Adam West went surfing with the Joker once. I don't dislike tropical environments at all because they usually have water and vegetation. I like the Pirates films and Water World too.
A tropical environment could work for Batman at night and also if there's a volcano involved. Batman in Hawaii can work with the right villain.
Batman in a nighttime tropical setting would remind me of The Incredibles. Especially if you add that volcano base. But I'd probably like it because it would be more exotic at least. Nice contrast too.
In spite of him gong everywhere and doing everything in the comics, my favourite Batman doesn?t leave Gotham. It?s the niche he evolved in, the apex predator.
You don?t put Polar Bears in the jungle or Great White Sharks in the desert.
Besides, I always pictured Gotham?s climate favourable for his suit. Would *not* want to wear that get-up in the tropics.
I'm surprised they haven't done it. The old Kenner Batman Returns toys always had tons of variant costumes like "Artic Batman" and "Hydro Charge Batman". A variant tropical modified suit Batman would sell toys, which is the main goal of Superhero films and blockbusters. Also, a tropical nighttime environment can also work for a Bruce Wayne espionage sequence like a James Bond film. They can also include King Shark as a henchman in the film since he fits the environment. The change of scenery would actually be refreshing and unexpected.
There are way to make Croc a humanoid freak, so he can be grounded. Clayface, not so much but his ability to morph and use his his body and limbs like the T-1000 makes for good action in comics and cartoons. He wouldn't work in the Pattison film, but in the Batffleck universe I could see it. King Shark, Man Bat and other monsters are good for a villain of the week comic or tv show. I think that's why the exist really. You need a mindless action oriented episode or comic in between the more interesting villains.
Clayface could be an interesting villain because he could in theory impersonate Batman and maybe even find out Batman's identity by being able to mimic his appareance, so that could be a good story, but his origin and motivation would need to be updated for him to be a main villain in a movie. Unless, he's not a monster and just wears a costume, like the original version of the character before he had powers.
Croc is just a monster in the sewer though, not sure why Batman is involved. If he's eating people then again he's just a monster, send in the police. Its when they try to make him more it becomes silly. The cunning freak in the sewer. Meh. He'd make a good sidekick for a proper villain. The muscle. That's all.
Clayface is just Sandman. Both are silly. Fine for comics, not right for more grounded movies.
King Shark is just dumb. Jaws fandom.
I love unusual and wild villains, but I also love them to be based on something tangible and semi-believable. Joker, Riddler, Penguin, Two-Face, Mr. Freeze even, all great villains. Freeze stretches the limits of believability to their limit for me. He's right on the edge. And he's one of my favorites. Any further and you get into Clayface territory.
That all said, Batman still has the BEST VILLAINS hands down of any comic or superhero, EVER! Mostly because the good ones are grounded.
"Raiders of the Lost Ark" is a completely flawless, absolutely perfect movie.
I recreated the opening scene of "Raiders" in our garden countless times when I was a little lad in the 90s. I would set up ****y traps and get my little brother to trigger them as I ran through the temple. I made a Fertility Idol out of gold foil and would have a bag of mud to swap the Idol with. Sadly, there are no photos of me doing this, but there is a home video!
When I first joined the forum, it was a tough choice between having an Indy ID or a Batman ID. "Batman" as a character is pretty much tied with "Indiana Jones" as my favourite fictional character of all time. However, I respectfully believe that there has not yet been a perfect movie adaptation of Batman. The closest thing to my ideal "feel" of what Batman should be is the Michael Keaton/Tim Burton movies (grouped nicely with the 90s Bruce Timm/Kevin Conroy animated series). That, to me, is the best Batman on any screen to date. I like Nolan's movies, but truthfully it is only really "Batman Begins" that feels like a Batman movie to me. I found "The Dark Knight" to be a generic crime drama, albeit an impressive one. Not a Batman movie.
Croc is just a monster in the sewer though, not sure why Batman is involved. If he's eating people then again he's just a monster, send in the police. Its when they try to make him more it becomes silly. The cunning freak in the sewer. Meh. He'd make a good sidekick for a proper villain. The muscle. That's all.
Clayface is just Sandman. Both are silly. Fine for comics, not right for more grounded movies.
King Shark is just dumb. Jaws fandom.
I love unusual and wild villains, but I also love them to be based on something tangible and semi-believable. Joker, Riddler, Penguin, Two-Face, Mr. Freeze even, all great villains. Freeze stretches the limits of believability to their limit for me. He's right on the edge. And he's one of my favorites. Any further and you get into Clayface territory.
That all said, Batman still has the BEST VILLAINS hands down of any comic or superhero, EVER! Mostly because the good ones are grounded.
"Raiders of the Lost Ark" is a completely flawless, absolutely perfect movie.
I recreated the opening scene of "Raiders" in our garden countless times when I was a little lad in the 90s. I would set up ****y traps and get my little brother to trigger them as I ran through the temple. I made a Fertility Idol out of gold foil and would have a bag of mud to swap the Idol with. Sadly, there are no photos of me doing this, but there is a home video!
When I first joined the forum, it was a tough choice between having an Indy ID or a Batman ID. "Batman" as a character is pretty much tied with "Indiana Jones" as my favourite fictional character of all time. However, I respectfully believe that there has not yet been a perfect movie adaptation of Batman. The closest thing to my ideal "feel" of what Batman should be is the Michael Keaton/Tim Burton movies (grouped nicely with the 90s Bruce Timm/Kevin Conroy animated series). That, to me, is the best Batman on any screen to date. I like Nolan's movies, but truthfully it is only really "Batman Begins" that feels like a Batman movie to me. I found "The Dark Knight" to be a generic crime drama, albeit an impressive one. Not a Batman movie.
I really don't know Spiderman's universe of villains too well but I remember in the comics he had some pretty silly ones (to me) like Scorpion and other 'animal' baddies. My favorites as a kid (like everyone else) were Green Goblin and Doc Ock. What are some of the other great SpiderMan villains?
Total agreement. Even made my own little Raiders Super8 movie when I was a wee lad myself.
I really don't know Spiderman's universe of villains too well but I remember in the comics he had some pretty silly ones (to me) like Scorpion and other 'animal' baddies. My favorites as a kid (like everyone else) were Green Goblin and Doc Ock. What are some of the other great SpiderMan villains?
Oh yes, definitely I can see that some of Spidey's rogues gallery can come across as being a little "silly". But, to me, that's all part of the Spider-Man character and his world; he will often mock and bad-mouth his villains as he combats them, and I love the stark contrast of Peter Parker trying to live a normal life with balancing a job, his home life, relationships, with the sometimes ridiculous and outlandish nonsense that happens in his life as Spider-Man. Spider-Man is actually my 3rd favourite fictional character of all time, after Batman and Indiana Jones!
Of Spider-Man's villains, I would say my favourites are;
1. The Green Goblin - Goblin is to Spider-Man what The Joker is to Batman. He is the quintessential arch nemesis to Spidey. Yes, his costume is silly and suggests insanity, and that is absolutely correct. But, underneath the mental instability, there is a very clever, calculating, manipulative and very evil individual. Norman Osborn (the Goblin's civilian persona), even becomes head of H.A.M.M.E.R. (which replaces S.H.I.E.L.D.) in the comic books.
2. Mysterio - I've always felt that Mysterio is to Spider-Man what Scarecrow is to Batman. I love the idea of using special effects, hallucinations and mind games to control and inflict pain on his enemies. But yes, the fishbowl is bizarre. But also, so cool.
3. Kraven - Again, this character can look silly at surface level. But, dig deeper, and you will discover an incredibly interesting and compelling villain. As a hunter of the natural world's most dangerous prey, Kraven considers Spider-Man to be the ultimate game, and becomes obsessed with hunting Spidey down. His obsession takes over his life so much that (this is a commonly known story arc from a great comic book released in 1987, but will put spoiler tags in, just in case)...
when Kraven finally "kills" Spider-Man, he feels he has accomplished the only thing that seemed to matter in his life any more. With nothing else left to live for, Kraven commits suicide. It turns out that Kraven had actually shot Spider-Man with a tranquilizer dart laced with a very heavy sedative, so that, when Spider-Man eventually reawakens, he will live to know that Kraven finally won and "killed" him.
4. Kingpin - sometimes you just love a villain that is simply an evil criminal mastermind, with no superpowers.
5. Venom - A wonderfully outlandish premise; Spider-Man gets a new costume which turns out to be a malevolent, sentient alien life form that slowly begins to change Spider-Man for the worse. When Spidey finally rejects the "costume", it bonds with another person that has been wronged by Peter Parker, taking all of it's knowledge of Parker and his personal life with it. A double whammy of Parker/Spider-Man hatred and obsession. The split personality element of Venom is really interesting. Oh, and Venom doesn't trigger Spider-Man's spider-sense.
And that's before we even get to Dr. Octopus!
An honorable mention will go to one of Spider-Man's more contemporary villains - Morlun. He was introduced in 2001, originally as a vampire-style villain that wanted to kill Spider-Man as Spidey is, infact, a totem (and Morlun was dedicated to destroying Spider totems). Morlun has since then become the main antagonist of a really fun Spider-Man arc in which he and his family must attempt to kill every version of Spider-Man in the multiverse. Again, it's all very outlandish compared to Batman, but I love it.
Not sure I see the deep and compelling aspect to Kraven; the Great White Hunter icon has been used to death and obsession driven to madness comes across as nothing more than a light Capt Ahab. But I suppose if these were your first introductions to these themes then they may appear deep and compelling rather than clich?d.
Kingpin I like, sometimes simple is best -- didn't know he was considered a Spiderman villain.
And I never cared for Venom too much as the impossible vampire blob BUT I do see the value in reflecting Spiderman's dark side -- and its always necessary to have the hero confront "himself" in these sorts of melodramas, so despite my opinion of its design Venom's function is important.
Still though, I find those villains mostly pale in comparison to Joker, Riddler, Penguin, Catwoman, Freeze, Two-Face, Bane, Scarecrow, and a handful of others that make up Batman's world. It is hard to come up with a competing list that long of strong, well-known and recognizable villains for any other comic book superhero... perhaps even any movie hero other than maybe Bond.
Not sure I see the deep and compelling aspect to Kraven; the Great White Hunter icon has been used to death and obsession driven to madness comes across as nothing more than a light Capt Ahab. But I suppose if these were your first introductions to these themes then they may appear deep and compelling rather than clich?d.
Kingpin I like, sometimes simple is best -- didn't know he was considered a Spiderman villain.
I am familiar with it, as Dark_Knight mentioned it in his post. I guess it doesn't translate in short for me. Or again, its an age thing.
Daredevil is the one I more associate Kingpin with, yes. But he's a great and colorful Boss like the Penguin who sticks out in a very crowded playing field.
I am familiar with it, as Dark_Knight mentioned it in his post. I guess it doesn't translate in short for me. Or again, its an age thing.
Daredevil is the one I more associate Kingpin with, yes. But he's a great and colorful Boss like the Penguin who sticks out in a very crowded playing field.
You are right though, people like Bob Kane, Jerry Robinson, Bill Finger pretty much invented the archetype villains and people like Lee, Kirby, Ditko could only follow in their footsteps.
If that's the case then the rest of DC and the Justice League are too magical for Batman and Christopher Nolan had it right that Batman should be his own separate thing. To be honest, after the DCEU movies I'm leaning towards that view - until proven otherwise.
