UFC, etc.

[sscalltheway]

I had a bad choice of words. Your right they weren't cut but were on the way to, ecspecially Tim. Plus Arvloski started to appear on the undercard? If you ask me that's pushing the man out. They just couldn't hang with the UFC guys (which apparently suck compared to FEDOR THE ALMIGHTY)

 

[kobayashi93]

It's not that I think he's unbeatable. Arlovski was doing a good job until he got a little reckless.

I'm really not a even a fan. For heavyweights I prefer Randy, Nog, Cro Cop, Barnett, Carwin, and Velazquez. I just think Fedor is the best.

He resigned under the false premise that he was retiring. That's what he told the UFC: that he was no longer going to fight anymore. Which is why initially the UFC said it was fine. It wasn't until his real intentions were made public (that he just wanted out of his contract to fight Fedor for more money) that the UFC took legal action.

I don't recall that at all, but I'll take your word on it...

 

[Devil_666]

I don't recall that at all, but I'll take your word on it...

This was the initial story:

https://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=ki-couture101107

The story was broken by Brian Knapp of The Fight Network, which has a business relationship with Couture.

"I'm tired of swimming upstream at this stage with the management of the UFC," Couture told Knapp. "It only makes sense at this point in my career to fight Fedor Emelianenko, and since he’s now signed with another organization, I feel like it's time to resign and focus on my other endeavors."

Couture's retirement stunned the MMA world, but not apparently UFC officials. Couture had breakfast several weeks ago with UFC president Dana White and owner Lorenzo Fertitta in which he indicated he would retire if he didn't get a match with Emelianenko.

"He told us he is at a crossroads and he said, 'Who else is there for me to fight?" White said of the meeting, which he said occurred around the time of UFC 76, which was Sept. 22 in Anaheim, Calif.

"He told us, 'If I fight anyone but Fedor, then I'm just fighting for the money."

Which is funny, because who did Randy end up fighting? Brock Lesnar. NOT Fedor. lol.

Everything was cool at that point. It wasn't until later, after Randy Couture started refering to himself as a "Free Agent" and Randy made it clear that he WASN'T retired he was just done fighting in the UFC, that the UFC decided to sue him for breach of contract.

 

[NASEDO]

I think I know Devils real name, Dana White.

 

[kobayashi93]

Everything was cool at that point. It wasn't until later, after Randy Couture started refering to himself as a "Free Agent" and Randy made it clear that he WASN'T retired he was just done fighting in the UFC, that the UFC decided to sue him for breach of contract.

See that's a completely different story.

Where the hell was I during when this article hit? I thought he just asked for a release from contract. I remeber watching his press conference. I had nooooo idea he said he was retired again. ...and I call myself a Couture fan.

 

[NASEDO]

This was the initial story:

https://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=ki-couture101107



Which is funny, because who did Randy end up fighting? Brock Lesnar. NOT Fedor. lol.

Everything was cool at that point. It wasn't until later, after Randy Couture started refering to himself as a "Free Agent" and Randy made it clear that he WASN'T retired he was just done fighting in the UFC, that the UFC decided to sue him for breach of contract.

He couldn't fight Fedor, the UFC wouldn't let him. How about when the UFC had a court ruling to ban Extreme Couture from the IFl. Or when they blocked out Titos Clothing line from his Spike Fights, and even removing Tito from their Website like he never exisited. They let go Matt Lindland for wearing a sponsor at the weigh-ins. I like the UFC, Fedor should like at all options.

But Fedor is super popular overseas, I just don't understand why you can not give the guy alittle respect. He beat everybody.

 

[Natrix]

Ultimate Fighter finale bouts announced tonight:

Clay Guida vs Diego Sanchez

Nate Diaz vs Joe Stevenson

Anthony Johnson vs Matt Brown

 

[NASEDO]

Ultimate Fighter finale bouts announced tonight:

Clay Guida vs Diego Sanchez

Nate Diaz vs Joe Stevenson

Anthony Johnson vs Matt Brown

There good fights, I'm not a fan of Clay Guida, so hopefully Diego wins.

 

[Devil_666]

I think I know Devils real name, Dana White.

He couldn't fight Fedor, the UFC wouldn't let him.

No I meant that in the end, obviously it WAS all about the money because Randy said there was only one fight that he wanted and that made sense and that fight was against Fedor. And if Randy couldn't get that fight, then he didn't want to fight anymore. Because at that point, it would just be for the money.

Well when the UFC bumped up his pay, all that talk went out the window. Randy fought Brock, and now he's fighting Big Nog at UFC 101. So it WAS all about the money.

But Fedor is super popular overseas...

So is Bob Sapp.

He beat everybody.

Not even remotely close. Not in PRIDE FC, and not now either. Let's be honest: Fedor's big claim to fame is that he's technically undefeated. That's the #1 thing people bring up. EVEN when they're honest enough to admit that the competition he's faced throughout his entire career has been spotty. It's also the #1 thing people use in the whole P4P arguement too. Even though Anderson Silva and GSP have both been consistenly fighting and beating top 10 opponents in their respective weight divisions (or top 10 opponents in general like GSP vs. Penn who's the #1 LW in the world) people will still bring up their losses, and throw in how Fedor is technically undefeated so that must automatically make him better.

NO. If you never fight anyone relevant in your weight division, yeah there's a pretty good chance you'll stay undefeated.

 

[NASEDO]

Your crazy, you hate the guy for some reason, but who cares. And the spotty competition is crazy. And Claim to Fame....So he fought Garbage, heres his undefeated garbage fight list. And you should Apologize.

Nog 2x
Tim Sylvia
Arlovski
Coleman
Matt Lindland
Cro Cop
Heath Herring
Fujita
Sem Schilt
Babalu
Goodridge
Randleman

Thats Spotty, Are your nuts!!!! It takes one punch to end the fight. You Fedor haters shouldn't even watch the sport, to hate the guy and not give him respect is childish.

Well in other news, and I'm sick of the Fedor Talk, Dana White is talking about Anderson Silva vs GSP in Canada. He likes Canada because just like Fedor, Anderson Silva is not a PPV Draw. He figures he can sell 60,000 tickets, thats big.

But one more time, its strange the 2 best fighters in the World, Anderson and Fedor aren't big PPV draws.

I dont think GSP could hang with Anderson. Would love to see the fight. Theres alot of good fights coming.

 

[NASEDO]

No I meant that in the end, obviously it WAS all about the money because Randy said there was only one fight that he wanted and that made sense and that fight was against Fedor. And if Randy couldn't get that fight, then he didn't want to fight anymore. Because at that point, it would just be for the money.

Well when the UFC bumped up his pay, all that talk went out the window. Randy fought Brock, and now he's fighting Big Nog at UFC 101. So it WAS all about the money.


So is Bob Sapp.





Not even remotely close. Not in PRIDE FC, and not now either. Let's be honest: Fedor's big claim to fame is that he's technically undefeated. That's the #1 thing people bring up. EVEN when they're honest enough to admit that the competition he's faced throughout his entire career has been spotty. It's also the #1 thing people use in the whole P4P arguement too. Even though Anderson Silva and GSP have both been consistenly fighting and beating top 10 opponents in their respective weight divisions (or top 10 opponents in general like GSP vs. Penn who's the #1 LW in the world) people will still bring up their losses, and throw in how Fedor is technically undefeated so that must automatically make him better.

NO. If you never fight anyone relevant in your weight division, yeah there's a pretty good chance you'll stay undefeated.

I'm curious to see you P4P list. Top 5 is fine.

 

[Devil_666]

Nog 2x
Tim Sylvia
Arlovski
Coleman
Matt Lindland
Cro Cop
Heath Herring
Fujita
Sem Schilt
Babalu
Goodridge
Randleman

Thats Spotty, Are your nuts!!!!

Glad you posted that. Coleman should be x2 and you left out Arona and Mark Hunt. This is what I originally said so there's no confusion:

..the competition he's faced throughout his entire career has been spotty.

Obviously you're confused by what "spotty" means. And the reason I was glad that you posted that list is because you actually PROVED my statement by posting it up. Let's see the updated list:

Nog 2x (UD, UD)
Tim Sylvia (Submission)
Arlovski (KO)
Coleman 2x (Submission, Submission)
Matt Lindland (Submission)
Cro Cop (UD)
Heath Herring (TKO Cut)
Fujita (Submission)
Sem Schilt (UD)
Babalu (UD)
Goodridge (TKO)
Randleman (Submission)
Arona (UD)
Mark Hunt (Submission)

16 fights. Fedor is 16 - 0?
He isn't right? No, he's actually 30 - 1 - 0 right? That would mean he had 15 fights against people even YOU felt were irrelevant and not worth mentioning.

This is what I mean by "spotty".

Fighter | Record Before Fighting Fedor | Record Now

Martin Lazarov | 0 - 0 - 0 | 0 - 2 - 0
Levon Lagvilava | 0 - 1 - 0 | 0 - 2 - 0
Hiroya Takada | 0 - 0 - 0 | 1 - 3 - 0

Ricardo Arona = Decision Win

Tsuyoshi Kohsaka | 19 - 10 - 2 | 26 - 18 - 2
Mihail Apostolov | 0 - 0 - 0 | 0 - 1 - 0
Kerry Schall | 4 - 2 - 0 | 22 - 11 - 0

Renato Sobral = Decision Win

Ryushi Yanagisawa | 24 - 21 - 9 | 24 - 23 - 9
Lee Hasdell | 8 - 11 - 1 | 9 - 14 - 1
Chris Haseman | 18 - 11 - 0 | 20 - 16 - 0

Semmy Schilt = Decision Win

-------------------------------------------

You seriously don't see a pattern!? 3 Submissions/(T)KO Wins against cans followed by a DECISION win against a credible opponent. Notice how I use the word "credible" and not "relevant"? Because Arona, Babalu and Schilt weren't relevant to the HW division back THEN and have NEVER been relevant in the HW division. EVER. Minus the credible fighters (Arona, Babalu and Schilt) all of Fedor's other opponents in this first part of his record either had zero MMA experience or had/damn near had a losing record.

But let's continue...

-------------------------------------------

Heath Herring = TKO (Cut)
Big Nog = DECISION

Egidijus Valavicius | 4 - 2 - 0 | 13 - 7 - 0

Kazuyuki Fujita = Submission
Gary Goodridge = TKO

Yuji Nagata 0 - 1 - 0 | 0 - 2 - 0

-------------------------------------------

Seriously? Fedor was 16 - 1 - 0 and he
fights a guy who's 0 - 1 - 0!? Must be nice.

So here we see a similar pattern: 2 relevant fights, followed by a can, followed by 2 credible fights (Fujita and Goodridge were not Top 10 during those fights and have never been Top 10 HW fighters) followed by a gift fight with a guy who's only MMA fight was against Cro Cop where he was KO'ed in :21 seconds.

-------------------------------------------

Mark Coleman = Submission
Kevin Randleman = Submission

Naoya Ogawa | 7 - 0 - 0 | 7 - 2 - 0

Big Nog = NC
Big Nog = DECISION

Tsuyoshi Kohsaka | 24 - 15 - 2 | 26 - 18 - 2

Mirko Filipovic = DECISION

-------------------------------------------

Again.. same pattern. 2 credible fights (After Coleman lost to Big Nog by Submission he didn't fight for over 2 years until he fought Don Frye (irrelevant to the HW division at that time). THEN he fought Fedor for the first time. Credible? I guess. Relevant? Hell No. As for Randleman: When he fought Cro Cop (before his fight with Fedor) he hadn't had a HW match in over 3 years. Definitely not relevant to the HW division.
Then a can: Fedor was 19 - 1 - 0. His opponent: 7 - 0 - 0. With his "biggest" win against Gary Goodridge. Then 2 relevant fights with Big Nog: 1 NC 1 Decision Win. Then a can again: rematch for Fedor's only *technical* loss. Followed by a relevant fight with Cro Cop.

-------------------------------------------

Wagner da Conceicao Martins (Zulu) | 3 - 0 - 0 | 5 - 6 - 0

Mark Coleman = Submission
Mark Hunt = Submission
Matt Lindland = Submission

Hong Man Choi | 1 - 0 - 0 | 1 - 2 - 0

Tim Sylvia = Submission
Andre Arlovski = KO

-------------------------------------------

More of the same. First a can. Then 3 credible but completely irrelevant fights (Coleman was irrelevant, even more so at that point. Mark Hunt was irrelevant in the HW division, and some people wrongly state that he was Top 10. lmao. He was 5 - 2 - 0 before his fight with Fedor with only 2 notable wins: Cro Cop (Split Decision) and Wanderlei Silva (Split Decision). Obviously Silva was a LHW (or in PRIDE FC a MW) so that fight was irrelevant to the HW rankings. So the only relevant win Mark Hunt had in MMA in the HW division was a split decision against Cro Cop. And he also had just lost to Barnett by submission BEFORE fighting Fedor. So I have no clue how he could've been Top 10!? And not only that.. he's one of the few people I know of who LOST and THEN got a title shot next fight!!!! His fight with Fedor was a title match. Matt Lindland = MW/LHW. First and only HW fight. Completely irrelevant to the HW division. Hong Man Choi was 1 - 0 - 0 and obviously completely irrelevant to the HW division. Then 2 relevant fights with Sylvia and Arlovski.

Now let's look at your list again, minus all the irrelevant fights that meant nothing to the HW division:

Heath Herring | TKO | 11/24/2002
Big Nog | DECISION | 03/16/2003
Big Nog | No Contest | 08/15/2004
Big Nog | DECISION | 12/31/2004
Cro Cop | DECISION | 08/28/2005
Tim Sylvia | Submission | 07/19/2008
Arlovski | KO | 01/24/2009

Obviously not as impressive when you filter out all the cans and irrelevant fights. From 6/23/2002 to 12/31/2006 while Fedor was in PRIDE FC he fought 3 credible and relevant fighters in the HW division (Big Nog 3 times). Just 3. And that's in over 4 years of competition! And after his fight with Mirko Cro Cop he doesn't fight another credible and relevant HW until 07/19/2008. Almost 3 years!

That's the definition of "spotty". And in the context of fighting, that's a relevant/credible opponent here and there sandwiched between fights with cans, credible BUT completely irrelevant HW's i.e. unranked fighters and even a non-HW.

I'm curious to see you P4P list. Top 5 is fine.

1. Anderson Silva
2. GSP
3. Fedor
4. Miguel Torres
5. B.J. Penn

If GSP beats Alves he'll be #1 on my list with him and Silva switching positions.

 

[kobayashi93]

Well in other news, and I'm sick of the Fedor Talk, Dana White is talking about Anderson Silva vs GSP in Canada. He likes Canada because just like Fedor, Anderson Silva is not a PPV Draw. He figures he can sell 60,000 tickets, thats big.

But one more time, its strange the 2 best fighters in the World, Anderson and Fedor aren't big PPV draws.

I dont think GSP could hang with Anderson. Would love to see the fight. Theres alot of good fights coming.

I just hope GSP is still champ if they fight. I'll still be interested if he is not, but it wouldn't be the same. Imo Anderson's size helps him stuff GSP's take downs, and then it gets ugly for George from there.

Word is the UFC game is pretty fun...

 

[Devil_666]

I just hope GSP is still champ if they fight. I'll still be interested if he is not, but it wouldn't be the same.

Yeah.. or at least if he's not champ if he has a couple wins before they fight. It would suck if Alves beats GSP and then GSP's very next fight is vs. Silva. The appeal would be gone if that were the case imo.

 

[915stag51]

I think GSP is gonna go right through Alves, I just have a gut feeling, GSP has been lookin good lately and seems focused...

 

[kobayashi93]

It's a tough one to call for me. GSP hasn't taken on a striker at Alves' current level imo. Plus Alves' take down defense has looked good, I'm pretty sure GSP's gameplan will be to get the fight to the ground asap. Maybe not though...

 

[915stag51]

It's a tough one to call for me. GSP hasn't taken on a striker at Alves' current level imo. Plus Alves' take down defense has looked good, I'm pretty sure GSP's gameplan will be to get the fight to the ground asap. Maybe not though...

Alves striking wasnt all that impressive against Koscheck, and his conditioning looked iffy...

 

[NASEDO]

Glad you posted that. Coleman should be x2 and you left out Arona and Mark Hunt. This is what I originally said so there's no confusion:



Obviously you're confused by what "spotty" means. And the reason I was glad that you posted that list is because you actually PROVED my statement by posting it up. Let's see the updated list:

Nog 2x (UD, UD)
Tim Sylvia (Submission)
Arlovski (KO)
Coleman 2x (Submission, Submission)
Matt Lindland (Submission)
Cro Cop (UD)
Heath Herring (TKO Cut)
Fujita (Submission)
Sem Schilt (UD)
Babalu (UD)
Goodridge (TKO)
Randleman (Submission)
Arona (UD)
Mark Hunt (Submission)

16 fights. Fedor is 16 - 0?
He isn't right? No, he's actually 30 - 1 - 0 right? That would mean he had 15 fights against people even YOU felt were irrelevant and not worth mentioning.

This is what I mean by "spotty".

Fighter | Record Before Fighting Fedor | Record Now

Martin Lazarov | 0 - 0 - 0 | 0 - 2 - 0
Levon Lagvilava | 0 - 1 - 0 | 0 - 2 - 0
Hiroya Takada | 0 - 0 - 0 | 1 - 3 - 0

Ricardo Arona = Decision Win

Tsuyoshi Kohsaka | 19 - 10 - 2 | 26 - 18 - 2
Mihail Apostolov | 0 - 0 - 0 | 0 - 1 - 0
Kerry Schall | 4 - 2 - 0 | 22 - 11 - 0

Renato Sobral = Decision Win

Ryushi Yanagisawa | 24 - 21 - 9 | 24 - 23 - 9
Lee Hasdell | 8 - 11 - 1 | 9 - 14 - 1
Chris Haseman | 18 - 11 - 0 | 20 - 16 - 0

Semmy Schilt = Decision Win

-------------------------------------------

You seriously don't see a pattern!? 3 Submissions/(T)KO Wins against cans followed by a DECISION win against a credible opponent. Notice how I use the word "credible" and not "relevant"? Because Arona, Babalu and Schilt weren't relevant to the HW division back THEN and have NEVER been relevant in the HW division. EVER. Minus the credible fighters (Arona, Babalu and Schilt) all of Fedor's other opponents in this first part of his record either had zero MMA experience or had/damn near had a losing record.

But let's continue...

-------------------------------------------

Heath Herring = TKO (Cut)
Big Nog = DECISION

Egidijus Valavicius | 4 - 2 - 0 | 13 - 7 - 0

Kazuyuki Fujita = Submission
Gary Goodridge = TKO

Yuji Nagata 0 - 1 - 0 | 0 - 2 - 0

-------------------------------------------

Seriously? Fedor was 16 - 1 - 0 and he
fights a guy who's 0 - 1 - 0!? Must be nice.

So here we see a similar pattern: 2 relevant fights, followed by a can, followed by 2 credible fights (Fujita and Goodridge were not Top 10 during those fights and have never been Top 10 HW fighters) followed by a gift fight with a guy who's only MMA fight was against Cro Cop where he was KO'ed in :21 seconds.

-------------------------------------------

Mark Coleman = Submission
Kevin Randleman = Submission

Naoya Ogawa | 7 - 0 - 0 | 7 - 2 - 0

Big Nog = NC
Big Nog = DECISION

Tsuyoshi Kohsaka | 24 - 15 - 2 | 26 - 18 - 2

Mirko Filipovic = DECISION

-------------------------------------------

Again.. same pattern. 2 credible fights (After Coleman lost to Big Nog by Submission he didn't fight for over 2 years until he fought Don Frye (irrelevant to the HW division at that time). THEN he fought Fedor for the first time. Credible? I guess. Relevant? Hell No. As for Randleman: When he fought Cro Cop (before his fight with Fedor) he hadn't had a HW match in over 3 years. Definitely not relevant to the HW division.
Then a can: Fedor was 19 - 1 - 0. His opponent: 7 - 0 - 0. With his "biggest" win against Gary Goodridge. Then 2 relevant fights with Big Nog: 1 NC 1 Decision Win. Then a can again: rematch for Fedor's only *technical* loss. Followed by a relevant fight with Cro Cop.

-------------------------------------------

Wagner da Conceicao Martins (Zulu) | 3 - 0 - 0 | 5 - 6 - 0

Mark Coleman = Submission
Mark Hunt = Submission
Matt Lindland = Submission

Hong Man Choi | 1 - 0 - 0 | 1 - 2 - 0

Tim Sylvia = Submission
Andre Arlovski = KO

-------------------------------------------

More of the same. First a can. Then 3 credible but completely irrelevant fights (Coleman was irrelevant, even more so at that point. Mark Hunt was irrelevant in the HW division, and some people wrongly state that he was Top 10. lmao. He was 5 - 2 - 0 before his fight with Fedor with only 2 notable wins: Cro Cop (Split Decision) and Wanderlei Silva (Split Decision). Obviously Silva was a LHW (or in PRIDE FC a MW) so that fight was irrelevant to the HW rankings. So the only relevant win Mark Hunt had in MMA in the HW division was a split decision against Cro Cop. And he also had just lost to Barnett by submission BEFORE fighting Fedor. So I have no clue how he could've been Top 10!? And not only that.. he's one of the few people I know of who LOST and THEN got a title shot next fight!!!! His fight with Fedor was a title match. Matt Lindland = MW/LHW. First and only HW fight. Completely irrelevant to the HW division. Hong Man Choi was 1 - 0 - 0 and obviously completely irrelevant to the HW division. Then 2 relevant fights with Sylvia and Arlovski.

Now let's look at your list again, minus all the irrelevant fights that meant nothing to the HW division:

Heath Herring | TKO | 11/24/2002
Big Nog | DECISION | 03/16/2003
Big Nog | No Contest | 08/15/2004
Big Nog | DECISION | 12/31/2004
Cro Cop | DECISION | 08/28/2005
Tim Sylvia | Submission | 07/19/2008
Arlovski | KO | 01/24/2009

Obviously not as impressive when you filter out all the cans and irrelevant fights. From 6/23/2002 to 12/31/2006 while Fedor was in PRIDE FC he fought 3 credible and relevant fighters in the HW division (Big Nog 3 times). Just 3. And that's in over 4 years of competition! And after his fight with Mirko Cro Cop he doesn't fight another credible and relevant HW until 07/19/2008. Almost 3 years!

That's the definition of "spotty". And in the context of fighting, that's a relevant/credible opponent here and there sandwiched between fights with cans, credible BUT completely irrelevant HW's i.e. unranked fighters and even a non-HW.



1. Anderson Silva
2. GSP
3. Fedor
4. Miguel Torres
5. B.J. Penn

If GSP beats Alves he'll be #1 on my list with him and Silva switching positions.

You win, I'm not reading all of that, so your right, I'm wrong and every fighter, GSP, Penn, Bas Rutten we dont know nothing.

 

[Devil_666]

You win, I'm not reading all of that, so your right, I'm wrong and every fighter, GSP, Penn, Bas Rutten we dont know nothing.

Not "every" fighter. That's an exaggeration. Yes a lot of fighters praise Fedor, but not "every" fighter. Marcus Davis (UFC WW) has said the same thing as me in the past for example.

Fans "talk up" his opponents all the time, but in reality if you take a subjective look at his record you can see it's not all that great. Not even remotely close.

 

[Natrix]

How can a quadruple amputee legitimately fight in MMA??

https://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_...rd_road_to_MMA_debut&prov=mmajunkie&type=lgns