Statue Weta Rivendell Environment

[The Josh]

I'm in the fan boy camp? I love the books even more than I love the movies. Nobody should take you seriously after this post. Off to ignore you go.

 

[cstojano]

Christopher Lee said that there were good changes and bad changes. A good change was having the Uruk-Hai fight on-screen in stead of Aragorn coming across a dying Boromir after the bad guys had run off, as happens in the book. In a dramatic medium like cinema, you need to see these moments as it adds to the visual medium. Creating Lurtz gave the uruks a leader, and simply a good, if brief, 'boss fight' for the end of the movie - giving the film a satisfying climax for the viewer as the bad guy - minor though he might be - is defeated. I also like how 'Lurtz' is a simplified homage to 'Lugburz', which is what the orcs call Barad-Dur
So i see why he's popular, but i agree also that it's unfortunate people can't find as much love in a statue that's non-movie based. Maybe if it was in colour..... i certainly prefer colour, but the bronze should give it a more classical feel. Maybe the problems with the base is what has hampered the line, not the piece itself or collectors tastes.

I think the problems were there before the bases. We all pre-ordered with the original bases which were beautiful and the piece still didn't sell out.

 

[cstojano]

I'm in the fan boy camp? I love the books even more than I love the movies. Nobody should take you seriously after this post. Off to ignore you go.

I'm confused I guess as to why I shouldn't be taken seriously. But whatever Josh.

 

[FrodoEyes]

I always thought that a bit of a petty option for the boards.

As for the bronzes, in particular the faux-bronzes, no they didn't sell out before the base switch, but maybe, once people started to get them in hand, they would have been sold out by now if the bases were as originally described.

 

[cstojano]

I always thought that a bit of a petty option for the boards.

As for the bronzes, in particular the faux-bronzes, no they didn't sell out before the base switch, but maybe, once people started to get them in hand, they would have been sold out by now if the bases were as originally described.

That I can agree with. And since we agree you can continue to not ignore button me. Petty? Immature is more like it. The option exists for trolls and general flame wars not for people you disagree with, or so I thought.

 

[The Josh]

Its not meant to be petty. Just sometimes you realize there are folks who have opinions really not worth reading. I choose to use it thats all. I just shouldn't be an ass and say it out loud so to speak.

Now, on the topic at hand the base issue I'm sure made people less likely to order. Its a real shame because the pieces themselves looked great at Comic-Con.

 

[VASith]

Woodsy

Most of my posts about this line are testy and frustrated but mostly because I just don't understand the vast majority of collectors. I am coming to accept this - people will pay 400+ dollars for a Lurtz PF (a total BS character and not a very exciting or compelling one) but won't pay that for the Howe pieces because they want things from a movie. I'm not disagreeing with you on perceived value, clearly the masses have spoken. I also can't complain about the FB line because it saved me 1500 dollars (and soon a total of 3000) because it allowed Weta to lower the bronze costs. To be honest, part of my frustration is somewhat tied up in the money I have here, not that I regret it and ever plan to sell, but its always good to have an exit strategy if need be.

I know you think certain wetaphiles villify you. I don't know the history. It does seem that Weta has a bias against it within the broader hobby though - people seem to eat up most of what SS throws at them.

Just because you don't like the character Lurtz doesn't mean that other people don't like him. Maybe people just like the statue and the way it looks and don't care one way or the other about the character.

And as I said earlier, many people don't equate Howe's work with the LOTR movie. He far more known as a fantasy artist. Yes Smaug is nice looking but it isn't the Smaug that will be shown in the movie (more likely than not.) You shouldn't get mad at people for what they want to collect.

 

[willocrew]

I think weta needs to be careful with how they want to market some of their more premium lines.

Weta needs to decide very early on which of their lines are meant to be the flagship ultra high end stuff and which is going to be the bread and butter stuff. Once they have made this decision, they need to then balance the edition size and price accordingly.

For the high end stuff, the edition size really has to be reflective of the price. If I'm going to pay 5000usd for a bronze statue, im going to be quite disappointed if its not sold out and the remaining quota sits on sale status for the next two years. Some people will disagree with me on this one and fair enough, but i believe for the more premium lines, some people MUST miss out.

Take my hypothetical scenario as an example: if there are 20 people willing to pay 5000usd for a premium item, then ideally, not more than 15 should be sold. And I'm not telling companies to reduce the edition size to 15 and jack up the price to 6k. No sir, the onus is on companies to create long term collector value and demand and if that means curbing profits a little to ensure that the hobby is sustainable, then they need to do it. It is a symbiotic relationship. Collectors support these companies and they need to take care of us too.

Nb: what i have just said is directed to all collectibles making companies.

Now, back to Rivendell. The issue here is whether Rivendell is meant to be a premium piece or a bread and butter piece. IMO, it should be a bread and butter piece and it should be priced accordingly... I.e. Higher edition size and lowers price. Why? Well, every line has to have its highlight collectible that gives owners an incentive to build upon what they have and collect the rest of the line. If more people own a rivendell, there will be more demand for future environments. It's kinds like The matrix... Will you buy trinity and morpheus If you don't have a neo?

 

[cstojano]

I think weta needs to be careful with how they want to market some of their more premium lines.

Weta needs to decide very early on which of their lines are meant to be the flagship ultra high end stuff and which is going to be the bread and butter stuff. Once they have made this decision, they need to then balance the edition size and price accordingly.

For the high end stuff, the edition size really has to be reflective of the price. If I'm going to pay 5000usd for a bronze statue, im going to be quite disappointed if its not sold out and the remaining quota sits on sale status for the next two years. Some people will disagree with me on this one and fair enough, but i believe for the more premium lines, some people MUST miss out.

Take my hypothetical scenario as an example: if there are 20 people willing to pay 5000usd for a premium item, then ideally, not more than 15 should be sold. And I'm not telling companies to reduce the edition size to 15 and jack up the price to 6k. No sir, the onus is on companies to create long term collector value and demand and if that means curbing profits a little to ensure that the hobby is sustainable, then they need to do it. It is a symbiotic relationship. Collectors support these companies and they need to take care of us too.

Nb: what i have just said is directed to all collectibles making companies.

Now, back to Rivendell. The issue here is whether Rivendell is meant to be a premium piece or a bread and butter piece. IMO, it should be a bread and butter piece and it should be priced accordingly... I.e. Higher edition size and lowers price. Why? Well, every line has to have its highlight collectible that gives owners an incentive to build upon what they have and collect the rest of the line. If more people own a rivendell, there will be more demand for future environments. It's kinds like The matrix... Will you buy trinity and morpheus If you don't have a neo?

I'm not sure what the expected time to sell out a piece like this should be. Anyone have data from the SSW Gandalf bronze? Clearly a different climate with staggered pricing like that. CS Moore has been selling conan bronzes now for a number of years with an ES of 50 and a 4500 dollar price tag. Bowen bronze death dealer, not sure of the sell through on that but the piece has doubled in value on a bad day, tripled on a good one - ES of 50. Gandalf seems to have doubled in price as well with an ES of 36. Of the fantasy bronzes the Weta pieces will be the most limited. I have now fully come to appreciate how different the market is for these and I agree that they clearly need to differentiate the premium from non premium items. To be fair, I don't know they have commented or hinted either way with Rivendell but it surely is not meant for the "fine art" market (this is how they describe the bronzes). Pricing guesses are all over the place with a huge range. i think if PP was NOT released all of these estimates would be lower. I think an OE BE at 125 makes a 400-500 Rivendell reasonable, but we all get tripped up with the seemingly aberrant PP at 200.

 

[woodsy]

Woodsy

Most of my posts about this line are testy and frustrated but mostly because I just don't understand the vast majority of collectors. I am coming to accept this - people will pay 400+ dollars for a Lurtz PF (a total BS character and not a very exciting or compelling one) but won't pay that for the Howe pieces because they want things from a movie. I'm not disagreeing with you on perceived value, clearly the masses have spoken. I also can't complain about the FB line because it saved me 1500 dollars (and soon a total of 3000) because it allowed Weta to lower the bronze costs. To be honest, part of my frustration is somewhat tied up in the money I have here, not that I regret it and ever plan to sell, but its always good to have an exit strategy if need be.

I know you think certain wetaphiles villify you. I don't know the history. It does seem that Weta has a bias against it within the broader hobby though - people seem to eat up most of what SS throws at them.

Hey, I completely understand what you're saying. I have no idea why one person prefers 'Statue A', while another prefers 'Statue B'....when clearly 'Statue C' is the best one in the lot. I stopped trying to figure this out along time ago as there is no rhyme or reason when it comes to personal tastes. And if I were you, instead of trying to figure collectors out i'd be trying to figure out what to do with the $3000 saved as the result of Weta starting the polystone JH line in the first place.

 

[Adolfo]

Another note, people seem to be thinking the new Hobbit will return us to the glory days off collecting. It almost seems like a foregone conclusion - and sure it makes sense. But the world is different now and we may see more reserved offerings. Somehow I don't think the Hobbit will be as big a deal as LOTR was. Sure it will make headlines but the spirit of the world is different now, more downbeat for obvious reasons. Fantasy is great escape, not sure that this translates into every Tom, ____ and Harry buying busts of all the dwarves though.

Also, Smaug won't appear until the second film, by then Hobbit mania will be on the downswing. Surely he will be a highly guarded secret. These factors do not bode well for multiple poses.

Smaug might appear as a flashback in first film...book is only about 280 pages and 2 movies will be between 4-6 hours toatal running time...

 

[Adolfo]

I think the problems were there before the bases. We all pre-ordered with the original bases which were beautiful and the piece still didn't sell out.

The Wood base looks nicer than the Polystone base IMHO

 

[cstojano]

Smaug might appear as a flashback in first film...book is only about 280 pages and 2 movies will be between 4-6 hours toatal running time...

Mmm, very good point, with the telling of the story of the dwarves no doubt.

 

[woodsy]

As for the bronzes, in particular the faux-bronzes, no they didn't sell out before the base switch, but maybe, once people started to get them in hand, they would have been sold out by now if the bases were as originally described.

No doubt the change in bases wasn't exactly helpful, but Smaug was still available almost a year after pre-orders began during which time we all still believed we were getting solid wood bases, as advertised. I think no matter what, trying to sell 300 faux bronze statues was always going to be a difficult task...and Weta's pricing cetainly didn't help matters. Perhaps you're right, had Weta provided solid wood bases with these statues 'word of mouth' may have helped to sell out the edition in spite of the $430 price tag attached to them. I highly doubt it though......I suspect any chance of that happening would have gone right out the window the minute Weta raised the price, as they promised they were going to do.....right about the time they started shipping the first wave of Smaug's.

 

[cstojano]

No doubt the change in bases wasn't exactly helpful, but Smaug was still available almost a year after pre-orders began during which time we all still believed we were getting solid wood bases, as advertised. I think no matter what, trying to sell 300 faux bronze statues was always going to be a difficult task...and Weta's pricing cetainly didn't help matters. Perhaps you're right, had Weta provided solid wood bases with these statues 'word of mouth' may have helped to sell out the edition in spite of the $430 price tag attached to them. I highly doubt it though......I suspect any chance of that happening would have gone right out the window the minute Weta raised the price, as they promised they were going to do.....right about the time they started shipping the first wave of Smaug's.

It just struck me like a truck that SS's FB pieces are all limited runs within runs of 50 pieces or less. CS Moore's FB conan the conqueror is also not doing well. I still think someone could do a bang up custom paint job on Smaug - I had intentions but the bases just added another layer of complexity. Then again, my painter needed to be able to detach it from the base (now he could) but the wings remain a problem. They would need to be removed and then re-attached.

 

[woodsy]

It just struck me like a truck that SS's FB pieces are all limited runs within runs of 50 pieces or less. CS Moore's FB conan the conqueror is also not doing well. I still think someone could do a bang up custom paint job on Smaug - I had intentions but the bases just added another layer of complexity. Then again, my painter needed to be able to detach it from the base (now he could) but the wings remain a problem. They would need to be removed and then re-attached.

Thats' exactly right, and why I think no matter what Weta was going to have a hard time selling these. I did voice my concerns with Weta Manager Tim Launder the day after Weta released the news concerning the JH line [July 31/09] and he did mention that both John and Richard Taylor preferred the bronze look as this would be more reflective of the 19th century fine art style they wanted to capture.....unfortunately, the 19th century style that was so popular back then doesn't quite resonate with 21st century collectors. Ideally, I think an ES of 100 to 150 would have been perfect and had they been numbered in such a way I highly doubt it would still be available today.

And while some [myself included] point to The Prancing Pony when speculating on what Weta might do price-wise concerning Rivendell, I would also point to the JH line as a reason for concern. Clearly these statues were overpriced from Day 1, and the thought that they fully intended to raise the price even more [and this after replacing the significantly more expensive wood base with the cheaper veneer base] is a scary proposition. Who knows what Weta would be charging for these today had the veneer base issue not blown up in their face.

 

[Fritz]

...Period. Lurtz is a sore point for me because the character represents everything wrong with Jackson's work, hence my focus on it here...

Well since that whole sequence was left out of the books, we don't know that Lurtz never existed. And I'm going to assume he was there because I like the Lurtz PF.

...I also like how 'Lurtz' is a simplified homage to 'Lugburz',...

I wonder how many know the fact Lurtz is a nice nod to what the Orc called BD?

Source please. I don't think this was ever confirmed by anyone, just a rumor created by fans that needed to tie Lurtz into something from the Tolkien universe.

 

[FrodoEyes]

Source please. I don't think this was ever confirmed by anyone, just a rumor created by fans that needed to tie Lurtz into something from the Tolkien universe.

Well i don't 'need' to tie him in to anything, i just take him for what he is. I wasn't saying it was anything official, just a cool little thing that i noticed and like to think is true, but not because i need to tie him in to Tolkiens's universe. He's an uruk, that's enough for me.

 

[The Josh]

Source please. I don't think this was ever confirmed by anyone, just a rumor created by fans that needed to tie Lurtz into something from the Tolkien universe.

From just surfing around the net I found a LOTR wiki and it just mentions that its the same thing that its believe this is were PJ got the name but I can't find anything official.

 

[Fritz]

...I wasn't saying it was anything official...

From just surfing around the net I found a LOTR wiki and it just mentions that its the same thing that its believe this is were PJ got the name but I can't find anything official.

Ok, thanks. I remember this discussion from a while back and just wanted verify that it wasn't confirmed.