X-Men: Days of Future Past

[GasparZizou]

Magneto didn't come off as stupid, there was more to it then just starting a war, it was to make a statement for all the mutants who were in hiding, and ashamed of who they were. Magneto broadcasting everything was also to inspire all the mutants around the world, show them they don't have to live in the shadow of H0m0-sapiens, that they are the next step in evolution, start an uprising.

Magneto's plan was far more brilliant than framing Trask. Mutants are going to start rebelling because of Magneto, and some might even join his Brotherhood, and he'll have the sentinels to control.


Trask stated that they needed more than just that DNA sample from Raven to continue on the project. In the original timeline, she is captured and tortured. So the future Sentinels still weren't a possibility until she's captured.

Also remember, Magneto knows where the sentinels were being manufactured, the program would not be able to continue after he murders Trask because Magneto would probably go back there and either destroy the place or kill everyone working there.

EDIT: just saw Kara explained it perfectly.

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Ah, I was gonna post that last part too :

Btw I convinced my friend partly because she had a cold and had a headache so she didn't want to debate she did acknowledge that Magneto wasn't all that stupid, giving Mystique's blood to Trask was still a pretty stupid mistake.

 

[pturtle]

Ah, I was gonna post that last part too :

Btw I convinced my friend partly because she had a cold and had a headache so she didn't want to debate she did acknowledge that Magneto wasn't all that stupid, giving Mystique's blood to Trask was still a pretty stupid mistake.

I knew you had it in you haha

Yea the look on Magneto's face when he realized he messed up was priceless.


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[The Ween]

I finally got to see this today. It was really awesome and a definite buy when it comes out on blu. The perfect set up to complete the reboot.

I give the movie a 9 but it goes to a 10 for Hugh's AWESOME ASS!

 

[The Ween]

I don't follow the comics so could someone who has seen the after credits scene tell me who the woman is?

 

[GasparZizou]

It's young Apocalypse, it's a guy though, it's the oldest mutant and he's got all sorts of crazy powers, it's one of Marvel's Darkseid along with Thanos.

Better explained here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_(comics)

 

[jye4ever]

I finally got to see this today. It was really awesome and a definite buy when it comes out on blu. The perfect set up to complete the reboot.

I give the movie a 9 but it goes to a 10 for Hugh's AWESOME ASS!

Funny, wife said the same.

 

[tylerdurden]

Well I think he could have helped scrap at least that existing Sentinel program that way--he could have discretely taken out Trask and the entire Sentinel base of operations earlier in the film. But, that action would have done nothing to quell public antipathy toward mutants (not that he cares about that anyway), or to help bolster the support of his movement in the mutant community (which he cares very strongly about). I think you can view his public performance as the terrorist action that it was meant to be, and from that POV, he's following the same strategy that terrorists around the world would use. He would have made a huge, dramatic show that resulted in increased fear and likely a disproportionate retaliation by the government that would have actually helped to bolster his support in the mutant community. Of course, Mags wouldn't want there to be a threat to mutant existence like future Sentinels. But he definitely would want the mutant community to feel threatened and angry at humans. Terrorist groups thrive following this mindset, and official governments arguably do the same from time to time.

So, they didn't explicitly explore these issues in the movie, but I don't think it's a stretch to think this was the case, which follows the various actions Mags has taken at other points in the franchise to bring negative attention to mutant kind for the purpose of promoting his own agenda, not just of mutant survival, but of mutant influences and dominance.

Magneto didn't come off as stupid, there was more to it then just starting a war, it was to make a statement for all the mutants who were in hiding, and ashamed of who they were. Magneto broadcasting everything was also to inspire all the mutants around the world, show them they don't have to live in the shadow of H0m0-sapiens, that they are the next step in evolution, start an uprising.

Magneto's plan was far more brilliant than framing Trask. Mutants are going to start rebelling because of Magneto, and some might even join his Brotherhood, and he'll have the sentinels to control.


Trask stated that they needed more than just that DNA sample from Raven to continue on the project. In the original timeline, she is captured and tortured. So the future Sentinels still weren't a possibility until she's captured.

Also remember, Magneto knows where the sentinels were being manufactured, the program would not be able to continue after he murders Trask because Magneto would probably go back there and either destroy the place or kill everyone working there.

EDIT: just saw Kara explained it perfectly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nah, sorry guys. still don't buy that. there's a big difference between making a statement to galvanise support amongst your kind (bear in mind that not many mutants are extremists like magneto), and going ahead with a grandstanding gesture that you absolutely KNOW for a fact is what leads to your entire species getting killed. extremist or not, as an intelligent man magneto should be able to come up with other ways of selling his point/manifesto rather than the one act he knows to be self-defeating.

the humans could've/would've easily have mobilised their remaining sentinels as soon as the stadium incident occurred. sentinels can fly, remember. plus, if trask is as brilliant as he was made out to be, he would've had contingency plans put into place in case of a compromise. it's really not a stretch.

as for needing more dna, i'll give you that the data might have been incomplete. for the time being. but as i said, it was only a matter of time. and by magneto's actions cementing human resolve in creating a more efficient weapon to destroy mutants, it's pretty much a given that the efforts --- fully sanctioned and supported by a vengeful US govt no less --- would've been intensified.

 

[pturtle]

nah, sorry guys. still don't buy that. there's a big difference between making a statement to galvanise support amongst your kind (bear in mind that not many mutants are extremists like magneto), and going ahead with a grandstanding gesture that you absolutely KNOW for a fact is what leads to your entire species getting killed. extremist or not, as an intelligent man magneto should be able to come up with other ways of selling his point/manifesto rather than the one act he knows to be self-defeating.

the humans could've/would've easily have mobilised their remaining sentinels as soon as the stadium incident occurred. sentinels can fly, remember. plus, if trask is as brilliant as he was made out to be, he would've had contingency plans put into place in case of a compromise. it's really not a stretch.

as for needing more dna, i'll give you that the data might have been incomplete. for the time being. but as i said, it was only a matter of time. and by magneto's actions cementing human resolve in creating a more efficient weapon to destroy mutants, it's pretty much a given that the efforts --- fully sanctioned and supported by a vengeful US govt no less --- would've been intensified.

This history wasn't the same, in the original timeline, Magneto was locked up while all of this was happening, the future most likely wouldn't have been the same, for all we know if Magneto wasn't neutralized by Mystique or Professor X, the future would have been a lot different, maybe a place where sentinels only killed human beings, Magneto decided to keep them.

I'm sure Magneto knew all mutants wouldn't agree with him, but by making that statement it shows most of the mutants who where ashamed of who they were or scared, would come out of hiding, and possibly join him which is what the shots of Toad and Ink were implying.

These were the Mark I sentinels, the fact that Trask made these in the freaking 70's shows how brilliant he is, even Tony Stark's first suit wasn't perfect.

I'm guessing you didn't like the way things played out, but Magneto's plan wasn't stupid, it made perfect sense and perfectly fit his character.


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[The Ween]

It's young Apocalypse, it's a guy though, it's the oldest mutant and he's got all sorts of crazy powers, it's one of Marvel's Darkseid along with Thanos.

Better explained here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_(comics)

Thanks! A guy?! Wow, very feminine looking, even the hands.

 

[jye4ever]

It was Twink Apocalypse.

 

[Baneofdemon22]

It's young Apocalypse, it's a guy though, it's the oldest mutant and he's got all sorts of crazy powers, it's one of Marvel's Darkseid along with Thanos.

Better explained here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_(comics)

He's my favorite of all Marvel's Darkseids!

 

[Niltusk]

Thanks! A guy?! Wow, very feminine looking, even the hands.

 

[GasparZizou]

Thanks! A guy?! Wow, very feminine looking, even the hands.

Yeah he always looks a little tender when young

 

[GasparZizou]

nah, sorry guys. still don't buy that. there's a big difference between making a statement to galvanise support amongst your kind (bear in mind that not many mutants are extremists like magneto), and going ahead with a grandstanding gesture that you absolutely KNOW for a fact is what leads to your entire species getting killed. extremist or not, as an intelligent man magneto should be able to come up with other ways of selling his point/manifesto rather than the one act he knows to be self-defeating.

That was in the previous timeline, when Magneto was locked up and had no idea about the sentinels, that's a key factor, knowing about the sentinels and know how to control gave him a HUGE advantage, so it was not a self-defeating act at all.

the humans could've/would've easily have mobilised their remaining sentinels as soon as the stadium incident occurred. sentinels can fly, remember. plus, if trask is as brilliant as he was made out to be, he would've had contingency plans put into place in case of a compromise. it's really not a stretch.

And magneto already knows how to control the rest of the sentinels too, what would Trask's contingency plan be? He would need an immediate upgrade for the sentinels, an upgrade to prevent magneto from controlling even plastic made sentinels, that's not going to be immediate at all, and in the meantime, Magneto has the upper hand, what are they gonna do? Magneto can bend tanks & planes like hot spoons, deflect hundreds of missiles at the same time, levitate a ****ing stadium the Sentinels were their only real advantage and Magneto took them away from them.

The more I think about it, the more it looks like the logical thing to do.

A more compelling argument would be to say that Magneto didn't have an "army" ready, but with such a statement of Mutant superiority, I have no doubt that the mutants who sympathized with Magneto's ideals would join him in a heart beat.

Literally, the only way he was stopped was through other mutants, that's why he failed, not because of the humans' resolve.

I was dubious about this part of the movie myself a few pages back, but I'm more convinced it makes sense.

 

[Niltusk]

Yep, he made their 'ultimate defense/offense' into a ****ing joke

 

[tylerdurden]

This history wasn't the same, in the original timeline, Magneto was locked up while all of this was happening, the future most likely wouldn't have been the same, for all we know if Magneto wasn't neutralized by Mystique or Professor X, the future would have been a lot different, maybe a place where sentinels only killed human beings, Magneto decided to keep them.

I'm sure Magneto knew all mutants wouldn't agree with him, but by making that statement it shows most of the mutants who where ashamed of who they were or scared, would come out of hiding, and possibly join him which is what the shots of Toad and Ink were implying.

These were the Mark I sentinels, the fact that Trask made these in the freaking 70's shows how brilliant he is, even Tony Stark's first suit wasn't perfect.

I'm guessing you didn't like the way things played out, but Magneto's plan wasn't stupid, it made perfect sense and perfectly fit his character.



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That was in the previous timeline, when Magneto was locked up and had no idea about the sentinels, that's a key factor, knowing about the sentinels and know how to control gave him a HUGE advantage, so it was not a self-defeating act at all.


And magneto already knows how to control the rest of the sentinels too, what would Trask's contingency plan be? He would need an immediate upgrade for the sentinels, an upgrade to prevent magneto from controlling even plastic made sentinels, that's not going to be immediate at all, and in the meantime, Magneto has the upper hand, what are they gonna do? Magneto can bend tanks & planes like hot spoons, deflect hundreds of missiles at the same time, levitate a ****ing stadium the Sentinels were their only real advantage and Magneto took them away from them.

The more I think about it, the more it looks like the logical thing to do.

A more compelling argument would be to say that Magneto didn't have an "army" ready, but with such a statement of Mutant superiority, I have no doubt that the mutants who sympathized with Magneto's ideals would join him in a heart beat.

Literally, the only way he was stopped was through other mutants, that's why he failed, not because of the humans' resolve.

I was dubious about this part of the movie myself a few pages back, but I'm more convinced it makes sense.

okay, at this point it's just opinion versus opinion. this could drag on forever.

but out of the love for polite debate, i'll very quickly give one last response...
- being locked up doesn't change the fact that magneto was made fully aware of the future peril should trask be killed. basic cause and effect remains, regardless. so yes, it's still foolishly self-defeating.
- upgrades aren't an issue. magneto's control of sentinels are only possible when there's ample access to metal in the vicinity. take that out of the equation in a sentinel ambush that lures him to, say a non-urban area, and he's screwed. with his hubris, it's not hard to bait the fella.

 

[jye4ever]

John Belushi could've been Wolverine on SNL.

 

[iron.jedi83]

Magneto took the information Wolverine gave him as a confirmation a war between mutants and humans was going to happen. he did listen to Wolverine but he didnt listen to the warning about working towards and better solution. future Magneto even told Wolverine it will be very difficult convicing young Magneto to be peaceful. young Magneto probably thought he could end the war before it even starts

 

[GasparZizou]

okay, at this point it's just opinion versus opinion. this could drag on forever.

but out of the love for polite debate, i'll very quickly give one last response...
- being locked up doesn't change the fact that magneto was made fully aware of the future peril should trask be killed. basic cause and effect remains, regardless. so yes, it's still foolishly self-defeating.
- upgrades aren't an issue. magneto's control of sentinels are only possible when there's ample access to metal in the vicinity. take that out of the equation in a sentinel ambush that lures him to, say a non-urban area, and he's screwed. with his hubris, it's not hard to bait the fella.

-It's not self defeating because Magneto knows how things could turn out, hence having the capacity to change the outcome, basic ability of "time travel"
-I think it shouldn't be a problem for magneto to find metal at all, c'mon.

Well it's just that you made great counter arguments and that always encourages good debate mah man

 

[tylerdurden]

-It's not self defeating because Magneto knows how things could turn out, hence having the capacity to change the outcome, basic ability of "time travel"
-I think it shouldn't be a problem for magneto to find metal at all, c'mon.

Well it's just that you made great counter arguments and that always encourages good debate mah man

- it's one thing to try and change the future. it's another to try and accomplish it by doing the very thing you know you're not supposed to. just like a human resistance fighter being sent back in time to protect sarah connor, knowing if she dies the future of mankind dies with her. but instead, the guy decides to kill her anyway. of course i know magneto is no kyle reese but the point is the same and so are the rules. magneto might not have known what would happen if he didn't kill trask (rewriting history as per basic time-travel lore) but he definitely knew what WOULD happen if he did kill trask. so he was foolishly disregarding known "facts".

- i said ample metal. we saw how much metal (from long lengths of railroad track) he required to seed the sentinels. there CAN be places he could be caught in where there's not as much metal. actually, it's not even the access to enough metal that's really the problem. if magneto gets ambushed suddenly by say, 20 sentinels, he simply will not be able to take control or overcome ALL of them in time. as we saw in the film, he got waylaid by beast in the fountain and got his butt kicked initially. it took a while for him to recover and gain the upper hand once more. and this is just one human-sized adversary. in a mass attack by sentinels out of the blue, he will not have the luxury of time to slowly seed the sentinels with metal, or even destroy every last one of them before at least one sentinel gets a clean shot and blows his head off.

anyway, this is probably as much grousing as i'd like to give over this movie. a movie i actually do like quite a bit. it's got a fair amount of flaws, but it also goes a loooong way in redressing the damage done to the franchise by previous instalments. i am now looking forward to "apocalypse".

btw gasparzizou, i believe this is the first time we've debated over any topic, but i must say it's a nice and refreshing change from having to deal with rude trolls on this board who are unable/unwilling to discuss things properly and quickly descend into personal insults. so cheers for that.