The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Comic and Un-aired Spoilers unwelcome!)

[devilof76]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Shane is arguably the only member of the group fit to survive in this new world. Everybody else is still trying to grasp onto a world that is now lost. To quote Batman Forever: "Normal rules of right and wrong no longer apply."

I'd argue that they all have what it takes in various degrees. (Well, not Carol.) They also all have what it takes to get themselves killed. Shane may be developing a healthy ruthlessness, but Rick is better at planning quickly and intelligently. Neither of them are flawless in regard to their qualities, but one will get you further than the other.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

From what I understand

Spoiler

he dies an unforgiveable b@st@rd in the comic

so I wonder will the same eventually be true in the TV show or will they make him an Anakin Skywalker figure (albeit better written).

Spoiler

Pretty much. In the comic Lori spits on his grave and calls him a "bastard".

 

[ironwez20]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

edit nevermind

 

[CelticPredator]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Shane is arguably the only member of the group fit to survive in this new world. Everybody else is still trying to grasp onto a world that is now lost. To quote Batman Forever: "Normal rules of right and wrong no longer apply."

Sure. But honestly, we'd all try to keep our humanity as long as we can.

Which is why Glenn got laid, which is why Rick didn't let Lori, let Carl die.

When we lose our humanity, and become like Shane, we're not too much different then the Zombies.

But at the same time, we might not last as long.

I can't, and won't justify Shane's actions. He's a pretty ____ed up human being. Even the best survivalist, Darryl, isn't that ____ed in the head. But that's why I like those two characters (Yes, Shane is now awesome in my book! ), they're two sides of the same coin.

Just mah view.

 

[CelticPredator]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Did my comment get deleted ? Anyway does anybody know if the wife is pregnant with somone elses kid? I dont remeber them having an affair.

Did you even watch the first season????

 

[Mister Ski]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Shane's character and actions have proven to be a great discussion point for all of us because it is such a polarizing moment. What is so fascinating about this show is that you have these survivors who are continually faced with unimaginable decisions to make and the consequences of those actions cause some of them to lose a little more of their humanity and themselves along the way until nothing is left of the person they were and they are a shell of their former self. The zombies seem to represent the physical "Walking Dead" while the survivors seem to represent the mental aspect of the "Walking Dead."

Whoa, after the debatable "insight", I'm off to drop a deuce.

 

[devilof76]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Honestly, that all depends where you land on Shane's totem poll. He'd die for Lori, Carl and as has already been proven, Rick. Probably the rest of the OG crew too. Otis was a newb who meant nothing and was essentially responsible for putting them in that situation. Don't lose sight of that.

I don't know how responsible Otis was. A better hunter might have been cautious enough not to shoot another man in the woods, but it's not like Carl was wearing orange. He was for all practical purposes, invisible.

And I am not convinced that in the bottom of the ninth, Rick would be safe either.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Sure. But honestly, we'd all try to keep our humanity as long as we can.

Which is why Glenn got laid, which is why Rick didn't let Lori, let Carl die.

When we lose our humanity, and become like Shane, we're not too much different then the Zombies.

But at the same time, we might not last as long.

I can't, and won't justify Shane's actions. He's a pretty ____ed up human being. Even the best survivalist, Darryl, isn't that ____ed in the head. But that's why I like those two characters (Yes, Shane is now awesome in my book! ), they're two sides of the same coin.

Just mah view.

Without Shane, neither Rick nor Lori would've had that decision to make.

People seem to think that "humanity" =/= survival. While everybody needs to function as a whole, they also need someone to do the dirty work. If I were to relate Shane to today's world, I'd relate him to black ops. They do the jobs that need to get done, that nobody else wants to do. And whether people feel it's right or wrong, the world is a better place for it.

I don't know how responsible Otis was. A better hunter might have been cautious enough not to shoot another man in the woods, but it's not like Carl was wearing orange. He was for all practical purposes, invisible.

And I am not convinced that in the bottom of the ninth, Rick would be safe either.

9th inning's come and gone without a hitch. Shane has had the opportunity to off Rick on several occasions. If it was gonna happen, it would've happened already.

 

[CelticPredator]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

NICE!

Anyway, yeah, the show is finally getting into the territory I wanted it too. Realistic human actions.

And just because I hate what Shane did, doesn't mean I didn't find it incredibly realistic. I could see someone doing that.

 

[CelticPredator]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Without Shane, neither Rick nor Lori would've had that decision to make.

People seem to think that "humanity" =/= survival. While everybody needs to function as a whole, they also need someone to do the dirty work. If I were to relate Shane to today's world, I'd relate him to black ops. They do the jobs that need to get done, that nobody else wants to do. And whether people feel it's right or wrong, the world is a better place for it.

Oh I agree. I disagree with it, but I'm not saying it's not real.

But I do think most of us would still like to keep that shred of humanity. I personally wouldn't do something like that. Might not survive because of it. But that's on me.

 

[Darth_Fatso]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Voorhees has mad skills.

I understand that Shane was in a tight spot, and that their world has changed to the point where sacrificing others for your own sake is a tempting prospect. Death is laughing up their asses and most will do anything to not be a punchline. That said, i think certain options will be open to people who are looking for them. What Shane saw as the way out in the situation he was in would not necessarily be what someone like Rick would have seen. Shooting Otis would have been on Rick's list, but I don't think it would have been as close to the top, and if what Shane did says anything it's that if anyone in the group is not the person you want covering your back, that person is Shane.



Addressed in my second sentence of the post you quoted.

In a situation like that though when you are operating on a broken leg, worried about the survival of a loved one as well as your own you probably don't have much time to think things through. Your most likely saying to yourself "how do I get out of here alive?" and do the first thing that comes to mind even if it is a horrible act.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Oh I agree. I disagree with it, but I'm not saying it's not real.

But I do think most of us would still like to keep that shred of humanity. I personally wouldn't do something like that. Might not survive because of it. But that's on me.

Humanity's subjective. If I were Shane, seeing Carl pull through and live to fight another day would've justified Otis' death completely. Carl is the future of humanity. Otis was just a clot in the artery.

A better way to look at it is if Otis would've sacrificed himself, the outcome wouldn't have been any different. Otis knew he was slowing everything down and it was his fault they were there in the first place. Isn't it a bit selfish to expect both Carl and Shane to die because he enjoyed food a little too much?

 

[CelticPredator]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

One way to see it.

But Otis DID save his life. Which is why I found it such a powerful scene.

Had he not...well, yeah.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

One way to see it.

But Otis DID save his life. Which is why I found it such a powerful scene.

Had he not...well, yeah.

And vice versa. If Shane hadn't been a decoy at the window, shot the front door out and given them a means of escape from the front of the school, etc, Otis would've been lunch a LOT earlier.

 

[devilof76]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

9th inning's come and gone without a hitch. Shane has had the opportunity to off Rick on several occasions. If it was gonna happen, it would've happened already.

Not many will pull the trigger the first time it crosses their mind, and not everyone gets as far as putting the other man in their sights. If Shane decides he's going to be the winner, he will pursue it by hook or crook. He has already justified cold-blooded murder once and it will be easier the next time. As things stand now, Rick is not his enemy. How long that will last is anyone's guess.

I'm not saying that Shane's actions in and of themselves are wrong. I just don't think he has his contexts quite square and he doesn't appear to be evolving into a person who will be able to live with his actions. One gambit has already blown up in his face to the point where he was prepared to disappear without a word. Saving Carl at the cost of murder when Lori is about to give a whole new breed of cold shoulder doesn't strike me as something he's going to accept.

 

[a-dev]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

2 more points about the Shane shooting Otis thing:

Shane did initially save Otis's life inside the school building. He could have just let the zombies claim Otis right then and there, as they very nearly did, and ran for it himself while they were distracted. At that point he hadn't even ___ked up his leg. He could have done it. So I don't think he ultimately did it out of anything other than desperation.

but

why didn't he just shoot Otis in the head and kill him outright? Surely the zombies would have been just as happy with a freshly dead person as they would a kicking and screaming one. Not like they eat people for sadistic kicks to hear their pain.

 

[Darth_Fatso]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Oh I agree. I disagree with it, but I'm not saying it's not real.

But I do think most of us would still like to keep that shred of humanity. I personally wouldn't do something like that. Might not survive because of it. But that's on me.

It's strange, when I was younger I always told myself I'd put others first including strangers. I would love to tell you I would never do what Shane did but the sad fact is I can see myself doing that. I hope I never am put into that situation and if by some chance I am I hope I'd have the courage not to sacrifice another person for my own survival but I can't honestly say for certain I wouldn't have done the same. When your panicked and faced with death, even the best among us can be driven to do bad things. That being said the guilt I'd most likely feel after words would be unbareable.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

but

why didn't he just shoot Otis in the head and kill him outright? Surely the zombies would have been just as happy with a freshly dead person as they would a kicking and screaming one. Not like they eat people for sadistic kicks to hear their pain.

It's already been discussed pages ago. Otis needed to be kicking and screaming to be enough of a distraction for ALL the pursuing zombies to stop for dinner vs. chase Shane back to the truck.

Not many will pull the trigger the first time it crosses their mind, and not everyone gets as far as putting the other man in their sights. If Shane decides he's going to be the winner, he will pursue it by hook or crook. He has already justified cold-blooded murder once and it will be easier the next time. As things stand now, Rick is not his enemy. How long that will last is anyone's guess.

I'm not saying that Shane's actions in and of themself are wrong. I just don't think he has his contexts quite square and he doesn't appear to be evolving into a person who will be able to live with his actions. One gambit has already blown up in his face to the point where he was prepared to disappear without a word. Saving Carl at the cost of murder when Lori is about to give a whole new breed of cold shoulder doesn't strike me as something he's going to accept.

You're still ignoring the fact that Shane knew Otis for all of about an hour. I think his loyalty has a LOT to do with it. And he's loyal to the point of making rash decisions, some of which have been mistakes.

 

[barryo]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

shane shall be known as shane costanza from now on..........
[ame="https://youtu.be/ueh_1PeJhaQ"]https://youtu.be/ueh_1PeJhaQ[/ame]

 

[a-dev]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

It's already been discussed pages ago. Otis needed to be kicking and screaming to be enough of a distraction for ALL the pursuing zombies to stop for dinner vs. chase Shane back to the truck.

Ah, makes sense. But in the moment would Shane have had sufficient presence of mind to think of that?