The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Comic and Un-aired Spoilers unwelcome!)

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

It wasn't an affair. Women who find comfort in another man's affection after their husband dies are not cheating. It's even clear that she was still fully emotionally committed to him during her time with Shane.

It wasn't an affair. But two of the three people he holds most dear to him have been blatantly lying to him since he joined the group. Additionally, Lori's still lying to him by letting him believe the baby is without a doubt his. And in a world like the one they live in, all you have is trust.

 

[devilof76]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

She just owned up to her biggest secret, and she's still lying to herself that the baby is Rick's.

When has she had a chance to drop a bombshell like that with him carrying the weight of the whole group on his shoulders? As it is, she's still getting used to the fact that he's alive and with her again. It's been literally days since he even came back.

But, the instant he gave her an indication that he was ready to hear, she gave it up.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

She just owned up to her biggest secret, and she's still lying to herself that the baby is Rick's.

And? It doesn't erase the fact that she's been lying to him this whole time. If I were in Rick's shoes, I'd be wondering what else she's lied about and there certainly wouldn't be any trust there, for either of them.

 

[devilof76]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Go back and read my edit.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Go back and read my edit.

Nah, that's BS.

There've been plenty of occasions for her to bring it up. Like, I dunno, his first night back at camp? It was serious enough to bring it up immediately. Then there was the drive to the CDC, the CDC itself, the drive from the CDC, any number of the nights at Hershall's.

This doesn't even account for all the opportunities Shane's had with all the 1-on-1 time he's spent with Rick, though Lori ordered him not to say anything.

 

[devilof76]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Shane was happy to keep his mouth shut because his best chance to get her back was for Rick to stay clueless.

Lori wanted him to keep a lid on it because she wanted to tell him herself. You don't think she was completely unprepared for this situation? She has not worked through any of the implications of what she had done, or of what Rick might do when he found out. She wasn't going to do anything to jeopardize having him back, or to undermine his confidence while he was taking on so much risk.

She was not being open, but her fear of being open was rationally founded. I don't think she played it dishonestly. Once her family was back together against all odds, she was going to tread lightly to work her way to full disclosure. It was not as important as keeping things from blowing up any further. Now that they're at someplace relatively secure (which the CDC was not) she can take the chance.

(Of course, she has no idea of everything that's about to hit the fan.)

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Shane was happy to keep his mouth shut because his best chance to get her back was for Rick to stay clueless.

Lori wanted him to keep a lid on it because she wanted to tell him herself. You don't think she was completely unprepared for this situation? She has not worked through any of the implications of what she had done, or of what Rick might do when he found out. She wasn't going to do anything to jeopardize having him back, or to undermine his confidence while he was taking on so much risk.

She was not being open, but her fear of being open was rationally founded. I don't think she played it dishonestly. Once her family was back together against all odds, she was going to tread lightly to work her way to full disclosure. It was not as important as keeping things from blowing up any further. Now that they're at someplace relatively secure (which the CDC was not) she can take the chance.

(Of course, she has no idea of everything that's about to hit the fan.)

Honestly, I think Lori thought and hoped the whole situation would just go away. I don't think it had anything to do with her telling Rick herself as she had many occasions to do just that and didn't. Unfortunately, the sabo in the tage was her getting pregnant. One has to wonder if her wanting to abort the child was more a step toward keeping the thing with Shane hush hush moreso than really bringing up a child in their zombie apocalypse. If she had best intentions, she would've sat Rick down the night he came back and gone into full-disclosure mode. She didn't. And neither did Shane, on her order. And in the process, she's been completely dishonest and created a monster.

 

[Mister Ski]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Honestly, I think Lori thought and hoped the whole situation would just go away. I don't think it had anything to do with her telling Rick herself as she had many occasions to do just that and didn't. Unfortunately, the sabo in the tage was her getting pregnant. One has to wonder if her wanting to abort the child was more a step toward keeping the thing with Shane hush hush moreso than really bringing up a child in their zombie apocalypse. If she had best intentions, she would've sat Rick down the night he came back and gone into full-disclosure mode. She didn't. And neither did Shane, on her order. And in the process, she's been completely dishonest and created a monster.

What you say makes perfect sense to me. I'm not out to crucify Lori for her actions, but at the same time I'm not about to make her intentions altruistic and good either. She didn't even actually say the words about her and Shane. She turned on the waterworks and Rick said the words for her and she nodded. That should have p!ssed him off even more that she couldn't say the words and own up to her actions. I am all for Rick forgiving her because it was due to extremely extenuating circumstances with her thinking he was dead, but it just did not ring true to me that he would do it all at once without even taking a moment to think it over. And he was made at the abortion because he went stomping out to the field to find her and ask her if there is anything they need to talk about and threw the pills on the ground. If he is so level headed and nice, then he must have been downright p!ssed to go marching out there and raise his voice to her like he did.

Ah, I love all the discussions and debates this show sparks. Some big, some small, but interesting discussions none the less. Man, I am going to miss this show over the next three months.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

 

[Maglor]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

What does it mean that I'm starting to like Shane?

Because that was up stream from where they found the doll.

I gotta say, that as someone that has been very happy with the entire season so far, and has thought every episode moved along at the right pace (slow, but no different from last year), last night's ep was a disappointment. With all the secrets coming to a head, I figured we'd get a bit more out of it.

I will say I'm loving where they are taking Andrea, as well as Glenn and Maggie. I've been tired of Lori for awhile, but last night was the final straw. I get it, you aren't happy, but somehow or another Andrea is making a go of it, and has far less depending on her than you do. Get it together. I'm so tired of her whining about bringing up a kid or bringing another kid into the world! Gee, you can't have your morning latte and watch Oprah any more? Get over it. 99% of the history of humanity has been about people struggling just to survive - they managed to pull it together, there's no excuse you can't. I understand her having that conversation once, but after about the third time it starts getting old.

Agree with every word.

Andrea's Ball grab of Shane was epic.

Guess she knows how to drive stick.

 

[Maglor]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Spoiler

Best parts of this last episode...Shane's eyebrow arch, post junk-grab, and Dale's confrontation of Shane. The look on Dale's face the whole time was ____ing awesome.

"If I'll shoot my best friend, what do you think ill do to an old man I don't even like."

Really hope Dale isn't a casualty of Shane's transformation, though

I don't mean to pick on MarfMaster here ('cos many do this), but can we please leave off the spoiler tags when it's conversation about an episode that has aired? It makes it harder to figure out when it's safe to open them.



Again, can we just use the spoiler tags for:

1) Comic book related stuff.
2) Spoilers about episodes that have not aired yet.







By the way Marf:

 

[devilof76]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Honestly, I think Lori thought and hoped the whole situation would just go away.

I'm sure she did. There's nothing enviable about being in the position of the person who has to tell the most important person in their group something that could potentially unhinge him.

I don't think it had anything to do with her telling Rick herself as she had many occasions to do just that and didn't.

But there had never been an occaision where coming clean was more important than Rick having his head clear. And in those few moments where things were calm, you don't think they deserved to enjoy those moments of peace?

Unfortunately, the sabo in the tage was her getting pregnant. One has to wonder if her wanting to abort the child was more a step toward keeping the thing with Shane hush hush moreso than really bringing up a child in their zombie apocalypse.

We can wonder, but until there's an indication to the contrary, all you have to go on are the character's own words. I'm sure she's wondering too, and I'm sure every synapse in her brain is feeding her information to help shield her from that possibility. Not only is the prospect of having a baby in the hell they're in terrifying, but the chance that it's Shane's brings the horror to Lovecraftian proportions.

If she had best intentions, she would've sat Rick down the night he came back and gone into full-disclosure mode.

That's the thing with best intentions. You can still have them and not do anything about them. But the best intentions are not always so short range and simple as being able to spit out a devastating truth whenever the person carrying it feels like it. I think that the smartest thing to do was to hold onto it until it was absolutely necessary, or atleast convenient in terms of their safety. I don't think it would have done anybody any good to blow the lid off that the first time she had his ear to herself. There were more important things to deal with.

She didn't. And neither did Shane, on her order. And in the process, she's been completely dishonest and created a monster.

Shane created his own monster. It was his responsibility to shut himself down the minute Rick returned. She cut him off with no exceptions. Rick knowing wouldn't have done anything but make his shame public, and his resentment that much more acute.

Rick is rational enough to not be out of his mind over the revelation. Personally, I think the timing was just about perfect.

She's in a bad position. I'm not going to hold her to standards that apply to normal life.

 

[Maglor]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

I thought Rick's non-reaction to Lori's affair with Shane was just that - a complete non-reaction. I don't know many men who would take that kind of news and justify it FOR Lori. She didn't even have to say anything. Just nod her head and turn the waterworks on.

Yeah, Rick is a forgiving guy, but let him get mad for awhile before going into forgive mode.

The scene just seemed off to me because he was all p!ssed off about the potential abortion, but then lost all his anger for the affair confession.

You should watch the "Inside the Walking Dead" episodes. The actors explain their characters motivations/reasons for their behavior.


Surprised I don't see more people mentioning that. I watch every "Inside" right after the actual show episode. Are they not widely available? I get them as part of the season I bought from iTunes.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Shane created his own monster. It was his responsibility to shut himself down the minute Rick returned. She cut him off with no exceptions. Rick knowing wouldn't have done anything but make his shame public, and his resentment that much more acute.

I don't disagree that Shane's undoing is his own, but it doesn't help to have some _____ playing mindgames with him, and that's essentially what Lori's done. She cut him off from what he considered his "family" and pushed him away, told him to have nothing to do with them. Then she _____ed at Shane when he was cold to Carl. Then she was totally kosher with him leaving. Then basically didn't even object when he offered to get the respirator for Carl. Then she asked him to stay when he brought it back. If you've ever totally been sprung on someone, it's those types of mindgames that have you kicking the ____ out of people every chance you get and punching holes in the walls to deal with it.

But it wasn't really news to him. He even said "of course I knew".


At that point it was about airing everything out so they could move on.

In the latest episode of "Inside The Walking Dead" "Lori" says: "just the act of giving voice to something dispels its power." You can totally see that is what happens in that scene. Lori and Rick have had this thing hanging over their relationship. Both "knew" about it and once it was put into words it could be let go. I actually really liked the end.

I'll put and end to the weak vajayjay talk about it being in the open and "forgiven."

The Hollywood Reporter: Rick now knows about Shane and Lori. Lori and Rick tell Shane as much?

Robert Kirkman: It’s a big revelation that Rick now knows about the affair. Whether or not he’s going to be confronting Shane immediately or whether that’s going to continue to be bubbling below the surface, we’ll find out.

https://thewalkingdeadcomic.wordpre...rkman-on-rick-lori-shane-and-andreas-secrets/

So as you can see, it's not "over." I'm beginning to think that what Plasmid said about Andrew not being able to hide his accent when yelling might be a contributing factor to the lame reveal.

 

[Maglor]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Plus add to it the fact that both her and Shane, his beloved wife and his best friend since childhood, have essentially been lying to him since he's been with the group. There was plenty to be mad at, or at least frustrated over. Just blowing it all off was poor, and inaccurate character writing.

But it wasn't really news to him. He even said "of course I knew".


At that point it was about airing everything out so they could move on.

In the latest episode of "Inside The Walking Dead" "Lori" says: "just the act of giving voice to something dispels its power." You can totally see that is what happens in that scene. Lori and Rick have had this thing hanging over their relationship. Both "knew" about it and once it was put into words it could be let go. I actually really liked the end.

 

[Maglor]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

He flew off the handle when he thought about Lori having the abortion, but was cool as a cucumber when she admitted to him she boinked Shane. I think a "normal" guy would react the opposite in both situations. Or at least react the same at both things: Abortion? Outrage! Affair? Outrage! ~OR~ Abortion? Acceptance. Affair? Acceptance.

He had no idea she was pregnant so outrage is to be expected.

He had an idea she had a thing with Shane so...


[see above post.]

 

[Maglor]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Rick didn't freak out because he already suspected something went down. That, and he understood. She didn't go behind his back; she thought he was dead. Plus, what pixletwin said. Not every guy is at the mercy of his own testosterone.

Lastly, he freaked out about the abortion because it was a secret she had been actively hiding when she attacked him for not being completely open with her.

Guess you guys were on top of that already.



Here's the "Inside" I was talking about:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdCK_MakvQo[/ame]

 

[Maglor]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Disagree. Again, he might have known about the affair but the realization she was pregnant, followed by the admission, would've put in question who the baby belongs to (and at this point, realistically, it could still be either). Add to that, again, this dude has been betrayed since the get-go by his wife and childhood friend. All in all, it was lazy writing and a huge disservice to the character. They could've just as easily had Rick say, "This is a lot to take in all at once. We'll deal with this later. Right now there are more important things to deal with." which would've fallen in perfectly with his character.

Zero impact.


I think the ending was way more powerful as it is.

 

[Maglor]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

It wasn't an affair. Women who find comfort in another man's affection after their husband dies are not cheating. It's even clear that she was still fully emotionally committed to him during her time with Shane.



He wasn't angry about the abortion. He was angry that she had held him to a double standard. After they had calmed down, he asked if she had anything else to tell him, and she answered honestly. At that point, he was ready for anything, and she gave him an answer that he already suspected was true. He didn't move through any stages. He understood. He's never been a "you mine, him no take" kind of guy. I'm sure it sucked to hear it, but he's smart enough to comprehend context and not react emotionally to facts detached from the big picture.

That's Shane's m.o.



Um, 'perfect' may not exist per se, but perfectibility does (people are capable of moral improvement), and there is such a thing as a better man.

We're not interchangable emotional automatons. Most people are more complex than the stereotypes people expect, and the fact that this show has broken the 'jealous husband' mold is testament to the higher quality of the writing.

Agree with every word.




Also, when you say to someone "is there anything else I should know about?" it's implied that the person is being invited to share something in a "safe" environment. Sometimes people will even say: 'Please just tell me the truth, I promise I wont be mad.'

That is clearly what is going on here. They are opening up to each other, not attacking each other.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Zero impact.

I think the ending was way more powerful as it is.

Well, as we already know, you have bad taste, so .

Seriously though, of course the writers are gonna defend it. I don't see how it could be more powerful given that whole scene regarding the reveal was probably the most impotent handling of a major plot point I've ever seen in television. How would you act if your wife gave you the impression she nearly aborted your child, then admitted she'd been boinking your best friend since highschool? You wouldn't be bent? You wouldn't think for a second the kid could actually be his? Or would you just grow a vajayjay and say "I kinda had an idea." The truth is, with all the ____ going on, the writers really robbed that scene of any and all impact it could've had so they could hurry up and get to the cliffhanger for the next episode.

 

[devilof76]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Nam, thanks for giving me something to disagree with that means something. I can't tell you how bored sick I am of politics and entitled collectors.

I don't disagree that Shane's undoing is his own, but it doesn't help to have some _____ playing mindgames with him, and that's essentially what Lori's done. She cut him off from what he considered his "family" and pushed him away, told him to have nothing to do with them.

A family he acquired by deceit. Well intentioned deceit, but once the need for his good intentions were gone, so was his pretense for chasing Lori.

Then she _____ed at Shane when he was cold to Carl.

It wasn't Carl's fault that the relationship was over, and she's protective of her son.

Then she was totally kosher with him leaving.

She has no place to stop him.

Then basically didn't even object when he offered to get the respirator for Carl.

Who else was capable of doing it?

Then she asked him to stay when he brought it back.

Saving her son's life is grounds to forgive a lot. Gratitude is a powerful drug.

If you've ever totally been sprung on someone, it's those types of mindgames that have you kicking the ____ out of people every chance you get and punching holes in the walls to deal with it.

Thing is, we're talking about a guy who's got every piece of ass he's ever tried for. Now his best friend, who's never been a ladies' man walks in and takes back the one he wanted the most without so much as snapping his fingers. It doesn't matter what she says or does; he's going to be filtering everything through his desire for her, looking for a chance. He's acting like a spoiled brat and he's completely out of line.

I think the ending was way more powerful as it is.

I agree.