Statue Weta Rivendell Environment

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Nope...apples and oranges to most of the collectors. Howe's stuff is amazing but not what many modern LOTR collectors are looking to purchase. It's going to be interesting though when, hopefully, WETA release a licensed Smaug from the Hobbit when the movie comes out. People will be clamoring for that I bet.
I hope I can afford Rivendell and more importantly I hope I have a place to display it. I still think we are looking in the 600-700 dollar range with shipping included for the amount of time and detail put into this piece.

In Oct. of 2009, 2 months after Smaug became available for pre-order, I said that very same thing myself. People were calling the FB Smaug "the next Balrog".....hmmm, how'd that work out? :lol No doubt John Howe is a very talented artist, but I have always preferred Weta's vision of middle-earth over his and I believe a 'colour' version of Smaug, created by Weta [should Weta get the licencing rights] has a much better chance of becoming a 'classic' than Howe's version ever did.

As for your $600-700 [shipping included] Rivendell prediction....I hope you're right. :lecture
 
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That's why i'm kinda leaning towards Weta getting the rights - the creatures. That's what they do best, and to have the people who designed him, do the statue of Smaug, then yes, it will be sought after! Hopefully the ES won't be too high, but i'd expect it to be a bit higher than the balrog as Weta would want to get as much profit from it as possible. As Hobbit fever will have really kicked in, maybe 2000? 3000?
I can see a version of Smaug like the Howe one, only in colour and the movie-version on his gold. That'll be the big one, then maybe we could have a 'baby-Smaug' - where he's flying around the mountain breathing fire, with the fire connecting him to the sculpt of the mountain.
 
I seriously doubt we will have only a single Smaug representation! I would imagine several, Bust, Statue, Environment, Diorama, Art...probably even some quirky SCALES from his armor as a keychain or something like that. Hobbit will be HUGE and licensing will provide more Smaug than we will know what to do with.

But...back on topic...there is real no easy way to compare John Howe's work to Sideshow's or even Weta's mainstream work. John Howe is an ARTIST, world-renowned, and THAT alone is what sells his products...not the statue itself, but that fact that it is a piece of John Howe's work. There are MANY artists in Middle-earth who create pieces that 'to many' are GRAILS...and they even do not sell well (at least from our collectors' perspective). Comparing Howe's Smaug to Sideshow/WETA's Balrog...like comparing apples and oranges...

Now...back to Rivendell, I still will stick with my opinion that the definitive piece (if they even do multiple 'versions') that collectors REALLY want will be between $800 - $1000. With all of the artists involved, the sheer numbers of parts, and the countless hours put in, can't see it going for much less. Comparing Rivendell to Bag End would be a travesty...Bag End has ONE Tree...Rivendell has way over 100 (including shrubbery). Bag end has almost NO building structure...Rivendell has a LOAD. Bag End had only ONE major sculptor working on it, Rivendell has over 10. The cost will be significantly higher...more than twice, and probably like 3-5 times the cost, and hence my prediction of pricing. I will stick to my guess, but like so many others...will be pleasantly surprised if it comes in anywhere near $500 (at that price, I may be tempted to even buy one:)
 
But...back on topic...there is real no easy way to compare John Howe's work to Sideshow's or even Weta's mainstream work. John Howe is an ARTIST, world-renowned, and THAT alone is what sells his products...not the statue itself, but that fact that it is a piece of John Howe's work. There are MANY artists in Middle-earth who create pieces that 'to many' are GRAILS...and they even do not sell well (at least from our collectors' perspective). Comparing Howe's Smaug to Sideshow/WETA's Balrog...like comparing apples and oranges...

:confused: There's no doubt John Howe is a renowned LOTR artist, but if you can remind me as to how having his name attached to these statues has helped to sell them.....I'd love to hear it. Two statues [Smaug/Eowyn], arguably based on Howe's most loved and familiar LOTR artwork and neither statue even remotely close to selling out after 20 and 18 months respectively. Seems to me his name, or the fact these statues are based on his artwork have had no impact whatsoever on the saleability of these items. And if Weta can't sell these two, how on earth are they ever going to sell statues based on some of his less familiar artwork, if in fact the JH line isn't already dead.

Now...back to Rivendell, I still will stick with my opinion that the definitive piece (if they even do multiple 'versions') that collectors REALLY want will be between $800 - $1000. With all of the artists involved, the sheer numbers of parts, and the countless hours put in, can't see it going for much less. Comparing Rivendell to Bag End would be a travesty...Bag End has ONE Tree...Rivendell has way over 100 (including shrubbery). Bag end has almost NO building structure...Rivendell has a LOAD. Bag End had only ONE major sculptor working on it, Rivendell has over 10. The cost will be significantly higher...more than twice, and probably like 3-5 times the cost, and hence my prediction of pricing. I will stick to my guess, but like so many others...will be pleasantly surprised if it comes in anywhere near $500 (at that price, I may be tempted to even buy one:)

I don't believe anyone is comparing Bag End to Rivendell. One could make the arguement that Bag End is middle-earth, that no other environment best represents what middle-earth is all about, but certainly there is no comparison when it comes to the complexity or labour intensiveness of the two sculpts. Clearly, Rivendell wins that contest 'hands down'. And while I would not be happy in the least, I do agree this could easily wind up in $800-1000 range, but that will be entirely dependent on the ES. :lecture
 
Nope...apples and oranges to most of the collectors. Howe's stuff is amazing but not what many modern LOTR collectors are looking to purchase. It's going to be interesting though when, hopefully, WETA release a licensed Smaug from the Hobbit when the movie comes out. People will be clamoring for that I bet.

I agree.. John howe's work is really nice but it is mainly concept art. The bulk majority of lotr fans want actual movie merchandise that is directly linked to the movie e.g. Movie replica props, dioramas capturing iconic screenshots, maquettes of characters or creatures or a rivendell miniature that is made by the same guys who made the bigatures for the movies.

Concept art is nice, but I think only a small handful of fans are willing to pay top dollar to buy it. If you want to capture more of the market, than the price has to be lowered. I'm speaking from my own personal point of view because there are a few pieces that I may actually pick up if the price was more attractive.
 
I agree.. John howe's work is really nice but it is mainly concept art. The bulk majority of lotr fans want actual movie merchandise that is directly linked to the movie e.g. Movie replica props, dioramas capturing iconic screenshots, maquettes of characters or creatures or a rivendell miniature that is made by the same guys who made the bigatures for the movies.

Concept art is nice, but I think only a small handful of fans are willing to pay top dollar to buy it. If you want to capture more of the market, than the price has to be lowered. I'm speaking from my own personal point of view because there are a few pieces that I may actually pick up if the price was more attractive.

Concept Art? These aren't statues based on his scribblings for the films, they're based on actual art. He was an artist before a movie concept artist!
 
Concept Art? These aren't statues based on his scribblings for the films, they're based on actual art. He was an artist before a movie concept artist!

Yes but his stuff isn't what most fans of LOTR know. Yes us diehard fans know and love Howe and Alan Lee and have books signed by them; but to the casual LOTR fan they only know the movie stuff. And that's not a bad thing cause many fans, once they've seen the movie will go back and read the books for the first time in their lives. To me Howe's stuff is kinda a "one-off". They are great collectibles inspired by a great fantasy artist.
 
Concept Art? These aren't statues based on his scribblings for the films, they're based on actual art. He was an artist before a movie concept artist!

I do agree JH's artwork is not 'concept art' for the movies, nor was it ever intended to be such, but in a roundabout way one could make the arguement that some of his work has become conceptual art in an unofficial capacity, in that many of his designs do very much resemble the designs Weta eventually went with in the movies. At the very least some of his artwork did lay the foundation for some of Weta's designs.
 
Man it is hard to bite your tongue and scratch your head at the same time. This particular issue, the Howe line, gets me so cranky because I just do not get the lack of interest. Invariably I end up getting very testy, mostly with Woodsy, on this topic which ends up devolving into debates about art, collectability, Weta vs SS, etc. Are both Howe pieces were 2x the aragorn maquette? Apparently not based on sales, but ABSOLUTELY they are (screaming).

I will say this. I have seen both the faux bronze and bronze of Smaug and there is no comparison. These pieces were meant to be bronzes and it shows I think. I canceled my order for the Nazgul FB and will get the bronze of that piece as well. If they do more pieces from the line (I suspect at least Gandalf will be made) I also suspect they will NOT do a faux bronze version and raise the bronze price back to 6k. This was the original plan, collector outrage ensued, they made FB versions and lowered the bronze price, and then the collectors threw Weta to the wolves. If they can't sell out the FB Smaug then as Woodsy pointed out who will buy the other pieces???

So to bring this back to Rivendell, the collectors clearly said one thing and did another with the Howe line (as I remember it anyway) and Weta may keep this in mind with Rivendell and future pieces.
 
Another note, people seem to be thinking the new Hobbit will return us to the glory days off collecting. It almost seems like a foregone conclusion - and sure it makes sense. But the world is different now and we may see more reserved offerings. Somehow I don't think the Hobbit will be as big a deal as LOTR was. Sure it will make headlines but the spirit of the world is different now, more downbeat for obvious reasons. Fantasy is great escape, not sure that this translates into every Tom, ____ and Harry buying busts of all the dwarves though.

Also, Smaug won't appear until the second film, by then Hobbit mania will be on the downswing. Surely he will be a highly guarded secret. These factors do not bode well for multiple poses.
 
Of course the world is different. What I think The Hobbit will do is relight the fires and help get things moving a bit faster. I don't expect things to be what they were but I do think it will help make them more than they are now.

The Hobbit downswing won't be until well after the second movie comes out. It was that way with ROTK and I expect it will be the same with these films.
 
Man it is hard to bite your tongue and scratch your head at the same time. This particular issue, the Howe line, gets me so cranky because I just do not get the lack of interest. Invariably I end up getting very testy, mostly with Woodsy, on this topic which ends up devolving into debates about art, collectability, Weta vs SS, etc. Are both Howe pieces were 2x the aragorn maquette? Apparently not based on sales, but ABSOLUTELY they are (screaming).


Just a suggestion, but if you do insist on getting testy how about reserving those emotions for the ones who deserve it, namely Weta.....as for me, I'm just the messenger. :dunno For close to two years now I have been stating the obvious, namely that these would not resonate with the majority of LOTR collectors because :

1]. They are not movie-related, therefore they were always going to be less popular with the vast majority of collectors
2]. They are faux bronze, again making these much less popular with the vast majority of collectors....who happen to prefer colour

So instead of taking these factors into consideration and pricing them in such a way as to appeal to those on the fence, or who normally don't find FB or non movie-related collectibles appealling...what did they do? They priced them at 40% more than comparable SS statues....thus singlehandedly killing this line.:cuckoo:

And this has nothing to do with the quality of the product, which up until the faux base 'bait and switch' incident was pretty well perfect. The simple truth is, no matter how good the quality of an item is, people are only going to pay so much....anything that is priced above it's perceived value is not going to sell...period. Alot of people will pay upwards of 60K for a vehicle of outstanding quality such as a Lexus. Slap another 40% on top of that 60K price tag and all the sudden you have a showroom full of quality vehicles sitting there 'cause no one's buying them.....and that is exact what happened with the JH line.

And the only people responsible for this are those calling the shots at Weta. Although apparently, alot of people would rather attack me for telling the truth than put the blame squarely where it belongs. :lol I remember writing a review for the Smaug statue on Weta's website after the one I ordered for a friend arrived. Unlike the rest of the reviews [or rather infomercials] being written I chose to be completely honest so that anyone not familiar with the product could walk away as an informed consumer....and I was villified for do so. Pretty ironic considering 6 weeks after I wrote in my review [in which I pointed out the 'solid wood' base was not solid wood and that the cheap veneer substitute on these would have bubbling/lifting issues] Weta announced a total recall on the product. And as if out of an episode of the Twilight Zone, I actually had one guy attack me for my review....and he did so after Weta had recalled the statues, and the same day that he himself stated he was going to ask for his money back after calling the whole incident 'a fiasco'. :ohbfrank:

I will say this. I have seen both the faux bronze and bronze of Smaug and there is no comparison. These pieces were meant to be bronzes and it shows I think. I canceled my order for the Nazgul FB and will get the bronze of that piece as well. If they do more pieces from the line (I suspect at least Gandalf will be made) I also suspect they will NOT do a faux bronze version and raise the bronze price back to 6k. This was the original plan, collector outrage ensued, they made FB versions and lowered the bronze price, and then the collectors threw Weta to the wolves. If they can't sell out the FB Smaug then as Woodsy pointed out who will buy the other pieces???

So to bring this back to Rivendell, the collectors clearly said one thing and did another with the Howe line (as I remember it anyway) and Weta may keep this in mind with Rivendell and future pieces.

Well I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on this one because no one 'threw Weta to the wolves'.....they did it to themselves. Most collectors wanted the polystone versions in colour, not faux bronze. And no one expected these would be priced at well over $400 a pop. As for Rivendell, yes collectors have asked for this, and I'm sure all those involved have every intention of purchasing this envoronment once it becomes available....but wanting something, and having the money to pay for it are not necessarily the same thing. Perhaps that is something Weta should keep in mind when they slap a price tag on Rivendell. :lecture
 
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Woodsy

Most of my posts about this line are testy and frustrated but mostly because I just don't understand the vast majority of collectors. I am coming to accept this - people will pay 400+ dollars for a Lurtz PF (a total BS character and not a very exciting or compelling one) but won't pay that for the Howe pieces because they want things from a movie. I'm not disagreeing with you on perceived value, clearly the masses have spoken. I also can't complain about the FB line because it saved me 1500 dollars (and soon a total of 3000) because it allowed Weta to lower the bronze costs. To be honest, part of my frustration is somewhat tied up in the money I have here, not that I regret it and ever plan to sell, but its always good to have an exit strategy if need be.

I know you think certain wetaphiles villify you. I don't know the history. It does seem that Weta has a bias against it within the broader hobby though - people seem to eat up most of what SS throws at them.
 
Woodsy

Most of my posts about this line are testy and frustrated but mostly because I just don't understand the vast majority of collectors. I am coming to accept this - people will pay 400+ dollars for a Lurtz PF (a total BS character and not a very exciting or compelling one) but won't pay that for the Howe pieces because they want things from a movie.

Its that for you but how can you blame folks who buy what they like based on their interest of this great story be it book or movie form? :dunno
 
Not blaming Josh, just don't understand the mindset. Well in a way I do, people like buying stuff from movies. Period. Lurtz is a sore point for me because the character represents everything wrong with Jackson's work, hence my focus on it here. Still I can't argue against facts and the facts here are clear.

As for Weta being sold out/thrown under the bus. Maybe their mistake was listening to the two dozen people at SF about the bronze vs FB issue and made a major decision based on a very small sample. it will be great if they release the Howe gandalf in bronze only, then we can compare the McKellen to Howe bronze after market values in 25 years. I know where my money is going there.:)
 
Not blaming Josh, just don't understand the mindset. Well in a way I do, people like buying stuff from movies. Period. Lurtz is a sore point for me because the character represents everything wrong with Jackson's work, hence my focus on it here. Still I can't argue against facts and the facts here are clear.

I dont know how you can't to be honest. Its a cool looking character that helped that sequence and didn't take anything away from the overall story. Ah, I can see you're one of those that took the book into the movie and started highlighting what was changed or "wrong". :lol Jackson's work was nothing short of amazing and transformed one of the best books I've ever read to the big screen. Sure, there are a couple things that bother me like many folks. So to all that I don't care to get into that discussion with you cause I can tell I'd be better off banging my head against a wall.
 
Christopher Lee said that there were good changes and bad changes. A good change was having the Uruk-Hai fight on-screen in stead of Aragorn coming across a dying Boromir after the bad guys had run off, as happens in the book. In a dramatic medium like cinema, you need to see these moments as it adds to the visual medium. Creating Lurtz gave the uruks a leader, and simply a good, if brief, 'boss fight' for the end of the movie - giving the film a satisfying climax for the viewer as the bad guy - minor though he might be - is defeated. I also like how 'Lurtz' is a simplified homage to 'Lugburz', which is what the orcs call Barad-Dur :FREAK:
So i see why he's popular, but i agree also that it's unfortunate people can't find as much love in a statue that's non-movie based. Maybe if it was in colour..... i certainly prefer colour, but the bronze should give it a more classical feel. Maybe the problems with the base is what has hampered the line, not the piece itself or collectors tastes.
 
I dont know how you can't to be honest. Its a cool looking character that helped that sequence and didn't take anything away from the overall story. Ah, I can see you're one of those that took the book into the movie and started highlighting what was changed or "wrong". :lol Jackson's work was nothing short of amazing and transformed one of the best books I've ever read to the big screen. Sure, there are a couple things that bother me like many folks. So to all that I don't care to get into that discussion with you cause I can tell I'd be better off banging my head against a wall.

Yeah pretty much. People rail on Bakshi for animation issues, pronunciation issues and a Sam-Frodo love scene but the movie is better paced and more dramatic than Jackson's. My signature should just remind people to compare the Rankin-Bass Eowyn vs Witch King scene to that of Jackson. The movie made for kids to watch on Saturday utterly destroys Jackson's. So while I can safely place Josh in the fan boy camp, I myself named my daughter Eowyn due to my love of all things Tolkien (I named the neighbors cat that pees on my front door Lurtz :).

I wouldn't say I took the book into the movie. As proof of this I offer the following: I hate Tom Bombadil. This gets me rejected from the literary sites as a heretic. I think people give PJ way too much credit.
 
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