Hank Azaria On 'Brockmire' And Why He No Longer Performs Apu On 'The Simpsons'
DAVIES: Well, Hank Azaria, welcome to FRESH AIR. It's good to have you back. Let's start with a clip, the scene that kicked off the series "Brockmire." And I'll just kind of set it up for the audience. I mean, you're a successful big-league baseball announcer. And you always end your broadcasts by referring to your beloved wife Lucy - saying, Lucy, get supper on the stove because this ballgame is over.
AZARIA: (As Jim Brockmire) I had some time at the ballpark this afternoon to reflect upon this wonderful anniversary, as Ibanes (ph) slashes one foul to the right side. And I decided to go on home and surprise my wife Lucy with some gardenias. They're her favorite flower. Please imagine my surprise when I opened my front door to find about a half-dozen naked folks sprawled out in my living room engaged in what can only be described as a desperate and a hungry kind of lovemaking. And right in the center of it all was my - my wife Lucy. She was wearing a [expletive], and she was [expletive] our neighbor Bob Greenwald.
AZARIA: We started the series in 2017. So this was going back to 2007, when what you just heard happened. At a press conference, he's supposed to apologize, but he ends up - he's pretty much having a nervous breakdown, and he strips off his shirt. And, you know, baseball throws him out. And he just loses - he just gets lost for about a decade, 10 years. Goes off into the world drinking and drugging and sexing.....You know, he had been completely faithful and in love with his wife, which is, you know, what really - and just had a vision of her as this pure being; turns out she's this tremendously active sex addict and had been doing - having all kinds of crazy sex behind his back their whole marriage. And he kinds of turns into a crazy libertine in response, an alcoholic. And goes off - you know, calling cockfights in Manila, is where he ends up. But he called, like, a Lithuanian wife-carrying competition, which is a real thing, by the way.
.... And all kind - and then misses baseball, gets a call from a very small-time, bottom-of-the-barrel minor-league owner, baseball team owner played by Amanda Peet, named Julia James, who wants him to come and call baseball games for them back in Morristown, Penn., which is a fracking town. And the name of the team is the Morristown Frackers, and that's probably the classiest thing about the team..... And that's where Season 1 begins, really, is his journey trying to make it back to the big leagues, starting at the very bottom of the barrel.
AZARIA: And I got fascinated with this as a kid. Like, why is this the generic voice of announcers? And I started to wonder, do they always talk like this, even in their private lives? Do they come home and say, hi, honey, what is for dinner? My goodness, I am looking forward to a spirited lovemaking session later..... We absolutely worried about that. We wondered if it was really just a sketch and not something that could sustain the load-bearing - you know, the emotional load-bearing of making him just be a real person, let alone a real person that, like you said, goes to very dark places - alcoholic - truly alcoholic, drug-addicted places, where he hits a bottom and ruins people's lives and - you know, of course, in a hilarious way, Dave, many times. But no, truly, right? You've seen it.
.....But Joel saw the man's alcoholism coming to the fore and how he was - how he kind of represented baseball. And baseball kind of represented what was kind of aging and out of touch in our society, as Brockmire now is as he's been sort of exiled and trying to find his way back..... Yeah. Listen; I'm - I've been sober 13 years, and I've been in the recovery community for even longer. I first went into the Al-Anon program 10 years - 20 years ago, which is for, like, the families and loved ones of alcoholics. So I have a long history of dealing with drugs and alcoholism in others and in myself, yet, ironically, Dave, I did not mean for this series to go there. That was, again, all Joel Church-Cooper kind of seeing in this. I think I had unconsciously created quite an alcoholic character, but I didn't realize it....
AZARIA: I probably do 30 to 40 running characters that appear in the show at any given time. One of my favorites is Comic Book Guy. He is based on a fellow that lived next door to me freshman year of college who talked like this. Snake, the sort of convict dude, is kind of a combination between Jeff Spicoli from "Fast Times At Ridgemont High" and another dude I went to college with (laughter).
DAVIES: You know, on "The Simpsons," you're no longer doing the voice of Apu, the guy who owned the Kwik-E-Mart. And this followed a protest campaign of sorts. There were questions raised about the fact that - you know, that you, as a white actor, were portraying this Indian stereotype at a time when there weren't a lot of well-known Indian characters in American culture. And the comedian Hari Kondabolu raised this issue and then made a documentary about it. You want to just share your thinking about how - share with us how your thinking has evolved on this?
AZARIA: Yeah, sure. I had been doing that voice for about 25, 27 years before I really heard anybody express upset with it. And one of the first things that happened was that comedian Hari Kondabolu actually tweeted at me a link to a performance he did on a late-night comedy show where he did a routine about how much he resented the voice of Apu and the character of Apu or things about it, anyway. And he said it sounded like - the voice sounded like a white guy doing an impression of another white guy who was making fun of his father. And, you know, that was really kind of the first I'd heard of that kind of upset and bristling over the role.
And then not long after that, I got reached out to by a reporter, a writer named Mallika Rao, who was doing an article for the Huffington Post. And we sort of - I talked to her about it, and we did a little bit of a deeper dive. And it - that's what really started me thinking because with Hari, it sort of felt like comedian to comedian. And my first reaction - and not so much, you know, person to person or - not that I wasn't taking it seriously, but I kind of got pretty defensive and bristled, and I looked at it from much more of a comedy perspective - like, you know, we make fun everybody at "The Simpsons" and, you know, where does this kind of thing end if you're going to, you know, have me not do the voice of this character? And I got pretty defensive about it.
And then over time, as I realized the criticism wasn't just Hari or a comedy routine but was really shared by many people in the Indian community in this country and the South Asian community, I started taking a look at it. And what I realized was, over time, after a lot of soul-searching and doing workshops and reading and talking to people, was that I had a blind spot or two when it came to this character, I think as evidenced - the best way I can express it is, I based the voice of Apu - I was imitating a lot of convenience store clerks that I heard, but it was also based on a Peter Sellers voice. Peter Sellers did a movie called "The Party."....I think it was in 1966 - where he played an Indian actor. And he's doing a pretty thick Indian accent in brownface. To me, you know, there I am - I saw this movie, and I'm a teenager, OK? I'm an aspiring mimic and comedic voice actor. And to me, there was - and I worshipped Peter Sellers. I thought he was a genius and hilarious. And to me, I didn't distinguish between his, you know, silly French Detective Clouseau accent from "The Pink Panther" movies or his weird German Dr. Strangelove accent in "Dr. Strangelove." So I mean, that's a blind spot. That's in the great show business tradition of, we make fun of everybody, and everybody's fair game, and that's fair enough.....But the character had unintended consequences for people - kids growing up in this country, Indian and South Asian kids growing up in this country had to live with that character and be called Apu in ways they didn't appreciate. And that was a lot of my journey with that character, and it took some years to figure it out, for me.