogu reaching out to Din while he fixed his armor at dusk is one of the *best* scenes in the entire series and ranks as just a great moment in the Saga all around.

However with that said it doesn't inherently make different types of sequences with previously known characters "wrong" or out of place.

For sure. That whole night desert sequence IMO was - well, it was just perfect. The loneliness of being a bounty hunter and having to heal yourself after being badass, the empty setting, the Child thoughtfully watching and TRYING, the mutual confusion...

Well, yeah, IMO there was nothing wrong with Ahsoka running around @ss-kicking, on the face of it. Beautiful visuals.

So, OK, IMO Luke meeting Obi-Wan is classic, thanks to Alec Guinness. It's not that Filoni didn't give Din D'jarin and Ahsoka TIME. IMO the fails are: 1) script; 2)the interaction isn't compelling; 3)unlike the Boba introduction, there's a pretty good balance of skill set IMO. Yeah, overall, Boba saves the day, but Mando isn't just standing around. IMO it's like Filoni's other directed episode - there's lots of good stuff, for sure. But a lot of - well - that could've been better.

I do wish that they had given Luke a slightly new outfit though (or at least a different hairstyle, something.) Not only would that give an excuse to yes release another action figure but I was hoping for a little more evolution of his look half a decade later.

Off Insta. Yeah, but all *&%$ would have broken loose. After TLJ looks like Disney isn't into risks.

 

[Sassafras]

I have to turn your minority of one on this issue into a minority of two.

Ahsoka was used to launch her own spinoff, plain and simple. And her spinoff will be used to contextualize a wide-ranging crossover with Thrawn as the overarching big bad. A continuation of Rebels, and an adaptation of old EU. I'm looking forward to it, but I do agree that it's a clear departure from the setup in Season 1 of The Mandalorian.

If the whole point all along was to get Grogu to Luke, there's a multitude of ways it could've been done without the series of side quests leading from 1.) Bo-Katan to 2.) Ahsoka to 3.) sitting the baby on a rock to 4.) Luke showing up.

I think it would've been pretty cool for Din to learn about the Jedi by hunting down his own leads (his profession makes him adept at tracking, after all). Tracking a Jedi trail of crumbs that would lead to discovering Luke could've been done in a way that introduced characters similar to Chirrut or Lor San Tekka. Not having to be actual Jedi, yet able to provide guidance and historical info. All while better fitting the gunslinger/western motif of Season 1, imo. A character like Chirrut would've fit like a glove with that vibe.

The idea that all of this crossover stuff, and Ahsoka specifically, is an organic extension of the original premise of the show doesn't work with me. This is being done to get substantially bigger in scope and scale. I could be wrong, but it seems like a pivot in approach.

Thank you for phrasing/resphrasing so well. THIS.

*Gloomily* it's that kind of rapid bloating - as opposed to new, careful expansion way on the Outer Rim - new characters, new environments - as well as character exploration - I feel like I will be missing. I hope not. Someone wrote this show was at it's best when it wasn't Star Wars. I think what they meant was exactly about not being pulled back into the Skywalkers and co.

I would have cheered if a character somewhat like Chirrut were introduced. Supposedly there were many Jedi temples - why not?

At least, I wish the fan service had happened later, and with a lighter touch. Maybe Disney feels they did their part losing money over hiding the Child and losing toy money, so now it's their turn to sell LOTS of licenses.

 

[The Buffinator]

I have to turn your minority of one on this issue into a minority of two.

Ahsoka was used to launch her own spinoff, plain and simple. And her spinoff will be used to contextualize a wide-ranging crossover with Thrawn as the overarching big bad. A continuation of Rebels, and an adaptation of old EU. I'm looking forward to it, but I do agree that it's a clear departure from the setup in Season 1 of The Mandalorian.

If the whole point all along was to get Grogu to Luke, there's a multitude of ways it could've been done without the series of side quests leading from 1.) Bo-Katan to 2.) Ahsoka to 3.) sitting the baby on a rock to 4.) Luke showing up.

I think it would've been pretty cool for Din to learn about the Jedi by hunting down his own leads (his profession makes him adept at tracking, after all). Tracking a Jedi trail of crumbs that would lead to discovering Luke could've been done in a way that introduced characters similar to Chirrut or Lor San Tekka. Not having to be actual Jedi, yet able to provide guidance and historical info. All while better fitting the gunslinger/western motif of Season 1, imo. A character like Chirrut would've fit like a glove with that vibe.

The idea that all of this crossover stuff, and Ahsoka specifically, is an organic extension of the original premise of the show doesn't work with me. This is being done to get substantially bigger in scope and scale. I could be wrong, but it seems like a pivot in approach.

Well, saying the introductions of Ahsoka, Bo-Katan, Boba Fett, etc., are departures from the Season 1 setup & "original premise" of the show doesn't mean they're departures from what F&F had mapped out for the series even prior to Season 1. It could simply be that our preconceived notion of where the series was headed was wrong.

 

[Khev]

For sure. That whole night desert sequence IMO was - well, it was just perfect. The loneliness of being a bounty hunter and having to heal yourself after being badass, the empty setting, the Child thoughtfully watching and TRYING, the mutual confusion...

Yep, totally agree.

Well, yeah, IMO there was nothing wrong with Ahsoka running around @ss-kicking, on the face of it. Beautiful visuals.

So, OK, IMO Luke meeting Obi-Wan is classic, thanks to Alec Guinness. It's not that Filoni didn't give Din D'jarin and Ahsoka TIME. IMO the fails are: 1) script; 2)the interaction isn't compelling; 3)unlike the Boba introduction, there's a pretty good balance of skill set IMO. Yeah, overall, Boba saves the day, but Mando isn't just standing around. IMO it's like Filoni's other directed episode - there's lots of good stuff, for sure. But a lot of - well - that could've been better.

Interesting, I actually found that Din contributed more to Ahsoka's victory than Fett's. I mean when Fett showed up Din and Fennec pretty much *were* just "standing around" while his armor took a barrage of blaster fire as the Stormtroopers relentlessly advanced on the two of them. Then Fett shows up and singlehandedly routes the entire platoon and eliminates both transports.

At least when Din teamed up with Ahsoka they each got to take out one of the HK's and he stepped up and took out Lang (Biehn) after she failed to do so.

View attachment 502417

Off Insta. Yeah, but all *&%$ would have broken loose. After TLJ looks like Disney isn't into risks.

Sadly I think there's some truth to your assumption that Disney likely saw any deviation from Luke's ROTJ look as "too risky."

 

[Khev]

Well, saying the introductions of Ahsoka, Bo-Katan, Boba Fett, etc., are departures from the Season 1 setup & "original premise" of the show doesn't mean they're departures from what F&F had mapped out for the series even prior to Season 1. It could simply be that our preconceived notion of where the series was headed was wrong.

Yeah I'd have a hard time believing that ending Season 1 with "take Grogu to the Jedi" wasn't always intended to lead to Ahsoka and Luke, especially with Favreau and Filoni's involvement. Remember that not only was TCW largely Filoni's baby but Favreau was pretty invested into those characters himself with the voice work he contributed. And then Luke is well Luke so nothing else needs to be said on why all paths would lead to him.

 

[jye4ever]

Yep, totally agree.



Interesting, I actually found that Din contributed more to Ahsoka's victory than Fett's. I mean when Fett showed up Din and Fennec pretty much *were* just "standing around" while his armor took a barrage of blaster fire as the Stormtroopers relentlessly advanced on the two of them. Then Fett shows up and singlehandedly routes the entire platoon and eliminates both transports.

At least when Din teamed up with Ahsoka they each got to take out one of the HK's and he stepped up and took out Lang (Biehn) after she failed to do so.





Sadly I think there's some truth to your assumption that Disney likely saw any deviation from Luke's ROTJ look as "too risky."

Doomcockers are watching...very closely shhhhhh

 

[jye4ever]

Yeah I'd have a hard time believing that ending Season 1 with "take Grogu to the Jedi" wasn't always intended to lead to Ahsoka and Luke, especially with Favreau and Filoni's involvement. Remember that not only was TCW largely Filoni's baby but Favreau was pretty invested into those characters himself with the voice work he contributed. And then Luke is well Luke so nothing else needs to be said on why all paths would lead to him.

Yup they killed a few birds with one grogu.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Well, saying the introductions of Ahsoka, Bo-Katan, Boba Fett, etc., are departures from the Season 1 setup & "original premise" of the show doesn't mean they're departures from what F&F had mapped out for the series even prior to Season 1. It could simply be that our preconceived notion of where the series was headed was wrong.

Very true. And please don't get me wrong: I'm looking forward to a traditional and expansive version of SW storytelling since that's what I'm a big fan of (I'm as hyped for Thrawn as anyone). But I do get where someone like Sassafras is coming from. If someone was enjoying the limited and more personal scope of the loner gunslinger with a baby to deliver to safety, then getting full-blown live-action Rebels now would be a letdown.

You're right that there's no way to know for sure what the long-range plans were, but it's not like Favreau didn't go on record several times in 2019 describing how isolated the show would be from other SW storylines. Making this more of a Rebels sequel going forward wouldn't exactly jibe with that premise, imo.

It's obvious that Boba Fett was set up in Season 1. It's also obvious that the darksaber was set up in Season 1. But those elements are still directly associated with Mandalorians. There's a clear connective tissue there to Din and his origin story. But now, I think we can expect Ezra and other Jedi-related branches to the story.

I remember a discussion here (probably this very thread) prior to the debut of the first episode of the show. I wondered whether a series about a bounty hunter, without the Force and Jedi involved, would still feel like SW. The responses I got were that it was going to be refreshing to focus exclusively on scum and villainy while giving a rest to the Force and the Jedi.

 

[Sassafras]

Yeah I'd have a hard time believing that ending Season 1 with "take Grogu to the Jedi" wasn't always intended to lead to Ahsoka and Luke, especially with Favreau and Filoni's involvement. Remember that not only was TCW largely Filoni's baby but Favreau was pretty invested into those characters himself with the voice work he contributed. And then Luke is well Luke so nothing else needs to be said on why all paths would lead to him.

Well, aside from Favreau's comments on "new characters" etc. if you tell me this show is set in the Outer Rim, based on Western serials and samurai films, I'm gonna think more along the lines of the old Kung Fu series, or Rogue One...

And for a while, it was so. Even Kuiil describes the Child's abilities as "something he had heard of" - never mentions the Force tho.

I had no doubt that the road would lead to Luke. EVENTUALLY. Not, necessarily that the Child is even left with him. Maybe by that time Grogu would have made the decision he doesn't wanna be a Jedi - since Filoni opened that door. You don't HAVE to be a Jedi just because you can wield the Force.

I sure didn't think Ahsoka would show up at all, since in theory she was BUSY elsewhere. To me this feels like Disney called a meeting, KK's eyes blazing red with greed and potential license deals, and said "how about this?" All of a sudden it's not serial Western samurai grittiness with quirky offbeat characters, it's kid friendly heir-to-the-throne (because everyone loves kings and princes and all that) and too-good-to-be-real Ahsoka Tano.

And I'll guess the real truth will never be known, tho to me the direction change smells of overstuffed commercializing, not serving the original narrative. And suspect Favreau is an old hand at the film/TV financing game e.g. you give to get. And as Gallery 2 said, the Volume is even bigger now.

But I do get where someone like Sassafras is coming from. If someone was enjoying the limited and more personal scope of the loner gunslinger with a baby to deliver to safety, then getting full-blown live-action Rebels now would be a letdown.

You're right that there's no way to know for sure what the long-range plans were, but it's not like Favreau didn't go on record several times in 2019 describing how isolated the show would be from other SW storylines. Making this more of a Rebels sequel going forward wouldn't exactly jibe with that premise, imo.

Thank you. And I think there's a real danger of destroying what made the show notable in the first place.