This is everything wrong with this hobby in one photo.

[Frank]

No, that was actually one big mattress before they went at it.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

I agree about the heels. I've always thought they were impractical, and ridiculous, and for a long time never understood how any self respecting woman would put up with having to wear those.

I've asked some women why they wear heels, since they are so ridiculous and uncomfortable looking, and they say it makes them taller, which they like a lot, and I can understand that. Even so, I think that the discomfort of having your weight distributed like that wouldn't be worth the illusion of added height. Just stand on your tip toes instead and exercise your calves, and you would have nicer legs, too. Standing on your tip toes ridiculous? no more than wearing high heels, I say.

It isn't for added height, exactly. They wear them to make their legs look longer and *** stick out more. Accentuates things, and makes for a more shapely-looking figure.

Always liked seeing the wife in high-heeled boots.

They're not practical. But they're nice to look at. Kinda like lingerie.

SnakeDoc

 

[Jen]

Actually, I always find the shoes that women wear in action movies or tv action shows to be stupid. They're usually in some sort of heel that you normally could barely walk in, let alone run and jump in. Female cops shows are the worst.

While we're talking about it, it always drives me nuts on the CSI shows when the females on there are always in heels or showing cleveage while they're checking out dead bodies.

CSI: Miami was the worst. Those ladies were wearing pumps while collecting evidence, rescuing people from burning buildings, etc. It always made me laugh. And that one gal always wore white pants...and they always stayed clean.

At least with most action movies, the women are wearing boots with square heels which isn't quite as ridiculous as pumps...well except for Catwoman.

 

[buzzybean]

And wow, I am glad to see ink has a mighty champion since he is too cowardly to do much more than sneer at me and run away. Perhaps you can go to the Lance Armstrong thread and address ink's mysterious silence now that Armstrong has confessed to the cheating.

BB

 

[The Ween]

YUCK!

 

[The Ween]

It isn't for added height, exactly. They wear them to make their legs look longer and *** stick out more. Accentuates things, and makes for a more shapely-looking figure.

Always liked seeing the wife in high-heeled boots.

They're not practical. But they're nice to look at. Kinda like lingerie.

SnakeDoc

Some guys like to have sex with thier women while they wear them. Butt naked but still wearing the heels. Whatever trips your trigger I guess. Alot of men also have foot fetishes.

 

[Kamandi]

In defense of Star Puffs:

As a father of two pre-teen girls I have avoided buying more than one statue out of concern for how it would be viewed. Darth Talon PF is crazy cool and sexy, and not at all realistic in terms of what anybody would wear in combat. It would also be damn hard to explain to a nine year old girl and make me feel a bit pervy trying to justify.

Knowing I have young girls hopefully you understand I'm sympathetic to much of what you've said. I want my daughters to have a strong sense of self-ownership and never to be anyone's fools. I don't want them trolled on by crude boys and hopefully they are sophisticated enough by that time to see though their intentions. I will raise them to expect a standard of behavior from boys and men. Most of all they will know to never put up with abuse and being made to feel like their views are "less than".

Regarding the original post in this thread - Most things that are sexy are also capable of being accidentally hysterically funny. Four words to prove my point: Marky Mark Underwear Model. But this board is mostly adults who understand that women in armored bikinis are not realistic. Neither are capes and underwear over tights. So let's lighten up a bit.

Anyhow, what I'm really saying if Star Puff is out there reading this I hope you understand that I enjoy a lively debate. I hope you'll accept this as my last word on the matter and an offer of good will. I notice you haven't been here today. I'd hate to see you quit the site over this thread and I hope others feel the same.

 

[Star Puffs]

I posted this last week in the Avengers thread. I thought at the time it was a cool photoshop.

It is cool. We cannot see her heels, of course, but she is otherwise doing everything I said she would, right?

Her head, forearms and thighs are armoured properly. There is no way you could have loose hair in such an outfit and turn your head. And she would not be interested in anyone here.

The parted lips are simply an observation by the artist at Hot Toys that Scarlett Johansson is photographed with her lips like this quite often.

It was out of character for Black Widow when she is in her SHIELD uniform. I never bought the figure in the end because the expression pissed me off. Notice they went with a proper one for the Avengers version. Notice too the difference between Joss Whedon (known for strong female characters) and the guy who directed Iron Man 2:

https://www.fanboynewsnetwork.com/misogyny-in-geek-culture/

I was blown away at how many women ARE in this hobby. I think it's f'king awesome. Most of them don't seem to have the same chip on their shoulder about sexy heroes.

Well I hate to break it to you but this site has very few active female members. If we are even 5% of the "active" membership I would be shocked. And we are definitely a higher percentage of those who follow comicbooks, scifi, etc. meaning our share here is lower (possibly signaling off-putting elements). I have never successfully got a single woman I know in real life, even those who own 1:6 figures or statues, to join this site.

The women who have the least problem with it naturally fit in the best.

And maybe I just feel more comfortable expressing myself. I learned in grad school that mean mousy gets you nowhere. Better to have a few people think you are a 'shrill harpy' than not speak up. Someone will ALWAYS have a problem with a woman speaking her mind. ALWAYS.

Google Anna Sarkeesian and the personal attacks she ignited my merely mentioning her intent to discuss misogynistic tropes in video games. That is the world your two girls face.

There are depictions of sexy men in film....

I already told you this is about how men depict women, not how women depict ourselves, or how men depict men (all the films you mention being directed and written by men to the best of my knowledge).

The key difference is that men are not sexualized in order to remove their power, women are. Thor without a shirt is no less Thor.

Yet if you pop ScarJo in some normal Iron Man armour, not only can she trash an army (or Thor), but she will still say 'no' to 99.999999% of men. Making her armour somehow weak and deficient relative to the male Iron Man, Tony Stark, keeps her in her a 'proper' submissive, subordinate place to the male 'hero'. She is not a threat to his status.

If you cannot see how that relates to subordinating racist art of the past, then fine, but the intent of the figure I criticise is not to empower or celebrate women. It is to have a subordinate an objectified fetish object, who cannot say 'no'.

Seriously that Darth Talon statue you mentioned is actually less egregious. Despite her gravity-defying breasts (use of the Force?) she still conveyed an 'I will kill you and dance on your grave' mentality. But I admire your thoughtfulness vis-à-vis your daughters.

***

Anyway I appreciate your ability to respond without needless personal attacks. I just marvel at the Grosby, LeJuan sort, smart guys who can write coherently, but who tell me how worthless and self-important my opinions are in one breath, while feigning in the very next breath a desire to hear my response to a given argument.

But don't worry I am not going to quit the site, because I enjoy sewing 1:6 clothes and making custom figures.

 

[devilof76]

The Grosby and Lejuan sorts are not looking for your opinion. They're looking (in vain) for objectivity.

 

[CriterionCollector]

While I in no way am comparing Star Puffs' criticism to this(I agree with most of what she's saying) this whole ordeal reminds me of a story I heard in film class where the class watched Jaws and a female student wrote an analysis saying that Jaws is an allegory about male fears of being dominated by females. The shark standing in for the vadge.

 

[devilof76]

And because she felt it was so, it must have been. Logic is a tool of male domination, don'tcha know...

 

[Star Puffs]

The Grosby and Lejuan sorts are not looking for your opinion. They're looking (in vain) for objectivity.

Even if I were 'objective' to their satisfaction it would still me manifest as my opinion. Your dichotomy is a false one, to make simple disagreement with my position sound like some broader failing on my part. Nice try though.

In any case I offered a polemic because I feel strongly about the subject. I have no obligation to tailor my writing to their expectations, anymore than you, a man with strong opinions, are likely to write in a manner I find objective. And again, their insults and prevarications belie your claim of lofty interest in objective debate.

 

[Solidus]

This thread has just got very interesting!

Only Arnold is capable of lying in a bed with another dude and not looking completely gay

 

[CriterionCollector]

And because she felt it was so, it must have been. Logic is a tool of male domination, don'tcha know...

Oh stop it! We have like 5% female participation on this forum and why is that? Because a lot of women see insane images of dolls in fetishized Iron Man armor and total label collectors as weird, horny fanboy virgins.

 

[devilof76]

Yeah, that's why. You aced women's studies too, huh?

Even if I were 'objective' to their satisfaction it would still me manifest as my opinion. Your dichotomy is a false one, to make simple disagreement with my position sound like some broader failing on my part. Nice try though.

In any case I offered a polemic because I feel strongly about the subject. I have no obligation to tailor my writing to their expectations, anymore than you, a man with strong opinions, are likely to write in a manner I find objective. And again, their insults and prevarications belie your claim of lofty interest in objective debate.

Again with the evasions.

There is no 'objective, to their satisfaction'. There's rational and irrational. Stating an opinion with no intention of supporting it with any kind of reasoned defense is irrational on its face. Your position has not earned the right to be taken seriously, as you've smeared, then dismissed, every criticism. You can't even answer Jen or Shell (women who comprehend the notion of having reasons for their beliefs).

But don't bother on my account. If you find it to your advantage to treat your feelings as some kind of metaphysical absolute, I won't try to make you change. I also won't act as though your deluded self-cloistering is anything but.

 

[Lejuan]

... their insults and prevarications belie your claim of lofty interest in objective debate.

See my position on this is that, after a couple of tongue-in-cheek throw away lines, you called me a coward and a hyprocrite.

Then I take you to task on the very issue over which you leveled those insults at me, and you avoid all engagement on the matter.

You're the champion of vitriol in this thread. Kamandi plays the gentleman to give you an out, to finish this unedifying spectacle of a thread with a conciliatory last word, and you have to get another dig in at those who've challenged you, framed as usual in passive-aggressive poor me-ism.

Now you're telling Kamandi, and by implication other fathers of daughters, what kind of world our girls will be growing up in. My girls will know feckless victimhood when they see it, because neither of their parents will indulge it. They'll understand that "b-b-b-u-t I'm a poor widdle girl in this mean, howwible man's world" won't get them far.

_________________

 

[Solidus]

Oh stop it! We have like 5% female participation on this forum and why is that? Because a lot of women see insane images of dolls in fetishized Iron Man armor and total label collectors as weird, horny fanboy virgins.

Actually, most women would rather spend their money on designer bags, shoes, latest fashions, etc. than on collectibles - that's why we don't see many of them on SSF.

 

[Star Puffs]

Jen, I wanted to finish by responding to you. I let myself get distracted by some of the personal attacks from others when you actually wrote probably the best post. Despite the constant yammering about "feminism" I want to make clear I do not expect women to all agree with me, just as my comment was not an attack on all men. I suspect some of the female board members like cloud or Sueworld might agree with me based on their past comments, but they are not active. How active women are on this site may correlate in how comfortable they are with the dealing with the climate.

When I first saw the image of this - I personally never thought this figure was dressed for combat...but rather playing dress up - as someone else mentioned a woman would wear Victoria's Secret - or some of those rather sexy Halloween costumes.

Except is not a woman playing dress up. It is purely a manifestation of a male fantasy, which is perfectly fine to a point. I am not trying to have this banned or something. I am not someone who support "hate speech" laws for example because the law should not be defined by such subjective concepts. The artist has a right to produce what inspires them and show it freely. That does not mean the aesthetic has to be uncritically welcome, however, and ridicule is a powerful tool.

Because of how I personally depict this figure - your argument of her hair, heels and clothing doesn't apply. She's posed in a relaxed manner....not with a gun in hand like she's getting read to shoot some bad guys.

That is part of the problem. If the artist simply put a woman in a suit of armour like Tony Star, she would not not "sexy" enough for him. Further she suddenly is powerful, like kicking Thor's *** powerful.

The ridiculous elements of vulnerability built into the design help reduce her as beneath Iron Man. There is no way you can look at the figure and think the artist equally respects Black Widow relative to Tony Stark. She is deliberately made less to be subordinate.

If some guy wants to imagine that this is how Black Widow likes to dress for some sexy time...then it's really of little concern to me personally.

That's fine, but ask yourself would you like to see more women in this hobby?

As I told Kamandi, I cannot get women I know who buy these products to join this site. They feel it is inevitably going to be a boy's club and basically predicted the outrage my "feminist" perspective would inspire years ago.

In turn not only does it drive away many women, but it reinforces the worst stereotypes of geek guys. If I show that image to some random non-geek accountant I work with, who otherwise watched Iron Man and Avengers like millions of people, his likely response is a 'virgin in his mother's basement' joke.

Her parted lips and vacant stare - I think is more a fault of Hot Toys not male collectors or this customizer.

That is a fair point. Hot Toys ruined the figure for me and i never bought it. I am glad we are getting a much better one.

Now some people said your post was written in a mean manner....I have to agree with some of it:

People have boiled over in rage against me for simply offering my opinion on other topics. They hate my social and political views (which we have miraculously managed to avoid openly discussing). Kibishii went there in full force, but then edited his post to remove it quickly, which I say to his credit.

Lots of post on this site are written in an extremely mean manner. The only person to whom my post was directed is not the one seething at me with a variety of insults.

I really have nothing but contempt for this "sexy" aesthetic. Just raising this issue was going to spark fury. It is sort of an under current to the hobby that probably embarrasses most men. But what set me off is no one said one negative word about it being posted in the main Marvel section, like this is no different than say Luke's Tommy Lee Jones from Captain America.

As I said in my other posts - this hobby is based on entertainment and fantasy. I really don't think the majority of male collectors here have in any way lost their grip on reality because of some scantily clad female figure. ]What you wrote, I find to be rather insulting to many of the male collectors on this board who are good guys, loving husbands/fathers, etc...and many whom I consider to be my friends.

"majority"

That is the core problem. The furious reaction is largely not what I actually criticised, but either me personally, or rather some non-existent feminist bête noir fantasy, who is against men and sexy dress in general. I keep putting "feminist" in scare quotes in my responses because to many actual feminists, I might as well be a 1950's home maker.

I mean I essentially sew for the benefit of men as my creative input to this site. I mean that jokingly of course, but binky (who would also agree with me i am guessing) really is the only woman ever to buy my work to date. My views are drawn from feminism true, but are tempered by my tolerance for free expression with which I disagree.

And please note in contrast to the personal vitriol directed at me, I knocked the art and the mentality behind the art, which are fair game. I in contrast suffered multiple attacks on my personal appearance, alleged personal life, etc. Do you really find that acceptable? That is a pretty typical manifestation of misogyny.

The fact my post is not a broadside at all men is evident in the multiple male members who said they agreed with me. I listed and thanked them by name in a previous post. That says it all on that point.

***

If you really want me to respond to some point I skipped then please ask, but otherwise I am done and this thread can be locked as far as I am concerned.

 

[devilof76]

Who the **** are you calling misogynist, again?

Actually, most women would rather spend their money on designer bags, shoes, latest fashions, etc. than on collectibles - that's why we don't see many of them on SSF.

No, really. They'd be here in droves to play with Star Wars dolls and read comics. It's every woman's dream.

 

[CriterionCollector]

No, really. They'd be here in droves to play with Star Wars dolls and read comics. It's every woman's dream.

Exactly. You get my point. I feel there is no hint of sarcasm in your post whatsoever.