X-Men: Days of Future Past

[pturtle]

Joking aside no deaths as a result of a climactic battle in a fantasy adventure film is kind of lame. It was still a very good movie, best X-Men film even, but there's something wrong when movies based on young adult books for girls (Twilight and Hunger Games) have more peril in them.

Sorry, but how does Colossus getting ripped in half, Warpaths face being melted off, Sunspot’s arm being cut off, Blink impaled by 3 sentinels, and Iceman blown to pieces equal no death in the finally or being lighter than any Twilight film?

The future mutants were being killed off brutally throughout the final battle, more graphic than anything in TWS.

DOFP made TWS look like a Disney film…oh wait

 

[Khev]

That's my problem with what is an otherwise good movie, better than it had any business being.

Not only did Cap 2 have more action, better action, it also had some bad **** going down at the end, Cap allowing WS to pummel his face while DC is crumbling both literally and metaphorically around him.

DOFP, we got a sleeping Wolverine in his most bad ass costume and blades yet and an end battle where Magneto takes out his anger on 1970s gas guzzlers.

Yep, DOFP had a *great* atmosphere and vibe and some insanely cool visuals, but emotionally, I just wasn't invested and don't see that happening on repeat viewings now knowing how painless the adventure turned out for everybody.

Sorry, but how does Colossus getting ripped in half, Warpaths face being melted off, Sunspot’s arm being cut off, Blink impaled by 3 sentinels, and Iceman blown to pieces equal no death in the finally or being lighter than any Twilight film?

It's lighter because Twilight ended with a *gorier* battle than DOFP, and of course both movies ended with the final battle basically being "undone." Except there was still the one girl who got torched at the end of Breaking Dawn who wasn't saved through time travel so technically Twilight actually had a casualty in its final battle and DOFP didn't.

DOFP made TWS look like a Disney film…oh wait

I'll take a Disney film with real peril and lasting loss and emotional stakes over a non-Disney film without those things. Cap breaking Bucky's good arm, being bludgeoned repeatedly with the metal one, and then not even knowing that his buddy pulled him out of the water were all heartbreaking moments.

 

[pturtle]

Yep, DOFP had a *great* atmosphere and vibe and some insanely cool visuals, but emotionally, I just wasn't invested and don't see that happening on repeat viewings now knowing how painless the adventure turned out for everybody.



It's lighter because Twilight ended with a *gorier* battle than DOFP, and of course both movies ended with the final battle basically being "undone." Except there was still the one girl who got torched at the end of Breaking Dawn who wasn't saved through time travel so technically Twilight actually had a casualty in its final battle and DOFP didn't.



I'll take a Disney film with real peril and lasting loss and emotional stakes over a non-Disney film without those things.

I’ve never watched any Twilight film, but wouldn’t that make it’s ending gorier than TWS as well?

To each his own, I think the final battle in DOFP was much more graphic and brutal, and the ending was much more emotionally satisfying to me than TWS whether the deaths stuck or not.

I think we’re both just biased for our preferred superheros, but I was only correcting you and Jye for implying there weren’t any deaths in the final battle.

 

[jye4ever]

Those were soft deaths, future was changed.

 

[karamazov80]

Joking aside no deaths as a result of a climactic battle in a fantasy adventure film is kind of lame. It was still a very good movie, best X-Men film even, but there's something wrong when movies based on young adult books for girls (Twilight and Hunger Games) have more peril in them.

I'm assuming you're making an exception for the First Avenger, where Skull disappears into space and Cap gets frozen?

 

[DiFabio]

Yeah, First Avenger wasn't "Terminator" enough. What a piece of crap.

WRONG, the Hydra soldier flies into the propellers and explodes in a glorious blood explosion!

Still not as violent and grim as Terminator 2 doe . . .

 

[RIDDICK]

Joking aside no deaths as a result of a climactic battle in a fantasy adventure film is kind of lame.

This is no "Lord of the Rings", that's for sure

Yeah, First Avenger wasn't "Terminator" enough. What a piece of crap.
WRONG, the Hydra soldier flies into the propellers and explodes in a glorious blood explosion!

Not to mention all those soldiers melting into plasma while escaping from / charging on HYDRA.

 

[karamazov80]

I think Khev's bloolust is going to get to the point where he'll only be happy with gory, galactic destruction. I hope Snyder can deliver, and expect that he will.

 

[Khev]

I'm assuming you're making an exception for the First Avenger, where Skull disappears into space and Cap gets frozen?

As you've already been corrected, TFA rocked. That was pure Indiana Jones mayhem at the end with Allied soldiers getting vaporized, HYDRA troops getting blown away by shotguns and their own exploding flamethrowers, Cap stabbing them and releasing the one fighter pod before the guy could get in it causing him to fall to his death, the infamous propeller, and so on. If the only thing that was destroyed were some of HYDRA's vehicles, then yeah, you'd pretty much have DOFP. Thank God Johnston/Feige didn't go that route.

 

[Khev]

I’ve never watched any Twilight film, but wouldn’t that make it’s ending gorier than TWS as well?

To each his own, I think the final battle in DOFP was much more graphic and brutal, and the ending was much more emotionally satisfying to me than TWS whether the deaths stuck or not.

I think we’re both just biased for our preferred superheros, but I was only correcting you and Jye for implying there weren’t any deaths in the final battle.

I'm not sure where you're getting "gory" as I haven't said that in one of my posts. I'm just talking about actual casualties (and they don't count if they get reversed) just like I don't count Bucky or Fury's "deaths" as being casualties either. I've also been clear to mention that I don't think DOFP sucks or anything due to no loss of human or mutant life. It's still a good movie. As I said it has great atmosphere and visuals and I agree that the final curtain call was heartwarming. It just lacked a certain intensity that even Pixar movies like The Incredibles possess.

Remember the first Red Dawn when the Russian troops fired at the school? You just see a bunch of kids screaming and running and then they show that one student slumped out of the window, dead. Not gory at all but incredibly powerful and intense. DOFP easily could have achieved that while still being PG-13.

 

[karamazov80]

As you've already been corrected, TFA rocked. That was pure Indiana Jones mayhem at the end with Allied soldiers getting vaporized, HYDRA troops getting blown away by shotguns and their own exploding flamethrowers, Cap stabbing them and releasing the one fighter pod before the guy could get in it causing him to fall to his death, the infamous propeller, and so on. If the only thing that was destroyed were some of HYDRA's vehicles, then yeah, you'd pretty much have DOFP. Thank God Johnston/Feige didn't go that route.

Oh, I thought when you said "climactic final battle," you meant that, and not the extended sequence of action shots from the last chunk of the film or whatever. But we actually did see lots of violence and death in the future final battle in DOFP. I'm sorry that didn't satisfy your hunger for death and mayhem.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

Yep, DOFP had a *great* atmosphere and vibe and some insanely cool visuals, but emotionally, I just wasn't invested and don't see that happening on repeat viewings now knowing how painless the adventure turned out for everybody.

I just saw it a couple of days ago and thought it was fantastic.

I didn't even notice the lack of bloodshed in the 70s. I think it's interesting that I felt opposite of how Khev felt--that he wasn't invested emotionally. I think that is where the movie excelled and excelled above most other super hero movies. I cared strongly what happened to the characters and empathized completely with most of them. Every time Charles or Erik or someone would give an impassioned speech I swear I would start to well up. And damn if Erik isn't a cold hearted bastard, how he picked up the gun and was about to kill Raven.

It's that kind of emotional investment that I really find engages me the most in movies and especially action/sci-fi/fantasy movies. Sure, most genre movies nowadays have the visuals down pat. They know what art directors and cinematographers and stunt coordinators and effects shops to hire to make everything look cool. But it takes a superior director and screenwriter to make the audience care about the characters and about their goals. This movie did it in spades.

And I don't think the end battle in the 70s was about who would make it out alive and who wouldn't--we know the mutants survive at that point of history. So it wasn't about being in peril or performing death-defying feats. The confrontation and payoff was more cerebral and emotional and psychological. It was about the tension of the scene. The future of humanity and mutant kind was at stake, and you felt it. It hinged on words rather than actions and it felt great to see how a few words and NOT doing something could affect the future so dramatically in that kind of domino effect. And it was about strong character arcs. Charles got his groove back. Erik became public enemy #1. "Mystique" became Raven again. All that gave me a most satisfying resolution to the story.

Loved it.

I'll have to watch X1 and 2 again to see how they stack up against this one. I definitely liked it better than First Class, which I enjoyed for the most part--mostly the Charles and Erik relationship. And I won't even mention X3 or the 2 Wolverine movies. Those don't even register (except maybe The Wolverine which was passable, but still no where near DOFP).

 

[Khev]

Oh, I thought when you said "climactic final battle," you meant that, and not the extended sequence of action shots from the last chunk of the film or whatever. But we actually did see lots of violence and death in the future final battle in DOFP. I'm sorry that didn't satisfy your hunger for death and mayhem.

Yes when I spoke of the climactic final "battle" I meant the clash of the two opposing forces of the story that kicked off the 20 minute climax of the film. Not just the little brawl between the last two guys standing. I don't expect Cap to necessarily kill the Skull or the Winter Soldier or for Wolverine to kill Magneto in the final shot of the action sequence. But an entire 20 minute *battle* and no one dies? That's odd and takes me out of the movie. It makes me think that the director wanted certain visuals (Sentinels opening fire on the crowd) but was more concerned with randomly making the whole thing a G-rated experience instead of implying how things would actually play out in those circumstances. And its even more bizarre since people were getting violently "killed" in the future.

An off-screen death is much more powerful than someone getting disintegrated onscreen and then immediately resurrected. It just took me out of the movie, that's all. I'm not sure why that's upsetting to some people or some supposed cry for "more gore!!11!!" If it makes you feel any better it kind of took me out of Thor when the Destroyer showed up in New Mexico and conveniently only destroyed unoccupied cars and buildings.

 

[Khev]

I just saw it a couple of days ago and thought it was fantastic.

Hey that's great. I don't want to steer anyone away from loving the movie. I was just taken out of the movie because of certain preferences I have for these types of conflicts. We'll see how it plays on a 2nd and 3rd viewing (its definitely a day one blu-ray purchase.) Who knows, maybe I won't care and will just appreciate it more for what it is.

 

[karamazov80]

If it makes you feel any better it kind of took me out of Thor when the Destroyer showed up in New Mexico and conveniently only destroyed unoccupied cars and buildings.

No. Believe it or not, more evidence of your open admission of an expectation and sadistic enjoyment of excessive killing to cap off a movie doesn't make me feel better. It makes me feel worse

 

[Khev]

Two ingredients that make for a great superhero story:

1. Bad guys that are actually bad and kill people
2. Good guys that are actually good and don't kill people

DOFP failed at #1 and MOS failed at #2. TWS mastered both.

 

[karamazov80]

So you don't need a good story or anything? Hell, I think the Fantastic Four films succeed on those levels.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

Hey Khev, I know you're kinda ribbing us here but I know you're sincere about your criticisms. You're good in that you express it with respect and intelligence, so I don't take the least bit of offense.

I do think it's strange that you weren't emotionally invested in the characters or the outcome. However, I can't fault you on feeling that way because it's exactly how I felt about Cap:FA. For me, the movie hit all the emotional points on paper (Wimpy guy with a lot of heart and never gives up--check. A best friend who sticks with him when no one else does--check. Heartfelt talk with doctor so you care when he dies--check.). But I never FELT any of it. I think Winter Soldier is a bazillion times better than FA, and in fact makes me hate FA even more because it shows me how damn good a Cap movie can be and how amazing the first one could have been.

And I know how no bloodshed can, in some instances, take you out of a movie. The sanitized action in Last Crusade totally took me out of the movie when I first watched it in HS. But honestly I never even noticed that no one was hurt by the gunfire in DOFP. I didn't even notice it in Thor til you just mentioned it either! I think it's because scenes like that aren't about the massacre. If anything, I think it would be more distracting if we saw the police and civilians start dropping like flies at the gunfire and would just complicate things and take the focus away from the real confrontation.

 

[Khev]

So you don't need a good story or anything?

Nope!

All right funny guy, I didn't say the ONLY two ingredients that make for a great superhero story, those are just two very necessary ones IMO.

 

[Khev]

Hey Khev, I know you're kinda ribbing us here but I know you're sincere about your criticisms. You're good in that you express it with respect and intelligence, so I don't take the least bit of offense.

Okay good.

I do think it's strange that you weren't emotionally invested in the characters or the outcome. However, I can't fault you on feeling that way because it's exactly how I felt about Cap:FA. For me, the movie hit all the emotional points on paper (Wimpy guy with a lot of heart and never gives up--check. A best friend who sticks with him when no one else does--check. Heartfelt talk with doctor so you care when he dies--check.). But I never FELT any of it. I think Winter Soldier is a bazillion times better than FA, and in fact makes me hate FA even more because it shows me how damn good a Cap movie can be and how amazing the first one could have been.

And I know how no bloodshed can, in some instances, take you out of a movie. The sanitized action in Last Crusade totally took me out of the movie when I first watched it in HS.

Was the action in TLC sanitized? I haven't watched it in a while but remember the tank battle to be pretty violent.

But honestly I never even noticed that no one was hurt by the gunfire in DOFP. I didn't even notice it in Thor til you just mentioned it either! I think it's because scenes like that aren't about the massacre. If anything, I think it would be more distracting if we saw the police and civilians start dropping like flies at the gunfire and would just complicate things and take the focus away from the real confrontation.

I just think they could have done something like Red Dawn (or hell the one ewok who dies in ROTJ.) Just show the Sentinels opening fire on police cars, then people running and screaming, and then as people clear out we see three or four bodies in the grass near the cars. That's it. Not a horrifying bloodbath or anything, just a little something to make the audience go "damn, this is harsh, people need to stop Magneto NOW."

It just didn't seem Magneto's style to go for a "Human Casualties: 0.0" approach.