U.S. Tax Rebate Schedule 2008

[Darth Cruel]

Some stimulus deposits went to the wrong accounts.




^^^^ing Government

LOL...This almost sounds like it could be a metaphor for being scatter-brained. Sorta like "One sandwich short of a picnic".

 

[teemu]

Darth Cruel Ummm...I think you are misquoting (edit - I meant mis-inturpreting) this. Although it is a pre-payment. It is of an added credit from next year that is not a normal credit. It does not come directly from your income tax.[/QUOTE]


if you say so...so when you file for your 2008 return and get much less back
next year dont cry! its not a mis-quote, because many other financials are saying this too and even H/R block said the same thing to me when I asked them about it.Hey, if you want to think its Free money or a tax credit (lol) then power to you!

 

[Dusty]

Ok. I tried.

.....

Hitler was appointed democratically. Majority rules is a notorious violator of minority rights. It's no more than the will of some being forced down the throat of all. One group of people's values, backed by a gun, and dignified with the prestige of law. There is no place for that kind of law in a free society, and the acceptance of that principle over the last century is why this is a free country no more.

.....

If people want something, what happened to the old fashioned way: work, earn, and buy it yourself. As opposed to the new way, which amounts to let someone else work, expropriate their earnings, and use government to make them buy it for you. Yes, very honest, very much legal, and whose rights? The victims we taxed to make it possible? It's their duty to serve us. They have no right to not be sacrificed on the altar of the common good. They have what we need. That's all that matters.

Well, so much for discussion... Hitler mentioned = end of discussion

In closing, from a scientific outlook, I really admire your Darwinistic, survival of the fittest, every man for himself, dog-eat-dog outlook. It worked very well when we were a brand new country with nothing to lose. But the game has changed, starting with the Great Depression - our society is exponentially more global than it has ever been before. To me, that means our thinking needs to change along with it. It's no longer all about us.

I think what's happening here is that you're missing my point that it's about finding a happy medium. I have a hard time thinking that people are just gonna stop working hard if the government legislates certain things that are important to the world as a whole - I know that I wouldn't. But then, I am not really motivated by money or power - more by respect and not wanting to disappoint people. It's up to parents to instill a work ethic in their kids, no matter what the government does or does not do. If a parent fails at that, why should the kid have to suffer?

As for Obama - in my humble opinion from observing politics, taking a few poli-sci classes in college, etc, he's the 100% best choice we have out of the candidates in 2008. He's the only one who has never taken money from lobbyists or special interest groups - and if Edwards does become his running mate, neither has he - so of all the crappy politicians (he is lumped in there, just as a lesser of the evils), I do believe he has more ability than most to actually get things done. Without that hope, what chance do we stand as a nation? (Although, some incredibly racist quotes coming out of West Virginia make me wonder if our nation really deserves a great leader.)

People forget that prior to Medicare, American healthcare was the highest quality and most affordable in the world. Our special brand of semi-regulated, semi-subsidized medicine is what is destroying it today.

As I have said, I can only speak from personal experience, but we have a few doctors in my family - and many doctor friends - well respected, long-time doctors - and they have nothing bad to say about Medicare, other than that it doesn't cover enough sometimes. In their view, it's the greedy insurance and pharmaceutical companies who are ruining our nation's healthcare system. And the insane malpractice suits, therefore the insane cost of malpractice insurance. Doctors take an oath to treat people as well as they can, no matter how rich/poor, what type of insurance they have, or if they can afford it or not. The BEST doctors are many times those who work in the low income clinics (I have been treated by a few of those doctors, both in Planned Parenthood and other neighborhood clinics - they truly care. The ones who ONLY accept people with insurance are oftentimes rude, brusk, and don't seem to give a crap one way or the other, they just want their money and golf time. Obviously I'm making generalizations here, but in my short lifetime of getting treatment for various things, this has been my experience.)

But you're right, I feel like an atheist trying to preach to angels, so I'm bowing out... besides, gotta get a newsletter out tonight

 

[UTtoyfan]

Maybe this affected some of you guys that didn't get your stimulus. The IRS made a mistake??!! Oh no...

"If you have your hopes set on a big "economic stimulus" payment arriving in your bank account any day now, you might have to wait a bit longer. The IRS has announced that a subset of taxpayers are affected by a glitch that is delaying rebates sent to them.

The issue affects people who used a service or software program to do their 2007 taxes and opted to have the fee for those services deducted from the stimulus payment and sent via direct deposit. A bug (which the IRS has not elaborated upon) means those payments will now have to be made via a check sent via postal mail.

In addition to this bug, the IRS has confessed that 1,500 checks or direct payments were sent to the wrong taxpayers. While some reports blame this problem on a computer glitch, the IRS says that it can't necessarily pin the issue on a computer problem. Check any payments received carefully to make sure they're actually yours.

If you have received a check or inaccurate (or duplicate) direct deposit, you are required by law to mail the check back to the IRS and/or report the issue to your bank. If you spent the money, you'll have to pay it back as well.

This isn't the first time the IRS has screwed up rebate payments. In 2001 it sent half a million taxpayers notices of impending rebates (in a similar stimulus/tax relief scheme to what we have this year) that they would never be receiving.

Still haven't gotten your payment? Best not to try calling the IRS, which is now dealing with a reported 2 million incoming phone calls a day. Instead, check the IRS.gov website and consult the payment schedule on this page. And be patient."

https://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/93333

 

[devilof76]

Well, so much for discussion... Hitler mentioned = end of discussion

In closing, from a scientific outlook, I really admire your Darwinistic, survival of the fittest, every man for himself, dog-eat-dog outlook.

Nothing dog-eat-dog about living off of other people though, is there? What would that have to be called, human-eat-human?

I wonder if people spent more time concerning themselves with wealth and power, would they spend less time demanding alms from those who took the trouble to create the wealth and power in the first place?

I think it's ironic that the beggars spend as much time as they do denouncing those who they beg from. As if their handicap was somehow the responsibility of the capable.

I guess it's a good thing that nature has changed so much since the Great Depression that stealing from the productive to give to the unproductive is now the epitome of virute (which Obama certainly has in spades). I guess it won't matter at all once they cart ol' Boxer off to the glue factory, because he can't pull the weight of the whole goddamned farm any more. That's not what's important. What's important is that our President will be 'great'.

 

[Darth Cruel]

Sometime during the night, my stimulus check went into the bank on direct deposit. Interestingly enough...this morning I do feel stimulated.


Sideshow owes Uncle Sam for my purchases yesterday.

On the currently debated subject...as far as the part about Barack Obama being the best candidate because he is the least of the evils. To me, that is the same mentality as choosing to be shot in the head over being stabbed in the stomach or having your head bashed in with a baseball bat because being shot in the head is the quickest and most painless way to die.

I like to think, hell, I HOPE that I would choose not to die.

There is only one person in the entire country who stands out as being on the positive side of the coin as a hopefully decent president. The three candidates that we have now are just more jokes to add to the long list of jokes that our wonderful voters have elected to the Whitehouse. And make absolutely no mistake...it is the voters who have allowed our Presidents to make a mockery of that Office.

The word "voter" is starting to become synonymous with the word "fool". It is already synonymous with "mindless cattle".

Send a message to the government with your votes. Your votes are precious. Stop wasting them on un-worthy candidates. Don't be afraid to send a message by writing in a candidate. Many people seem to think that they are politically savvy if they know what skeletons the opposing candidate has in their closet. How many of you can sit down and look beyond the imperfections and see the value of the people who are not being shoved in your face. Few people have time for that but there is one man who seems to be respected by both sides enough that he is very seldom hit with an attack that has any credibility. And his resume is as impressive as they get.

This will be my first year voting. I have refused to give a gift as precious as my vote to an un-worthy candidate. But I have finally seen a man who would actually be good, maybe not great, but good for the responsibility. And he is getting my write-in this year. It may be the only vote that he gets, but he will get it. I wonder if anyone else sees who it is without being told.

 

[MaulFan]

Sometime during the night, my stimulus check went into the bank on direct deposit. Interestingly enough...this morning I do feel stimulated.


Sideshow owes Uncle Sam for my purchases yesterday.

On the currently debated subject...as far as the part about Barack Obama being the best candidate because he is the least of the evils. To me, that is the same mentality as choosing to be shot in the head over being stabbed in the stomach or having your head bashed in with a baseball bat because being shot in the head is the quickest and most painless way to die.

I like to think, hell, I HOPE that I would choose not to die.

There is only one person in the entire country who stands out as being on the positive side of the coin as a hopefully decent president. The three candidates that we have now are just more jokes to add to the long list of jokes that our wonderful voters have elected to the Whitehouse. And make absolutely no mistake...it is the voters who have allowed our Presidents to make a mockery of that Office.

The word "voter" is starting to become synonymous with the word "fool". It is already synonymous with "mindless cattle".

Send a message to the government with your votes. Your votes are precious. Stop wasting them on un-worthy candidates. Don't be afraid to send a message by writing in a candidate. Many people seem to think that they are politically savvy if they know what skeletons the opposing candidate has in their closet. How many of you can sit down and look beyond the imperfections and see the value of the people who are not being shoved in your face. Few people have time for that but there is one man who seems to be respected by both sides enough that he is very seldom hit with an attack that has any credibility. And his resume is as impressive as they get.

This will be my first year voting. I have refused to give a gift as precious as my vote to an un-worthy candidate. But I have finally seen a man who would actually be good, maybe not great, but good for the responsibility. And he is getting my write-in this year. It may be the only vote that he gets, but he will get it. I wonder if anyone else sees who it is without being told.

Great line of thinking, unfortunately the way things are, the system is locked in the way it is and I don't see it changing. The popular vote doesn't mean all that much, the electoral college has the real power and the U.S. population and government are stuck in a Democrat and Republican mindset and don't give the 3rd party folks any thought, which is tragic because those people actual look like given the chance, they'd really do the right things, but they have no chance, the U.S. is locked in a viscious cycle and I don't know if there's any breaking it without the whole country collapsing.

 

[Darth Cruel]

Great line of thinking, unfortunately the way things are, the system is locked in the way it is and I don't see it changing. The popular vote doesn't mean all that much, the electoral college has the real power and the U.S. population and government are stuck in a Democrat and Republican mindset and don't give the 3rd party folks any thought, which is tragic because those people actual look like given the chance, they'd really do the right things, but they have no chance, the U.S. is locked in a viscious cycle and I don't know if there's any breaking it without the whole country collapsing.

I agree almost completely. I do feel that ultimately, the power for the change that every candidate claims they are bringing, is in the hands of the people.

And the choice I am thinking of?...Comes straight out of one of the two major parties. I am not on the wagon that thinks Ralph Nader or Ross Perot would make a good President. Most of off-party offerings are worse than the offerings of the 2 major parties.

Edit - And you are right about the popular vote not being as important as it should be. But I believe it would at least send a warning to the entrenched system if it was overpowering enough. But I mean a write-in candidate would have to actually win. And that is where the masses would have to break free from the shepherding of the current parties, and actually make the choices based on what is best for all, not just their own little groups. And that is where the trouble lies. In order to get that to happen. The individuals have to be re-programmed to see that their goals can still be attained through another avenue. And that avenue is actually easy to utilize. But that is another subject altogether.

 

[Dusty]

I agree almost completely. I do feel that ultimately, the power for the change that every candidate claims they are bringing, is in the hands of the people.

And the choice I am thinking of?...Comes straight out of one of the two major parties. I am not on the wagon that thinks Ralph Nader or Ross Perot would make a good President. Most of off-party offerings are worse than the offerings of the 2 major parties.

Edit - And you are right about the popular vote not being as important as it should be. But I believe it would at least send a warning to the entrenched system if it was overpowering enough. But I mean a write-in candidate would have to actually win. And that is where the masses would have to break free from the shepherding of the current parties, and actually make the choices based on what is best for all, not just their own little groups. And that is where the trouble lies. In order to get that to happen. The individuals have to be re-programmed to see that their goals can still be attained through another avenue. And that avenue is actually easy to utilize. But that is another subject altogether.

Everybody's got a different opinion about who makes the 'best leader'. Unfortunately, the way it works is we're stuck with what we got thus far - thus my 'lesser of the evils' statement. ALL politicians are slightly evil - they mostly want power, and those that do really really want to help are soon ruined by the system and turned into another cynical, special-interest-cash-taking, flip-flopping politician.

I really do believe that Obama is a slightly different breed, since he hasn't been in the system long enough to become THAT politician yet. And he was an educator, a good one at that, of Constitutional law - he knows the Constitution inside and out. The rhetoric about change started with Obama. And you know what, he was NOT destined to be a front-runner from the beginning. HE WASN'T EVEN ON THE BALLOT IN MICHIGAN - a personal choice that's totally respectful of his party's processes because Michigan was trying to be a rebel. Then, he started gaining ground, and everyone jumped on the 'change' bandwagon. No matter what happens in the end of the Dem primary, the fact that he's been able to INSPIRE over 1.5 million people to give, even a tiny bit, to his campaign, speaks VERY loudly to me. That is unprecedented - whether you like him or not, you gotta give him that; part of being a good leader is the ability to do that - inspire... and make the other guys change their campaign strategy to keep up with you. And to me, that's almost like being a write-in candidate... it's the people making their voices heard, rather than the political special interest groups.

And I have no idea which politician you're thinking of for a write-in, but I'd be more than happy to write him/her in if certain things happen before November - IF I agree with the majority of his/her ideas that is!

I wonder if people spent more time concerning themselves with wealth and power, would they spend less time demanding alms from those who took the trouble to create the wealth and power in the first place?

I think it's ironic that the beggars spend as much time as they do denouncing those who they beg from. As if their handicap was somehow the responsibility of the capable.

You do know that the majority of wealthy people are voting for Obama, right? Because he's a smart guy, and they aren't as worried about their money as they are about truly trying to fix things. Obviously I'm not really talking wealthy Republicans, but even some of my wealthy (and quite conservative - fiscally as well as in their faith) Republican friends admit that he's the best out of the candidates we've been offered.

That's why he has many conservative Repubs running scared. I mean, take Bush's cringe-inducing speech in Israel this week. Hitler mentioned = discussion OVER... especially if you mention him in ISRAEL of all places! A VERY low blow and not worthy of a president to make statements like that - for no good reason, as they just seemed to be passive-aggressively injected into his speech for ^^^^s and giggles - and on foreign soil. Come on, let's at least keep the fear-mongering within our borders, people!

And it's why there's an actual movement in the Republican party - not all of them obviously, but those who fear someone different taking over the status-quo political stage - actually getting fellow Republicans to sign up for the Democratic party in their states before the cut-off time so that they can vote in the primaries and vote for Hillary! They'd rather have Hillary win the Dem vote because there are less Republicans/Independents that would vote for her in the national election than there are who would vote for Obama. This is NOT a lie. I received an e-mail instructing me to do just that from a conservative Republican friend of mine, who also pointed out that the completely ludicrous 'secret Muslim' charge MUST be true because of his name. (I'm an independent, believe it or not, so I get mail from both sets of friends... I like it that way, helps me make a more informed choice when I get to see both sides.)

U.S. politics as it is disgusts me. It turns people into hateful fear-mongers. Is it like this in all democratic countries?


**On a final - and MUCH more important - note, is there anyone here who can make me an "Obama is a secret time-traveling Nazi Muslim" photo to use for my avatar? I'll love you forever.... https://rawstory.com/news/2008/Colbert_Obama_secret_timetraveling_Nazi_Muslim_0516.html

 

[devilof76]

I'm not talking about the top 5% when I refer to wealth and power. I'm talking about the middle class who work their ***** off their entire lives and automatically lose a third of their income every year. That of course doesn't include what they lose in sales taxes, excise taxes, mandatory fees to drive a vehicle and own a home, the amount that prices inflate when corporate taxes are reflected in the cost of goods, the loss in savings when currency is devalued, and the extortion that occurs when government deems as 'off-limits' land that could be put to productive use benefitting human markets, but instead is committed to preserving the moral arrogance of those who believe those lands are 'sacred'.

People who live above the poverty line (and especially people who live well above it) have become fodder for the sacrifices demanded by every idealistic movement in the world. The problem isn't that there is not enough government involvement. The problems we're dealing with now have been created by that involvement.

The Repulicans are as stupid as the Democrats are evil. Barack Obama is a demogogue of the highest order. He is a master of politics in their modern incarnation and in that, he is a stellar candidate. FDR was the same. The entire globe had devolved into statist, interventionist/protectionist neo-mercantilism that had no where to go but WWII. To this day, FDR gets credit for saving us from a depression that he ensured would last for a decade.

I could give a damn what Obama's middle name is. I do give a damn that he has associated with William Ayer (the Weather Undeground; those noble 'freedom' fighters), and that he attended the sermons of Rev. Jeremiah Wright for over 20 years. It has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with evidence of devotion to a political philosophy that has weaseled it's way to legitimacy in what once were hallowed halls.

Americans will be herded by these two parties so long as they keep asking government to accomplish for them what they are incapable (or unwilling) to accomplish themselves. Even a third party would be worthless at this point because it has become an unquestioned assumption that the problem isn't the goal, but the method.

I'm sure Obama will be the best at what American politicians do. He'll be the one who can get things done. He can make it 'work'. Faith in this man is well founded. When he does, that majority of Americans who have 'evolved' beyond independence (opting instead for the sham racket of inter-dependence) will get exactly what they deserve. I wonder if this time, the minority who actually did rebuild this country after WWII will still be around to save it a second time.

 

[Darth Cruel]

Everybody's got a different opinion about who makes the 'best leader'. Unfortunately, the way it works is we're stuck with what we got thus far - thus my 'lesser of the evils' statement. ALL politicians are slightly evil - they mostly want power, and those that do really really want to help are soon ruined by the system and turned into another cynical, special-interest-cash-taking, flip-flopping politician.

This is what I want people to understand. I don't believe that we are stuck with the options given to us until the Presidential election is over and the votes are counted. And i believe this BECAUSE of the write-in option.

I really do believe that Obama is a slightly different breed, since he hasn't been in the system long enough to become THAT politician yet. And he was an educator, a good one at that, of Constitutional law - he knows the Constitution inside and out. The rhetoric about change started with Obama. And you know what, he was NOT destined to be a front-runner from the beginning. HE WASN'T EVEN ON THE BALLOT IN MICHIGAN - a personal choice that's totally respectful of his party's processes because Michigan was trying to be a rebel. Then, he started gaining ground, and everyone jumped on the 'change' bandwagon. No matter what happens in the end of the Dem primary, the fact that he's been able to INSPIRE over 1.5 million people to give, even a tiny bit, to his campaign, speaks VERY loudly to me. That is unprecedented - whether you like him or not, you gotta give him that; part of being a good leader is the ability to do that - inspire... and make the other guys change their campaign strategy to keep up with you. And to me, that's almost like being a write-in candidate... it's the people making their voices heard, rather than the political special interest groups.

Despite this, he has easily shown with the Jeremiah Write issue and the fact that he claims to have never taken special interest money (albiet, not very much, less than 10,000 dollars total from about 5 sources, at least one of which was a P.A.C.), that he is already far enough along in the transformation to be willing, without hesitation, to play the same game as every other hard-charging politician when it comes to lying to cover up his mistakes. What bothers me the most about this is that his mistakes are not even lie-worthy. They were small and would have been easily put behind him if he said "Yeah, sorry, 10,000 special interest dollars got by in my multy-million dollar campaign fund. Sorry...I'll give it back and thanks for bringing it to my attention".

And I have no idea which politician you're thinking of for a write-in, but I'd be more than happy to write him/her in if certain things happen before November - IF I agree with the majority of his/her ideas that is!

Gen. Colin Luther Powell (Ret)

Edit - By the way. My respect for Colin Powell is such that I will not call him a politician. He is a Statesman.

You do know that the majority of wealthy people are voting for Obama, right? Because he's a smart guy, and they aren't as worried about their money as they are about truly trying to fix things. Obviously I'm not really talking wealthy Republicans, but even some of my wealthy (and quite conservative - fiscally as well as in their faith) Republican friends admit that he's the best out of the candidates we've been offered.

In the 20 years or so that I have paid attention, I have seen nothing in the actions of the wealthy that lead me to believe that a large group of them banding together is for nothing but the common good. The simple fact that a large group of them are banding together behind a specific candidate SHOULD be a red flag. The wealthy are not known for taking up the cause of the poor. If they were known for that, we would not have a bunch of homeless people suffering in the gutters. There is PLENTY of money in the coffers of the wealthy to fix THAT.

Edit - And, of course, there are exceptions to this generality. I know that there are wealthy people who help less fortunate people.

That's why he has many conservative Repubs running scared. I mean, take Bush's cringe-inducing speech in Israel this week. Hitler mentioned = discussion OVER... especially if you mention him in ISRAEL of all places! A VERY low blow and not worthy of a president to make statements like that - for no good reason, as they just seemed to be passive-aggressively injected into his speech for ^^^^s and giggles - and on foreign soil. Come on, let's at least keep the fear-mongering within our borders, people!

Bush's comments are typical for politicians. Bush has been compared to Hitler by Democrats (Kieth Ellison D.-Minnesota did it). This type of mudslinging has been going on for longer than I have been alive. It is pulled up over and over again. The problem is we, the voters, being duped into getting mad at the other party for doing it when it happens both ways all the time.

And don't get me wrong...I think Bush's comments were deplorable. But I think they are deplorable every time they are used by both Republicans AND Democrats. It is nothing more than politspeak and it is fooling the masses. And every administration has used them or some similar to them.

And it's why there's an actual movement in the Republican party - not all of them obviously, but those who fear someone different taking over the status-quo political stage - actually getting fellow Republicans to sign up for the Democratic party in their states before the cut-off time so that they can vote in the primaries and vote for Hillary! They'd rather have Hillary win the Dem vote because there are less Republicans/Independents that would vote for her in the national election than there are who would vote for Obama. This is NOT a lie. I received an e-mail instructing me to do just that from a conservative Republican friend of mine, who also pointed out that the completely ludicrous 'secret Muslim' charge MUST be true because of his name. (I'm an independent, believe it or not, so I get mail from both sets of friends... I like it that way, helps me make a more informed choice when I get to see both sides.)

Once again, although this is true, this is a normal strategy for politicians. It happens in every election. And there are Republicans that think Clinton is more electable than Obama and they are doing the same thing in reverse.

U.S. politics as it is disgusts me. It turns people into hateful fear-mongers. Is it like this in all democratic countries?

I would hope not. But My belief is that calling the U.S. a Democracy or a Democratic Republic is an attempt to hide what we really are...a Capitolistic society. I don't see being a Capitolistic Republic as being a bad thing. But we need to embrace the truth and use it responsibly.

 

[drbrad1975]

Darth....I completely agree with you and everything that you have said. Well spoken!!

 

[Darth Cruel]

Darth....I completely agree with you and everything that you have said. Well spoken!!

Thanks dbrad - I actually started writing up a whole website dedicated to trying to get people to use the power they have to curb the grotesque abuse of power that our politicians have come to be comfortable with. The things I learned researching that website scared me. It actually happened that the more I dug, the more disheartened I got until I finally allowed a busy schedule to keep me from having to face it any more. I had about 80 pages done. I hope to revive it, but I lost that computer to a crash. I am hoping that my brother or my father-in-law still has a copy of the file that I emailed them to proof-read.

While I was researching it, I learned a lot from polls had been done and some of that information nearly made me shudder. I learned how politicians exploit every little possible advantage for capturing votes (I know that is not news, but before the research, I did not know how deep it went). It is so bad that JFK actually had planned, as part of his campaign strategy, to play up his good looks to garner the support of a voter demographic that had not been tapped before...bored housewives. And a poll of voters afterward seemed to support that the strategy worked, though it was not the deciding factor of the election, a lot of polled housewives said they voted for him just because he was good-looking. Another, more recent poll was taken to find out how many people knew where the government got it's money from. I almost crapped to find out that 85% of the people polled COULD NOT SAY WHERE THE GOVERNMENT GETS IT"S MONEY FROM. Now, I can not vouch for what demographic was polled. But in my head...85% of ANY group that can not tell you where the government gets it's money is sickening, unless the group is full of children under 10.

The thing that stuck in my mind most clearly after working on that website is that when people say the system is a mess, it is just about the worst understatement ever to be communicated.

 

[Dusty]

Thanks dbrad - I actually started writing up a whole website dedicated to trying to get people to use the power they have to curb the grotesque abuse of power that our politicians have come to be comfortable with. The things I learned researching that website scared me. It actually happened that the more I dug, the more disheartened I got until I finally allowed a busy schedule to keep me from having to face it any more. I had about 80 pages done. I hope to revive it, but I lost that computer to a crash. I am hoping that my brother or my father-in-law still has a copy of the file that I emailed them to proof-read.

While I was researching it, I learned a lot from polls had been done and some of that information nearly made me shudder. I learned how politicians exploit every little possible advantage for capturing votes (I know that is not news, but before the research, I did not know how deep it went). It is so bad that JFK actually had planned, as part of his campaign strategy, to play up his good looks to garner the support of a voter demographic that had not been tapped before...bored housewives. And a poll of voters afterward seemed to support that the strategy worked, though it was not the deciding factor of the election, a lot of polled housewives said they voted for him just because he was good-looking. Another, more recent poll was taken to find out how many people knew where the government got it's money from. I almost crapped to find out that 85% of the people polled COULD NOT SAY WHERE THE GOVERNMENT GETS IT"S MONEY FROM. Now, I can not vouch for what demographic was polled. But in my head...85% of ANY group that can not tell you where the government gets it's money is sickening, unless the group is full of children under 10.

The thing that stuck in my mind most clearly after working on that website is that when people say the system is a mess, it is just about the worst understatement ever to be communicated.

I 100% agree with you. The system is a TOTAL mess. I think some are mis-understanding me. I do not necessarily want our federal government to be bigger than it already is... just want to get priorities re-organized. I'm not convinced that socialized healthcare is the way to go for America, although it works well in some other (smaller, less divisive) countries. But there's GOT to be some happy medium between what we have now and going the complete opposite direction.

But I do 100% back any type of legislature that will actually help our environment and improve our educational system to leave a better legacy for our grandchildren. (ACTUALLY help, not just pretend to help... "no child left behind" my butt...)

And I can definitely get behind your backing of Colin Powell. He is a great man... which pretty much means he'll never be a politician In fact, the words I've read from Colin Powell and those that I've read from Barack Obama, they are sometimes strikingly similar. (good summary for Powell: https://www.govote.com/Celeb/Colin_Powell_Principles_+_Values.htm ... And Barack's book 'The Audacity of Hope' is a very good read .... great quote: I told them that they were right: government couldn't solve all their problems. But with a slight change in priorities we could make sure every child had a decent shot at life and meet the challenges we faced as a nation.) Both do not agree with their chosen parties on every single issue and are willing to be bi-partisan and listen and compromise with the other side. Both believe in the women's right to choose and the importance of children's welfare and healthcare. And Powell actually tried to talk Bush out of going to war in Iraq: https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2042072.ece

(I could go on, but we'll stop there)

I'm not talking about the top 5% when I refer to wealth and power. I'm talking about the middle class who work their ***** off their entire lives and automatically lose a third of their income every year. That of course doesn't include what they lose in sales taxes, excise taxes, mandatory fees to drive a vehicle and own a home, the amount that prices inflate when corporate taxes are reflected in the cost of goods, the loss in savings when currency is devalued, and the extortion that occurs when government deems as 'off-limits' land that could be put to productive use benefitting human markets, but instead is committed to preserving the moral arrogance of those who believe those lands are 'sacred'.

Speaking of the middle class and lower, did you know Obama wants to get rid of income tax for people who make less than $50,000? (woo hoo - great news for me!) And give better tax breaks to those who make between $50K-$200K, thus *re-adjusting* and getting rid of the recent ludicrous tax breaks given to the extremely wealthy? He also wants to give home owner credits for those that own a house but do not itemize deductions (usually those people make about $50K and under - yay again! (search 'Obama Tax Cuts' for all the articles about it) And yet the wealthy who will start being taxed more heavily are still voting for him... because they realize that this is a GOOD thing for our middle classes. If we continue the way we have been, there soon will no longer be a middle class.

Finally, IMO, the whole Rev. Wright thing has been thrown COMPLETELY out of proportion. It's like they couldn't find much real dirt on him, so they pulled 20 seconds of sermons from the vaults. I'm willing to bet more than a few conservative Republican candidates have sat in the pews of a church whose members and leaders believe that AIDS is God's way of punishing those who sin. Both views are total and complete opinions of the person speaking them... Government conspiracy VS Religious zealotry - which is worse in a leader? I think they're pretty even - BUT those candidates on both sides don't necessarily believe either of them, just because they sat in the pew. You CANNOT judge a person by the people he may or may not have dealt with in his life. We all have sneaky and suspicious people in our lives, that we either work with or hold as acquaintances... some even in our FAMILIES Does that make us bad people by association? If that were true, the best leader would have to be a hermit!

All we can judge people on (if you're gonna judge people at all) is what they've DONE in their lives... let our actions speak for us. Obama's actions have been pretty good for a politician so far. His Constitutional Law students loved him, his fellow professors had nothing but respect for him, he's got a firebrand of a wife who sticks by him but isn't afraid to speak her mind if she disagrees (let's see HER just stand by and accept it if he has a smarmy affair with a White House intern - she'd probably lead the impeachment process!), and he's pulled himself up from poverty to where he is now. The whole thing, from his mixed heritage background, to his position in the Senate, is a more American story than most wealthy politicians can claim.

Well, anyway, long story short... DarthCruel has my pledge to write-in Colin Powell in November should a certain Clinton win the Dem primary

(And I know I know, I shouldn't be discussing politics on a collecting board, but I do seriously love learning and talking about this stuff - I just hope I haven't offended anyone! I'll stop if I have.)

 

[Darth Cruel]

I 100% agree with you. The system is a TOTAL mess. I think some are mis-understanding me. I do not necessarily want our federal government to be bigger than it already is... just want to get priorities re-organized. I'm not convinced that socialized healthcare is the way to go for America, although it works well in some other (smaller, less divisive) countries. But there's GOT to be some happy medium between what we have now and going the complete opposite direction.

But I do 100% back any type of legislature that will actually help our environment and improve our educational system to leave a better legacy for our grandchildren. (ACTUALLY help, not just pretend to help... "no child left behind" my butt...)

And I can definitely get behind your backing of Colin Powell. He is a great man... which pretty much means he'll never be a politician In fact, the words I've read from Colin Powell and those that I've read from Barak Obama, they are sometimes strikingly similar. (good summary for Powell: https://www.govote.com/Celeb/Colin_Powell_Principles_+_Values.htm ... And Barak's book 'The Audacity of Hope' is a very good read .... great quote: I told them that they were right: government couldn't solve all their problems. But with a slight change in priorities we could make sure every child had a decent shot at life and meet the challenges we faced as a nation.) Both do not agree with their chosen parties on every single issue and are willing to be bi-partisan and listen and compromise with the other side. Both believe in the women's right to choose and the importance of children's welfare and healthcare. And Powell actually tried to talk Bush out of going to war in Iraq: https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2042072.ece

(I could go on, but we'll stop there)

And speaking of the middle class and lower, did you know Obama wants to get rid of income tax for people who make less than $50,000? (woo hoo - great news for me!) And give better tax breaks to those who make between $50K-$200K, thus *re-adjusting* and getting rid of the recent ludicrous tax breaks given to the extremely wealthy? (search 'Obama Tax Cuts' for all the articles about it) And yet those wealthy are still voting for him... because they realize that this is a GOOD thing for our middle classes. If we continue the way we have been, there soon will no longer be a middle class.

Finally, IMO, the whole Rev. Wright thing has been thrown COMPLETELY out of proportion. It's like they couldn't find much real dirt on him, so they pulled 20 seconds of sermons from the vaults. I'm willing to bet more than a few conservative Republican candidates have sat in the pews of a church whose members and leaders believe that AIDS is God's way of punishing those who sin. Both views are total and complete opinions of the person speaking them... Government conspiracy VS Religious zealotry - which is worse in a leader? I think they're pretty even - BUT those candidates on both sides don't necessarily believe either of them, just because they sat in the pew. You CANNOT judge a person by the people he may or may not have dealt with in his life. We all have sneaky and suspicious people in our lives, that we either work with or hold as acquaintances... some even in our FAMILIES Does that make us bad people by association? If that were true, the best leader would have to be a hermit!

All we can judge people on (if you're gonna judge people at all) is what they've DONE in their lives... let our actions speak for us. Obama's actions have been pretty good for a politician so far. His Constitutional Law students loved him, his fellow professors had nothing but respect for him, he's got a firebrand of a wife who sticks by him but isn't afraid to speak her mind if she disagrees (let's see HER just stand by and accept it if he has a smarmy affair with a White House intern - she'd probably lead the impeachment process!), and he's pulled himself up from poverty to where he is now. The whole thing, from his mixed heritage background, to his position in the Senate, is a more American story than most wealthy politicians can claim.

Well, anyway, long story short... you have my pledge to write-in Colin Powell should Hill-dog with the Dem primary

(And I know I know, I shouldn't be discussing politics on a collecting board, but I do seriously love learning and talking about this stuff - I just hope I haven't offended anyone! I'll stop if I have.)

No offense taken and none meant. I think it is sad that politics and religion are such taboos on collector's boards. Collectors' boards are as legitimate a place to congregate as any place else. It is a pity that some people mess it up for others. I have been concerned about offending you. I do have to see you again at Comic-Con.

 

[Dusty]

Bush's comments are typical for politicians. Bush has been compared to Hitler by Democrats (Kieth Ellison D.-Minnesota did it). This type of mudslinging has been going on for longer than I have been alive. It is pulled up over and over again. The problem is we, the voters, being duped into getting mad at the other party for doing it when it happens both ways all the time.

And don't get me wrong...I think Bush's comments were deplorable. But I think they are deplorable every time they are used by both Republicans AND Democrats. It is nothing more than politspeak and it is fooling the masses. And every administration has used them or some similar to them.

I never said I like EITHER party playing the Hitler card - or any type of mudslinging EVER. I am aware of some Dems comparing Bush to Hitler, and I didn't like it then either. What makes this even WORSE, in my mind, is that is was on foreign soil for no reason whatsoever - he only played that card because, duh, the Jewish relationship with Hitler. It's the lowest of the low. He was supposed to be celebrating their 60th anniversary, not reminding them of horrors of the past, making passive-aggressive remarks about a Democratic candidate concerning what they would or would not have done if they happened to live 60 years ago in a totally different world. As soon as Obama plays a card like that, I'm out. So far I think he's done a pretty good job at not striking back, even when Hillary played the race card HEAVILY in a phone interview a couple weeks ago.

And it angers me to no end that people never fail to fall for it. People actually BELIEVE that Obama is a Muslim in disguise and will turn on America the first chance he gets. HUH??

Once again, although this is true, this is a normal strategy for politicians. It happens in every election. And there are Republicans that think Clinton is more electable than Obama and they are doing the same thing in reverse.

And the strategy makes my blood boil. I received nothing from Democratic supporters calling for some kind of crazy action against the Republican candidates (although I definitely don't agree with their smear campaigns either). They had their race, it's over, let the Dems have theirs! Drives me up the wall... I think I should just do some yoga and pretend that politics doesn't exist

(Oh, and maybe I don't associate with the correct Republicans, but I've not heard any of them saying to vote for Obama because Hillary would make a stronger candidate. Most conservatives [from both parties] and many independents cannot stand Hillary and wouldn't vote for her if it was a choice between her and Satan.)

 

[Dusty]

No offense taken and none meant. I think it is sad that politics and religion are such taboos on collector's boards. Collectors' boards are as legitimate a place to congregate as any place else. It is a pity that some people mess it up for others. I have been concerned about offending you. I do have to see you again at Comic-Con.

I don't get offended. Life's too short for that. I have my opinions and am not afraid to state them, but I'm not gonna scream and yell and call people names if they don't agree with me... and you know, I think maybe we agree more than not, but it's just harder for me to really be clear when writing! :chew

 

[Dusty]

I'm sure Obama will be the best at what American politicians do. He'll be the one who can get things done. He can make it 'work'. Faith in this man is well founded. When he does, that majority of Americans who have 'evolved' beyond independence (opting instead for the sham racket of inter-dependence) will get exactly what they deserve. I wonder if this time, the minority who actually did rebuild this country after WWII will still be around to save it a second time.

Sorry, sorry, I know I should try that yoga right about now, but this is calling to me. Inter-dependence is key to survival! I'm not sure how anyone can argue that? Not everyone is born to parents who care about them. Is that the CHILD'S fault? If you agree that it's not, and they should not have to pay for their parent's mistakes (or suffer through child abuse, malnutrition, lack of education, etc), then what is the solution if not inter-dependence? You can stretch this out into global allegories, such as one country not having enough energy reserves or food... do we just stand by and let them starve to death? Or do we trade with them and keep them going because they also have something that we can use in return?... inter-dependence.

I'm not talking CO-DEPENDENCE, because that's unhealthy. But we all need each other to survive to some extent. No man is an island, it takes a village, and all that...

If you truly believe that complete and utter independence (isolation?) is the answer, have fun on your island not relying on help from anyone... I'll be over here enjoying the compassion of my fellow human beings

 

[devilof76]

If you truly believe that complete and utter independence (isolation?) is the answer, have fun on your island not relying on help from anyone... I'll be over here enjoying the compassion of my fellow human beings

That's a classic smear. I don't expect everyone on Earth to have the ability to think without borrowing ideas from other people, or to act without assistance from other people, or to be able to prop up their self-esteem without a little help from their friends.

But if there was no one who couldn't stand completely on their own, or no one capable of generating new ideas, or even able to perform an act of cognition entirely with their own mind, humanity would still be chasing their food with sharp sticks. If that.

What has been buried under the past century's infatuation with collectivism is the fact that the 'islands' are the one's who the rest are dependent on. The excuse for shackling them has been that they are as incapable of living without the village as the village is incapable of living without them.

In truth, they don't need the village. But the village (for example, Soviet Russia, a country that was sitting on the most fertile land on the planet, but was perpetually faced with the looming starvation of millions of people) would be up the creek without those who need no help to solve the world's problems.

It's a telling sign of the times that there are so few true innovators left. People obviously gain huge benefits from living in society, but not when thought becomes something that requires the permission of a commitee of bureaucrats who wouldn't know a new idea if it crashed through their boardroom window like a meteor. When that's the case, the independent thinkers disappear into the woodwork and society is forced to rely on the momentum created from the days when the 'islands' were free to share their genius with the rest.

There is no 'collective mind'. All thought is an independent act, if it is actual thought and not just parrotting. If thought is what separates human beings from the rest of the animal kingdom, there is no truly human society unless independent thinkers are free to do so. And that freedom is not something society has a right to abrogate once their income rises above $50,000.

You enjoy your group-hugs. We'll be up here on Olympus if you need anything.

 

[IrishJedi]

Can we just go back to ^^^^^ing about not getting our checks yet, please?

POLITICAL POSTURING = SUCK