UFC, etc.

[nash]

Strictly comparing competition in the UFC:

Anderson Silva

Chris Leben - Unranked - KO
Rich Franklin - UFC MW Champion (Top 5 MW Then) - KO
Travis Lutter - Unranked - Submission (Elbows)
Nate Marquardt - 1st Title Defense (Top 5 MW Then and Now) - TKO
Rich Franklin II - 2nd Title Defense (Top 5 MW Then) - TKO
Dan Henderson - PRIDE MW Champion (Top 5 MW then and Now) 3rd Title Defense + Unified the UFC and PRIDE MW Titles - Submission (Rear Naked Choke)
James Irvin - LHW - KO
Patrick Cote - Unranked I believe - TKO (Injury)
Thales Leites - Top 10 MW (Then and Now) - Decision (Unanimous)


Lyoto Machida

Sam Hoger - Unranked - Decision (Unanimous)
David Heath - Unranked - Decision (Unanimous)
Kazuhiro Nakamura - Unranked - Decision (Unanimous)
Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou - Top 10 LHW (Then) - Submission (Arm Triangle)
Tito Ortiz - Unranked - Decision (Unanimous)
Thiago Silva - Top 10 LHW (Then and Now) - KO
Rashad Evans - UFC LHW Champion (#1 Ranked LHW) - KO


Anderson gets so much praise because he cleared out the UFC MW division and in the process, finished 4 Top 5 MWs (Franklin Twice, Marquardt and Henderson) Unified the PRIDE and UFC MW Titles, Has the most consecutive wins in the UFC (9) and holds the record for most consecutive Title Defenses in the UFC (6).

Machida hasn't come close to doing any of that.. YET. Like I said.. he has a wide open road ahead. Unlike Fedor, A.Silva and B.J. Penn, Machida and GSP are in divisions that have almost ALL the Top 10 fighters IN the UFC. So it's possible for a UFC WW/MW to clear out 99% of the Top 10 (general consensus).

If Machida managed to do that, or even GSP.. there would be no question they were (at that time) the best because that's never been done before. No fighter (Yeah NASEDO not even Fedor) has ever beaten that many current Top 10 fighters in their division.

Good points dude. but the ones i bolded for A Silva, i dont feel are very worthy opponents.

and if you compare that Machida beat penn and franklin as well. they seem to look pretty even except for the fact that Silva defended his belt more times. Lyotto definitely has that test ahead of him but I think he will be able to hold on to the belt for a little while longer than Evans, Jackson, and Griffin.

 

[Devil_666]

Good points dude. but the ones i bolded for A Silva, i dont feel are very worthy opponents.

oh I agree. Same goes for Machida's first 3 UFC opponents imo though.

and if you compare that Machida beat penn and franklin as well. they seem to look pretty even except for the fact that Silva defended his belt more times.

Well if you compare outside UFC opponents, Anderson Silva also beat Hayato "Mach" Sakurai when Mach was:

1. Considered the #1 MW in the world
2. Considered the #1 P4P fighter in the world
3. Undefeated in 20 fights (18-0-2) over 5 years
4. The Shooto MW Champion

And when they fought A.Silva was like 4 - 1. So I would still say Anderson has achieved more in MMA and the UFC than Machida. As of right now.

Lyotto definitely has that test ahead of him but I think he will be able to hold on to the belt for a little while longer than Evans, Jackson, and Griffin.

Possibly. It's hard to say. That division is so stacked ANYONE can lose. That's why the LHW and WW divisions in the UFC are so good: so many top 10 fighters in one org. I wish ALL fighters could fight each other that way each division would have a clear cut Champion/absolute best.

 

[NASEDO]

Who said that!? I must've missed it. I don't think Machida is the greatest fighter ever, imo the only credible LHW he's fought so far has been Rashad. At least the only top 5 LHW he's fought. He has a long way to go. Lately NO ONE has been able to keep the LHW title.. because the division is so stacked. So we'll see.. if Machida beats Shogun and then Rampage/Evans again then maybe people can start saying he's something special. But it's way too early to tell at this point imo. He needs more wins.

Wow...I think this is the first time I ever agreed with you.

 

[Devil_666]

Looks like Trigg will be fighting Koscheck at UFC 103. Concerning the big UFC announcement it might have to do with this:

The fight for mixed-martial-arts regulation in the potentially lucrative New York market cleared a major hurdle today.

The New York State Assembly's Committee on Tourism, Parks, Arts and Sports today garnered a favorable vote for Bill 2009-B, which would call for the New York State Athletic Commission to regulate MMA.

MMAjunkie.com medical columnist Dr. Johnny Benjamin, who helped state politicians form arguments in favor of the sports and its safety, today confirmed the vote passed with a 14-6 margin.

Eleven votes were needed to pass the bill beyond the committee.

"We've cleared a huge hurdle in getting it [past] our committee," Michael Kim, assistant to New York Assemblyman (and bill supporter) Steven Englebright, stated in an email. "Until today, we had never gotten it [past] our committee."

However, before it heads to the Assembly floor, the bill must first clear New York's Codes Committee, which will inspect the legal details of the bill.

The biggest hurdle, though, was getting the bill out of the Committee on Tourism, Parks, Arts and Sports. Although MMA's most prominent organization, the Ultimate Fighting Championship, entered the fight with a massive public-awareness campaign, the bill faced heavy opposition, most notably from Assemblyman Bob Reilly.

"MMA is sport with an excellent track record of being proactive when it comes to fighter safety," Dr. Benjamin said. "I'm happy that I could play a small role to help further that message."

The UFC has long desired to hold an event in New York, which last hosted a UFC event in 1995, when "UFC 7: The Brawl in Buffalo" took place in front of 9,000 spectators at the Buffalo Memorial Auditorium.

The state banned MMA two years later.

 

[sscalltheway]

I'm going to take Koscheck on this one. Trigg is just too old.

 

[NASEDO]

thats an extrmemely great list of fighters to have beaten........GSP is gettin there though, im not a hardcore mma fan like a lot of you guys, dont get me wrong, i love practicing mma and jiu jitsu and shiz like that, as far as fedor goes, i have never seen one of his fights, and i havent really heard of a lot of his oppenents, and from what i hear, he pretty much gets to pick them, which is gay, but i think he hasnt beaten some of the guys i think he should for me to declare him the best in the world; at this point, i think silva has more impressive wins then fedor, and i think couture is the best fighter ever, at this point in time though

QUOTE]

This is a bias statement, you never seen the guy fight, and I think this is a common example with most UFC fans putting down Fedor.

 

[NASEDO]

The P4P list should be
1. Fedor
2. Anderson Silva
3. GSP

as far as Machida and rank....theres no way he's higher the Anderson Silva. Before the Evans fight, Machida was considered a boring fighter. He almost got submitted against Tito, and some thought Tito won since Machida didn't commit in that fight.

We seen Andersons awesome standup, and then his awesome ground game. Shogun will be Machida biggest test.

 

[kobayashi93]

Concerning the big UFC announcement it might have to do with this:

Could be. I just hope it's not UFC on PSNetwork. That was announced yesterday. Meh.

 

[bumblebee]

The P4P list should be
1. Anderson Silva
2. Fedor
3. GSP

as far as Machida and rank....theres no way he's higher the Anderson Silva. Before the Evans fight, Machida was considered a boring fighter. He almost got submitted against Tito, and some thought Tito won since Machida didn't commit in that fight.

We seen Andersons awesome standup, and then his awesome ground game. Shogun will be Machida biggest test.

Fixed that for ya and if GSP wins at UFC 100 i'd bump him up the #2.

 

[Devil_666]

This is a bias statement, you never seen the guy fight, and I think this is a common example with most UFC fans putting down Fedor.

And I think that is a bias statement and is common of Fedor fans.

God forbid that someone actually be an MMA fan, followed the sport for numerous years, KNOW about Fedor and what he's done in MMA, KNOW about the opponents he's faced, and STILL not think he's the best. That's unfathomable to Fedor fans. It's unthinkable. So of course, since that opinion doesn't match your own that must automatically make anyone who isn't like-minded and a devout Fedor fan a noob. A UFC nut hugger. Clueless. Etc. It's such a pathetic arguement.

I've watched MMA since UFC 1. I followed it until it got Banned out here in S.F. from Viacom. I got back into it when I found out that despite not being on PPV/TV that MMA events were still happening. I got caught up, back up to speed and started following it again. UFC got a spike deal and started doing PPV's again. I started watching PRIDE fights on the internet. Started watching different orgs and different fights. Learning about the different fighters and how the sport evolved since I last watched. I've seen just about every available Fedor fight that's out there, including Combat Sambo matches and exhibitions.

But the minute I or anyone like me has the audacity to disagree with your biased statement that Fedor is the absolute best suddenly I know nothing about Fedor. Suddenly I'm a UFC nut hugger. Suddenly I'm clueless when it comes to MMA. And suddenly just because YOU; a die hard Fedor fan believes that YOUR favorite fighter is #1, that makes YOU an MMA EXPERT.

You're very biased when it comes to ANYTHING Fedor. Period.

Let me ask you this, because I want to see for sure how BAD your devotion actually is:

How many times would Fedor have to lose or, if he didn't lose again (YEAH.. Fedor has a loss. Might be a BS loss.. but his record still shows an L) what specifically would another fighter have to do in order for you to NOT consider Fedor #1?

Because I've seen some WAY OUT answers to that question before. I mean WAY OUT. So answer that for me.

 

[kobayashi93]

This thread cracks me up. CAPS LOCK!

I'm not going to speak for nasedo, but as someone who does think Fedor is p4p best, he only has to lose once, and that title is gone imo...and that doesn't automatically make the guy that beats him p4p best either.

 

[NASEDO]

And I think that is a bias statement and is common of Fedor fans.

God forbid that someone actually be an MMA fan, followed the sport for numerous years, KNOW about Fedor and what he's done in MMA, KNOW about the opponents he's faced, and STILL not think he's the best. That's unfathomable to Fedor fans. It's unthinkable. So of course, since that opinion doesn't match your own that must automatically make anyone who isn't like-minded and a devout Fedor fan a noob. A UFC nut hugger. Clueless. Etc. It's such a pathetic arguement.

I've watched MMA since UFC 1. I followed it until it got Banned out here in S.F. from Viacom. I got back into it when I found out that despite not being on PPV/TV that MMA events were still happening. I got caught up, back up to speed and started following it again. UFC got a spike deal and started doing PPV's again. I started watching PRIDE fights on the internet. Started watching different orgs and different fights. Learning about the different fighters and how the sport evolved since I last watched. I've seen just about every available Fedor fight that's out there, including Combat Sambo matches and exhibitions.

But the minute I or anyone like me has the audacity to disagree with your biased statement that Fedor is the absolute best suddenly I know nothing about Fedor. Suddenly I'm a UFC nut hugger. Suddenly I'm clueless when it comes to MMA. And suddenly just because YOU; a die hard Fedor fan believes that YOUR favorite fighter is #1, that makes YOU an MMA EXPERT.

You're very biased when it comes to ANYTHING Fedor. Period.

Let me ask you this, because I want to see for sure how BAD your devotion actually is:

How many times would Fedor have to lose or, if he didn't lose again (YEAH.. Fedor has a loss. Might be a BS loss.. but his record still shows an L) what specifically would another fighter have to do in order for you to NOT consider Fedor #1?

Because I've seen some WAY OUT answers to that question before. I mean WAY OUT. So answer that for me.

So your saying that quote isn't biased???????? I dont even wanna waste my time with such stupidity. I just cant do it. And the new HT Iron Man figure sucks, I never seen the figure but thats what someone told me. So let me go tell all the puppets out there.

 

[NASEDO]

This thread cracks me up. CAPS LOCK!

I'm not going to speak for nasedo, but as someone who does think Fedor is p4p best, he only has to lose once, and that title is gone imo...and that doesn't automatically make the guy that beats him p4p best either.

If Fedor loses which he may, very likely, (and Barnett would beat any UFC HW), of course he loses the P4P title.

 

[Devil_666]

And that's it? So if he continues to win, even against scrubs like he did after fighting Cro Cop and before fighting Tim Sylvia.. over 2 years, as long as he just doesn't lose he remains the best!? Even with other fighters actually fighting credible fighters, RANKED fighters in their respective divisions!? Sweet lord.

 

[sscalltheway]

The P4P list should be
1. Fedor
2. Anderson Silva
3. GSP

as far as Machida and rank....theres no way he's higher the Anderson Silva. Before the Evans fight, Machida was considered a boring fighter. He almost got submitted against Tito, and some thought Tito won since Machida didn't commit in that fight.

We seen Andersons awesome standup, and then his awesome ground game. Shogun will be Machida biggest test.

It truly depends on what Shogun shows up. He hasn't adapted well to the UFC, i don't know why. Some people say the use of steriods, the fact it's a cage and a bunch of other BS stuff, but the fact is he hasn't looked good or even close to his former Pride self. If old Rua enters the fight then it will be Machida's biggest test, but if the UFC Rua enters the Octagon then Machida's biggest test was Rashad Evans.

 

[Devil_666]

Old Rua and UFC Rua!? lmao. So everytime he loses he's UFC Rua.. and everytime he wins like against Chuck Liddell he's "back" and the old Rua!?

 

[NASEDO]

And that's it? So if he continues to win, even against scrubs like he did after fighting Cro Cop and before fighting Tim Sylvia.. over 2 years, as long as he just doesn't lose he remains the best!? Even with other fighters actually fighting credible fighters, RANKED fighters in their respective divisions!? Sweet lord.

You for real. You make absolutely no sense. He's fighting the 2nd best HW in the world. Another bias statement. Its such crap. You shouldnt even watch the sport. The only HW he wouldnt have fought would be Couture which he would destroy.

And for the record Fedor isn't my favorite fighter, I actually dont have favorites, I just like to see good fights. And whoever wins they deserve it.

 

[NASEDO]

It truly depends on what Shogun shows up. He hasn't adapted well to the UFC, i don't know why. Some people say the use of steriods, the fact it's a cage and a bunch of other BS stuff, but the fact is he hasn't looked good or even close to his former Pride self. If old Rua enters the fight then it will be Machida's biggest test, but if the UFC Rua enters the Octagon then Machida's biggest test was Rashad Evans.

He had a 17 month layoff from back to back knee surgeries. When you knee is blown you cant train.

 

[NASEDO]

This thread cracks me up,i really cant stop laughing. But if I see Chuck Liddell Tomorrow I'll try to get him to post here.

 

[Devil_666]

You for real. You make absolutely no sense. He's fighting the 2nd best HW in the world. Another bias statement. Its such crap. You shouldnt even watch the sport. The only HW he wouldnt have fought would be Couture which he would destroy.

Right. Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify the guy avoiding the #1 MMA promotion in the world.