URGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGENT!!

[stnmikita]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Are you Moe's new account?

I sincerely hope soon to be entering into doing customs (heads and clothing) for members of this board, and I'd like to pass comment, although I haven't bought anything from this Moe fella. There seems to be a consensus building to treat all customisers as potential thieves, to be on the safe side. If that's the system in place by the time I get my ball rolling, then so be it, but I'd much prefer to be able to sculpt and sew knowing I'm definitely not doing it for nothing, that people "interested" have not changed their minds. If a customiser is to embark on a project (with all its patterns to make, stuff to organise and buy) I think the standard form is, you pay up front. Being forced to be paid in piecework stages because of a fluke rotten apple is not only irritating but a bit insulting. There are ways of smelling scam artists long before they accrue a massive pile of loot, which are mostly common sense. Personally, I like to post WIPs--lots of them: surely they're a decent assurance? Just my 2c.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

If a customiser is to embark on a project (with all its patterns to make, stuff to organise and buy) I think the standard form is, you pay up front. Being forced to be paid in piecework stages because of a fluke rotten apple is not only irritating but a bit insulting.

No, standard form is not "pay up front" in the creative world, you get paid after the work is completed.. I don't know where in the world a person gets paid before performing the work. In a 9-5 office job, you get paid at the END of every two weeks, AFTER you've done the work. When you have surgery, you pay AFTER the surgery's been done. When you contact someone to build a web site, you pay AFTER the site has been completed. When I take my car into the shop, I pay AFTER the work has been completed.

And customizers flaking out is not a fluke. As mentioned numerous times, Moe was not a fluke, he was just one more rotten apple in the barrel, that already has 5 or 6 decayed, shriveled up apples.

 

[Doom Saber]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

I sincerely hope soon to be entering into doing customs (heads and clothing) for members of this board, and I'd like to pass comment, although I haven't bought anything from this Moe fella. There seems to be a consensus building to treat all customisers as potential thieves, to be on the safe side. If that's the system in place by the time I get my ball rolling, then so be it, but I'd much prefer to be able to sculpt and sew knowing I'm definitely not doing it for nothing, that people "interested" have not changed their minds. If a customiser is to embark on a project (with all its patterns to make, stuff to organise and buy) I think the standard form is, you pay up front. Being forced to be paid in piecework stages because of a fluke rotten apple is not only irritating but a bit insulting. There are ways of smelling scam artists long before they accrue a massive pile of loot, which are mostly common sense. Personally, I like to post WIPs--lots of them: surely they're a decent assurance? Just my 2c.

Fangs of Death, this isn't the first time that such a thing has happened. It happens every year. It is part of the reason why deposits were removed from the forums; Chris Howes scammed a lot of people by accepting around 20 projects to sculpt and cast heads.

I think the issue with selling customs is that a lot of people with a lack of business sense enters the 1/6 custom world to make money. Without any discipline, these artists take up too much too much demand and money at one setting. They also spend the money they receive up front so by the time that they are halfway into the project, they might used up all the funds on other things.

The few artists who are honest and still around take commission once in a while. For instance, Small Studios and Silent Surfer both commissions every blue moon since they know their workload. They are also smart not to waste the money on other things before they finish a commission.

In all honestly, I believe that quite a few people who aren't doing customs for sale and getting into selling customs see it as an opportunity to make bank since the product can be sold in the hundreds for something so small that would be sell for pennies if done in another scale. That said, I think these people get into it without fully being aware of the reality of making customs. They then end up screwing people over because of how overwhelming and hard work it can be producing customs.

A lot of people who do end up doing customs and are still around do it not because of the money, but more because they have fun doing it. I am sure they don't expect to make heads solely to sell. they do it because they want the heads. Selling it to others is to share with the SSF members their work. Take Spencer for instance. He sculpts heads he wants and sells them for $45 afterwards. If you are thinking to sell customs to make money first, you might want to sell your wares on ebay. I am sure people like Small Studios and Spencer can tell you that they don't do this as a full time job and more as a hobby.

 

[Doom Saber]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

No, standard form is not "pay up front" in the creative world, you get paid after the work is completed.. I don't know where in the world a person gets paid before performing the work. In a 9-5 office job, you get paid at the END of every two weeks, AFTER you've done the work. When you have surgery, you pay AFTER the surgery's been done. When you contact someone to build a web site, you pay AFTER the site has been completed. When I take my car into the shop, I pay AFTER the work has been completed.

And customizers flaking out is not a fluke. As mentioned numerous times, Moe was not a fluke, he was just one more rotten apple in the barrel, that already has 5 or 6 decayed, shriveled up apples.

People get it this mentality from going to this site

 

[Fangs of Death]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Fangs of Death, this isn't the first time that such a thing has happened. It happens every year. It is part of the reason why deposits were removed from the forums; Chris Howes scammed a lot of people by accepting around 20 projects to sculpt and cast heads.

A lot of people who do end up doing customs and are still around do it not because of the money, but more because they have fun doing it. I am sure they don't expect to make heads solely to sell. they do it because they want the heads. Selling it to others is to share with the SSF members their work. Take Spencer for instance. He sculpts heads he wants and sells them for $45 afterwards. If you are thinking to sell customs to make money first, you might want to sell your wares on ebay. I am sure people like Small Studios and Spencer can tell you that they don't do this as a full time job and more as a hobby.

Wasn't aware of the repeated scammings, I do apologise. Shouldn't be surprised I suppose--if one gets intoxicated with the payments coming in I suppose you can overcommit and get into trouble with it--particularly if you set yourself up as middleman, with no actual work to do.
Didn't actually mean to show my hand this early, just got dragged into the debate about treating every customiser as a potential criminal. I suppose there do need to be safeguards. Personally I would prefer the banker route--some well established member holds the residual funds until delivery, instead of making people take payment in bits. All I'm saying is, it's a shame to have to consider putting mostly upstanding citizens through a scum filter because you can't think of another way to do it.
Any more snipey replies and I'll retire from this thread, with apologies.

 

[pnh810]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

I paid $144 for two green henley shirts on december 25 2012. I only received one. After various pm's telling me he was going to send it out, still never received th second one.

 

[mightyq]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

what is amazing is how nobody talked amongest eachother and figured the guy out, it's why he was able to go as long as he did. maybe if 2-3 guys talked and said yeah me too, i am waiting for 6 months for this or that, then maybe he could have been outed sooner,a lthough i think as soon as the money was sent it was gone. many more victims could have been spared.

 

[Ebeneezer Jones]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

I can only speak for myself, but i never said anything about Moe because if i did i know i would have gotten about ten or twenty pages of backlash.

People would have stuck up for him with his so called fantastic reputation and stand up guy thing.

It can be very cliquey around here.

 

[agonistes86]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

I can only speak for myself, but i never said anything about Moe because if i did i know i would have gotten about ten or twenty pages of backlash.

People would have stuck up for him with his so called fantastic reputation and stand up guy thing.

It can be very cliquey around here.

Fully agreed. There seems to be a strong spiral of silence on here when it comes to customizers. There's always a huge backlash when somebody posts anything negative about a known customizer, even if it's warranted from an unbiased perspective. The first time I remember it happening was with Les Walker, and look how that turned out.
And how often has this happened on here by now? From the top of my head, there are: Les Walker, DarkArtist, Chris Howes, SovereignStudios, Blindvoyeur, mista3504 (though not a customizer), Darko, Moe, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Every single time, people react by saying that something has to change in the system customs are handled here, only to invest $1000 with the next customizer. Just look at what's happening now. Everybody is running to Geewhiz customs, putting in hundreds and hundreds of dollars with them. I know they are well established, and I fully trust them to do the right thing as they seem very organized and conscientious. But I hope they don't bite off more than they can chew now, since they will be flooded with new requests.

 

[galactiboy]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

what is amazing is how nobody talked amongest eachother and figured the guy out, it's why he was able to go as long as he did. maybe if 2-3 guys talked and said yeah me too, i am waiting for 6 months for this or that, then maybe he could have been outed sooner,a lthough i think as soon as the money was sent it was gone. many more victims could have been spared.

Yep, that's the part that gets me every time this happens. Many of us had some concerns, but no one ever sat down and compared notes.

I can only speak for myself, but i never said anything about Moe because if i did i know i would have gotten about ten or twenty pages of backlash.

People would have stuck up for him with his so called fantastic reputation and stand up guy thing.

It can be very cliquey around here.

I agree... this is something I want to figure out how best to address. I'm talking with Dave about a system that would allow for a contact person to register complaints/concerns w/o it having to be made publicly. I think the fear of backlash (either never getting your stuff, getting subpar stuff, or members jumping down your throat) prevents open dialog and has probably been a contributing factor to just about every single major scam we've had.

 

[agonistes86]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

I agree... this is something I want to figure out how best to address. I'm talking with Dave about a system that would allow for a contact person to register complaints/concerns w/o it having to be made publicly. I think the fear of backlash (either never getting your stuff, getting subpar stuff, or members jumping down your throat) prevents open dialog and has probably been a contributing factor to just about every single major scam we've had.

That sounds like a very good idea.

 

[Spiderforever 7]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Yep, that's the part that gets me every time this happens. Many of us had some concerns, but no one ever sat down and compared notes.



I agree... this is something I want to figure out how best to address. I'm talking with Dave about a system that would allow for a contact person to register complaints/concerns w/o it having to be made publicly. I think the fear of backlash (either never getting your stuff, getting subpar stuff, or members jumping down your throat) prevents open dialog and has probably been a contributing factor to just about every single major scam we've had.

Agreed,
I remember thinking about asking other members about the delays/Moe back in March.. But because I was still very new here (that and the fact that Moe would tell me) "be patient bro, in the customs world delays are common, I got you". The fact that I didn't know kept me from going public..

 

[Fangs of Death]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Galactiboy--yep. An ombudsman system you might call it. This can be prevented, before it snowballs into anything serious then.

 

[Ebeneezer Jones]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Yep, that's the part that gets me every time this happens. Many of us had some concerns, but no one ever sat down and compared notes.



I agree... this is something I want to figure out how best to address. I'm talking with Dave about a system that would allow for a contact person to register complaints/concerns w/o it having to be made publicly. I think the fear of backlash (either never getting your stuff, getting subpar stuff, or members jumping down your throat) prevents open dialog and has probably been a contributing factor to just about every single major scam we've had.

Great idea's.

There is also the PM thing. Most things are done via the PM system, i.e. people's names get slandered for not very good, or completely biased opinions, because someone takes a dislike. Nobody seems to have the brains or the gumption to stand up and be an individual with their own thought's anymore.

 

[tbay]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Yep, that's the part that gets me every time this happens. Many of us had some concerns, but no one ever sat down and compared notes.



I agree... this is something I want to figure out how best to address. I'm talking with Dave about a system that would allow for a contact person to register complaints/concerns w/o it having to be made publicly. I think the fear of backlash (either never getting your stuff, getting subpar stuff, or members jumping down your throat) prevents open dialog and has probably been a contributing factor to just about every single major scam we've had.

I like this idea GB. People really do fear backlash, I can't remember the thread but there was a customizer who was running a similar ponzi scheme and sent a freak a pm that he would be getting his items last in retaliation for asking for an update! The fear of the backlash adds to some freaks ganging up on those that ask for an update or voice concerns as they want to stay on the customizer's (or sleazy middleman's) "good side."

Further, ANY freak should be allowed to voice their opinion in this thread if Moe returns. Historically freaks not "associated" with the scam are not allowed to comment in the thread. This is just ridiculous and encourages the "fade away" as it takes the power of the community away. The scam artists just ends up having to deal with freaks that are scared of retaliation again so he gets off the hook.

Look at the history of these scams, people that complain get their stuff but the guys at the bottom have no leverage as they have to beat the drum all by themselves since all the freaks that want to stand up to this person are not allowed to even post in the thread!

Since all of the freaks that were trying to stick up for that person are now banned from the thread the guys at the bottom of the ponzi scheme have absolutely no power.

I like how this thread is being managed right now GB and my hats are off to you, however I do worry that it will go down the same road as it has in the past, meaning the voice of the community gets silenced and the customizer only has to deal with freaks that are fearing retaliation which only encourages the fade away (every single one of these guys have been allowed to fade away). This is a community, freaks should be allowed to stand up for each other.

 

[Doom Saber]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Fully agreed. There seems to be a strong spiral of silence on here when it comes to customizers. There's always a huge backlash when somebody posts anything negative about a known customizer, even if it's warranted from an unbiased perspective. The first time I remember it happening was with Les Walker, and look how that turned out.
And how often has this happened on here by now? From the top of my head, there are: Les Walker, DarkArtist, Chris Howes, SovereignStudios, Blindvoyeur, mista3504 (though not a customizer), Darko, Moe, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Every single time, people react by saying that something has to change in the system customs are handled here, only to invest $1000 with the next customizer. Just look at what's happening now. Everybody is running to Geewhiz customs, putting in hundreds and hundreds of dollars with them. I know they are well established, and I fully trust them to do the right thing as they seem very organized and conscientious. But I hope they don't bite off more than they can chew now, since they will be flooded with new requests.

Yeah, that is a big concern. One of my issues with the forum is how some ppl praise and encourage the spending of hundreds or dollars on customs based on characters from popular and obscure movies alike. What I mean is that a person here might want, for instance, a headsculpt of Wang Chi from Big Trouble in Little China after seeing an amazing headsculpt made by a customizer, who happens to sculpt the head for having a genuine fondness of the character. Soon a lot of people jump on the Wang Chi bandwagon wanting clothing and accessories for the character. This in turns causes other customizers like Moe to open shop and accept orders for $300 dollars Wang Chi shirts and $500 dollars Wang Chi pants. These ppl, who have no issues paying huge amount of cash for 1/6 outfits, send him the money all at once. The clothing customizer, who doesn't stop the request of orders, gets so overwhelmed by the order that he ends up screwing ppl out of a lot of money.

I think the fault in all this is not solely on the customizer, but also the buyers who spends money on the thousands without any hesitation on any flavor of the month characters, puts in a request for accessories and outfits of 1 different characters to a customizer, and get angry when other ppl criticize the customizer's turn around on a product. The mentality of having to have every customs on the SSF board and pouring thousands of dollars onto a single customizer has to be reviewed here. Not to be mean, but I am sure there are a few forum members who were screwed by 4 or more of the customizers you listed.

 

[greatlakes6]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

Wasn't aware of the repeated scammings, I do apologise. Shouldn't be surprised I suppose--if one gets intoxicated with the payments coming in I suppose you can overcommit and get into trouble with it--particularly if you set yourself up as middleman, with no actual work to do.
Didn't actually mean to show my hand this early, just got dragged into the debate about treating every customiser as a potential criminal. I suppose there do need to be safeguards. Personally I would prefer the banker route--some well established member holds the residual funds until delivery, instead of making people take payment in bits. All I'm saying is, it's a shame to have to consider putting mostly upstanding citizens through a scum filter because you can't think of another way to do it.
Any more snipey replies and I'll retire from this thread, with apologies.

An escrow account isn't a bad idea.

 

[mightyq]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

I have spoken with gee wiz about taking on all of these new orders, and if ther workload is too heavy? I have been assued they they have the ability to hire more tailors whenever needed to handle just about any project, it also may add a few extra weeks to the final job completeion. instead of 4-6 weeks, you might get 6-8..but... this would be rare, the runs would have to be huge, like 50+ and his plate would have to be very very full with other projects. the fact they can hire more tailors to take on workload is very very good news. i think most in the past that gone bad never had the ability to do this, so once the work got out of control the fun stopped and it was better for them to turn bad and leave than come up with all the money they took and spent.

 

[stnmikita]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

I have spoken with gee wiz about taking on all of these new orders, and if ther workload is too heavy? I have been assued they they have the ability to hire more tailors whenever needed to handle just about any project, it also may add a few extra weeks to the final job completeion. instead of 4-6 weeks, you might get 6-8..but... this would be rare, the runs would have to be huge, like 50+ and his plate would have to be very very full with other projects. the fact they can hire more tailors to take on workload is very very good news. i think most in the past that gone bad never had the ability to do this, so once the work got out of control the fun stopped and it was better for them to turn bad and leave than come up with all the money they took and spent.

Hopefully this influx of orders allows them to hire on some of the tailors that they had to let go after Moe's orders never materialized.

 

[mightyq]

Re: UEGENT!!-anybody who is owed clothing from moe's production's must read this-URGE

i think a new rule should be in place if you want to do business on here. if your a customizer you do not and should not need the full amount of said custom up front to start a project. if you ever watch guy's like robbie jones, he only gets a deposit, and when done ask's for the balance wich is more than 50% in most cases. for example; i paid a guy to make me some 1/6 th leaves, like from a tree. lol...i paid $45, he canceled the run, would you know i could not get a mere $45 back from this guy!!!! i had to accept a custom made stand instead. he said he didnt have the money, he is still on here taking hundreds of dollars in orders. i for one would never hire this guy or buy, regardless. if he could not give me back $45, what would happen on a run with mayBe hundereds or thousands involved.

also there are some good guys on here that have never screwed people over, NEVER!!! yet with some of them i have paid for commissions and so far its been 2 1/2 years and still have not seen them completed. THIS IS DOWNRIGHT RIDICULIOUS!!!!, they guy has never ever taken a dime from anyone, yet all this time later who suffers, ME ME ME, and if i would say something i would be run out of town with fire, swords, and ax's.....

some of these customizers think they could do no worng on here because the high praise that is shoved into them by us groupie's,,,,,,OMG thats the best paint app i ever seen!! please take all my money,,,,,,,,,,,,,or sweet jesus,,, thats the best custom figure i have eever seen, please take my first born now,,,,,or how about,,,seriously that is the best 1/6th suit i ever seen, please take all of my money........they feel this way because we make them feel this way...how could they not have an EGO, and feel like they could do whatever and they would get a pass!!! ,,,,,,we thank the living crap out of these guys making things for us, wich is well deserved and nice. but it boarders on naseau,, and its all our fault...we are ALL guilty of doing this in the customs game.....the high praise and king annointing.

automatticly because they have this god givin skill, we also give them the title of the best ever guy, would never go bad, etc etc etc.... to be honest there are a few that are not nice....and we have know idea if they would ever go bad....yet,, her we all come, sedning them friend requests because well, we want to be friends with him, because maybe he now will take my commisions the more i praise him and such. c'mon you see it all the time, and most are guity of it, including ME. what scares me is how everyone said all of these things to MOE, he has 100% feedback, the post count, had it all... yet he turned bad and as bad as you can get. is there right now another moe on here??? scary to think so....i will say 98% of the customizers on here are good people and just want to enjoy the hobby like us and make some money to pay for their habit's also. nothing wrong with that. yet there are that 2 % that are probably headed down that bad break up road that is all too familiar.

its time for me to change the way i give up my money. time to call out who is not doing right by me regardless of who doesnt like it. its also time for the board to change, for the mod's to hear the complaint and if in the favor of the customer chime in and get the hounds off their back if it is happening in a thread. thats the main resaon most do not speak up, hear it all the time. I WILL BECOME MY OWN VICTIM TO THE SAID CUSTOMIZERS FAN BOYS. this cannot happen. because being silent is why this happnes to get as big as it gets, read this thread, same thing, its been so and so months and broken promises, nothing from moe, yet nobody made a thread or went to a mod over this. we still seen a few defend moe on here because he didnt do this to them,,, WHAT? no but can you read what he has done to your fellow freaks.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,THINGS NEED TO CHANGE ON HERE,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we need to peak up more often and get help when needed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


my disclaimer; i am gulity of all that i have wrote on here period.