The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Comic and Un-aired Spoilers unwelcome!)

[Michael Crawford]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Shane can kill Rick even though he 'loves him like a brother', because he can already justify the need. He told Lori as much with his little speech about wishing Rick was dead when he showed up, because he 'knew' he would be eventually. He feels Rick isn't cut out for this world, so it's only a short step to a) Rick puts Lori and the baby in danger just by existing and b) Rick being dead is better off for everyone. If the ends are Lori, Carl and the baby being his, then he'll find a way to rationalize killing Rick as the means to get there.

 

[BuffyGirl]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

I didn't read the comics but have seen some spoilers (yes I couldn't resist clicking on some of the spoilers, so shame I blame myself)...

Spoiler

I know Shane dies in the comic after he blows up and gets killed by Carl. But in the movie, he seems way to important to just die off like that. Maybe I don't know the scale and magnitude of the comic, hence me thinking that Shane is more important than he is intended to be in the comics

Spoiler

Shane isn't important in the comics. Which is why he's a gonner.

 

[Michael Crawford]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Comic spoiler -

Spoiler

Shane is important in the comics - as a device to create the Carl that emerges.

Shane isn't a key character on the show. He's a key plot device. They can't quite kill him off yet, because he hasn't quite devolved as a character quite enough - he still has some degrowth to do to get him to his lowest point. Once he gets there, he'll be the antagonist for awhile, but need to get killed off to avoid redundancy. There's only so much "he's an ass, why can't they figure it out?" that you can take, unless you're a big soap opera fan.

I think the only three characters on this show right now that are relatively safe, and that's because it seems that they have the most character development to come and that the writers want to make them grow over the long haul, is Rick, Carl and Darryl. Glenn and Maggie have potential to hang in there for awhile, if for no other reason than to further develop the relationship. The rest of them? They seem like plot devices, like Shane, and could end up dead any episode depending on how that death would propel the overall story forward, and whether a new character might better serve the purpose.

 

[Mister Ski]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Dale really annoyed me in last night's episode. He acted a lot like Shane in that he made a rash decision to hide the guns from the group and leave them essentially defenseless against a potential attack from roaming walkers or if the walkers had gotten out of the barn. He seemed to be motivated to "save" or "protect" Andrea from turning into Shane. So he puts her "salvation" ahead of the rest of the group? I know he is the father figure of the group and is very insightful, but sometimes he does come across as a bit insufferable. His line to Shane about dying as the same person he was before the walkers was impractical and a bit laughable. And he has those freaky bug-eyes.

 

[Darth Waller]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

What an awesome finale!

And now the wait until February.

 

[Something Sexy]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Comic spoiler -

Spoiler

Shane is important in the comics - as a device to create the Carl that emerges.

You hit the nail on the head, very few people realize this and I am glad you pointed this out.

 

[MarfMaster]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Amazing episode. As for Rick shooting Sophia...I think part of his decision to pull the trigger was because his group had just mowed down a group of walkers that Hershell cared for by force. Then Sophia emerges, the only one of the group that Rick's people have any attachment to, and they freeze, unwilling to do to her what they had just done to all of Hershell's walkers. I saw it in part as him proving to Hershell that they weren't all full of ____.

 

[devilof76]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

I dunno. While Shane talks a big game, I don't think he has the balls to shoot Dale, yet. Not without some huge push, and I mean huge. I liken their relationship to Dock Frankenstein and Rhodes in Day of the Dead.

They have a really interesting stalemate going on. I think Shane is enjoying it, actually. He likes the power he has over Dale. Even though Dale doesn't compromise, Shane still has the upper hand.

I kinda wish they'd used the original scene with Sophia. Originally, they'd shot her coming out of the barn, without make-up, slowly walking toward the group, which was why nobody shot. In that instance, the entire group saw her as Hershall sees the walkers. Then Rick steps up and just before he pulls the trigger, she snarls at him in full prosthetics. It's always a shame when they dumb down something for the masses. If they'd gone with that ending, it would've showed more why Rick's the leader.

I can see how holding off on making that explicit by concealing her face drags out the suspense. Maybe she had a really good hiding place in there, and was just waiting for someone to take care of the zombies so she could be found. Playing to that would have squeezed every last drop out of the hope angle, which would have made the fall that much harder.

The only flaw in ending it like that is, once it's clear that she was in the barn, it's pretty clear that she's dead. The likelihood of her hiding safely in there for an extended period of time is as low as it gets. Showing her walk out from their point of view takes the fact that she's been dead this whole time and rubs everyone's noses in it until the stench is in their brain stems. The group's and the audience's. It dispenses with the illusion of hope instantaneously, without easing anyone into it.

We've been waiting for seven weeks. Suspense only serves a purpose until the story reaches it's destination. Once your there, the point is to see where you've come to. Do you skimp on the horror of this lost child shuffling towards her failed saviors for a bite? Or do you downplay it, insulating against the sensitivities of anyone who cared about her?

 

[Michael Crawford]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Dale really annoyed me in last night's episode. He acted a lot like Shane in that he made a rash decision to hide the guns from the group and leave them essentially defenseless against a potential attack from roaming walkers or if the walkers had gotten out of the barn. He seemed to be motivated to "save" or "protect" Andrea from turning into Shane. So he puts her "salvation" ahead of the rest of the group? I know he is the father figure of the group and is very insightful, but sometimes he does come across as a bit insufferable. His line to Shane about dying as the same person he was before the walkers was impractical and a bit laughable. And he has those freaky bug-eyes.

I think you're falling for the same misconception that Andrea is - Dale isn't doing all that much because of her. He was pissed at Shane for sleeping with her, but not everything is about her, she just thinks it is. He really is trying to tell her that Shane is a bad man, it's not because he has feelings for her (or at least not just because), but she won't listen because she thinks Dale has ulterior motives.

He didn't move the majority (not all, as he had a rifle, Glenn had a rifle, Rick had his gun, and Andrea had hers) because of anything to do with Andrea, he moved them because he knew that carnage at the barn was coming. Dale realized, hearing what Andrea said about Shane wanting a 'guard' on the barn and clearly not hearing that from Rick, that Shane would want to attack the barn eventually. He was trying to keep that from happening.

 

[BuffyGirl]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Comic spoiler -

Spoiler

Shane is important in the comics - as a device to create the Carl that emerges.

Spoiler

I meant in the future. Obviously for Carl he is. But after that, there's no need for him.

The twins are also huge for Carl. But they haven't even emerged yet. I hope that happens.

 

[Darth Waller]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

^^ Well said, Michael!

 

[Mister Ski]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

I think you're falling for the same misconception that Andrea is - Dale isn't doing all that much because of her. He was pissed at Shane for sleeping with her, but not everything is about her, she just thinks it is. He really is trying to tell her that Shane is a bad man, it's not because he has feelings for her (or at least not just because), but she won't listen because she thinks Dale has ulterior motives.

He didn't move the majority (not all, as he had a rifle, Glenn had a rifle, Rick had his gun, and Andrea had hers) because of anything to do with Andrea, he moved them because he knew that carnage at the barn was coming. Dale realized, hearing what Andrea said about Shane wanting a 'guard' on the barn and clearly not hearing that from Rick, that Shane would want to attack the barn eventually. He was trying to keep that from happening.

I call bull_____. There is no way he knew that was coming. If anything, his actions, expedited the barn encounter because it enraged Shane along with Herschel and Rick wrangling those two walkers. (As an aside, what was the game plan for getting those two walkers into the barn anyway? It was already full of a dozen walkers trying to get out.)

Even if he did know it was coming, then he decides on his own what to do without telling anyone? Yeah, he didn't take all the guns, but that is just semantics. It's not like he was going to go up to each of them and tell them to hand over their gun. He took all the guns he could and he would have left their defenses seriously compromised if Shane had not found him.

If he didn't do it for Andrea, then why would he do it for the walkers in the barn? It doesn't ring true to me.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

I call bull_____. There is no way he knew that was coming. If anything, his actions, expedited the barn encounter because it enraged Shane along with Herschel and Rick wrangling those two walkers. (As an aside, what was the game plan for getting those two walkers into the barn anyway? It was already full of a dozen walkers trying to get out.)

Even if he did know it was coming, then he decides on his own what to do without telling anyone? Yeah, he didn't take all the guns, but that is just semantics. It's not like he was going to go up to each of them and tell them to hand over their gun. He took all the guns he could and he would have left their defenses seriously compromised if Shane had not found him.

If he didn't do it for Andrea, then why would he do it for the walkers in the barn? It doesn't ring true to me.

I dunno. While I do think there's a huge amount of jealousy there with Andrea boinking Shane (it's not all "father figure" there), I think his intention for hiding the guns wasn't to save the zombies so much as it was to avoid a conflict with Hershall that'll send the lot of them packing.

 

[Michael Crawford]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

I call bull_____. There is no way he knew that was coming. If anything, his actions, expedited the barn encounter because it enraged Shane along with Herschel and Rick wrangling those two walkers. (As an aside, what was the game plan for getting those two walkers into the barn anyway? It was already full of a dozen walkers trying to get out.)

Even if he did know it was coming, then he decides on his own what to do without telling anyone? Yeah, he didn't take all the guns, but that is just semantics. It's not like he was going to go up to each of them and tell them to hand over their gun. He took all the guns he could and he would have left their defenses seriously compromised if Shane had not found him.

If he didn't do it for Andrea, then why would he do it for the walkers in the barn? It doesn't ring true to me.

No, it didn't expedite it. Shane decided to kill the walkers in the barn when he left Lori. When she told him there was nothing he could do, he said he didn't have to - and left to get the guns. He didn't go into the RV for any other reason. He was even manipulating Carl toward that end as he was walking toward the RV, convincing him to do what ever it would take to stay at the farm.

I have no idea why you think Dale did that for Andrea - what possible thing did that do for her? She already had her gun - it had nothing to do with her. He decided what to do after his conversation with Andrea, when she explained that Shane wanted the guard on the barn. He spent some time considering what that meant, and decided to take the guys. He didn't do that for the walkers - he did it because he knew that killing off the walkers in the barn meant the end of their time at the farm, or worse, that Shane would take the farm by force.

 

[Mister Ski]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

I dunno. While I do think there's a huge amount of jealousy there with Andrea boinking Shane (it's not all "father figure" there), I think his intention for hiding the guns wasn't to save the zombies so much as it was to avoid a conflict with Hershall that'll send the lot of them packing.

I dunno either and that's my point. Dale took a drastic action without any clear motivation. Maybe it is a combination of trying to keep the peace and keep Andrea safe? The thing is, why pressure Glenn to tell the group about the walkers in the barn at all then?

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

I dunno either and that's my point. Dale took a drastic action without any clear motivation. Maybe it is a combination of trying to keep the peace and keep Andrea safe? The thing is, why pressure Glenn to tell the group about the walkers in the barn at all then?

You missed the part where it said that Dale wanted to tell them and was going to, but Glenn insisted?

 

[Mister Ski]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

You missed the part where it said that Dale wanted to tell them and was going to, but Glenn insisted?

No, I saw that part and I thought that was Dale telling a little fib to the group. Glenn never "insisted" he tell the group. In fact, Glenn was still going back and forth at the beginning of the episode, looking at Maggie nodding "no" and Dale nodding "yes".

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

No, I saw that part and I thought that was Dale telling a little fib to the group. Glenn never "insisted" he tell the group. In fact, Glenn was still going back and forth at the beginning of the episode, looking at Maggie nodding "no" and Dale nodding "yes".

I took Dale's nod as, "You wanted to tell them, so do it. Or I will." Daryl's never been shy about that type of stuff.

 

[Mister Ski]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

I took Dale's nod as, "You wanted to tell them, so do it. Or I will." Daryl's never been shy about that type of stuff.

That all must have happened off camera then.

How could you take it that way, when Dale's explanation to the group about Glenn insisting had not occurred yet? Furthermore, then why didn't Glenn let Dale tell the group? This way he wouldn't have p!ssed off Maggie.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

That all must have happened off camera then.

How could you take it that way, when Dale's explanation to the group about Glenn insisting had not occurred yet? Furthermore, then why didn't Glenn let Dale tell the group? This way he wouldn't have p!ssed off Maggie.

Daryl's personality is what told me that, which was later confirmed. I think Glenn saw it as his responsibility since it was his discovery.