Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon

[MeatHookGekko]

Snyder's style is undeniably polarizing, that's a hard fact. I'm actually fascinated about possible reasons why... which kind of have to be speculative in nature, by definition... and I have proposed a possible explanation about how symbolic images theoretically work (I mean, if you disagree no worries, but take that up with Carl Gustavus Jung and Joseph Campbell!). The Lord of the Flies comment was glib, but it gets at a primal human instinct that we obviously witness all the time in the world, and it shows up in all sorts of ways. It's not surprising that it would for a film like this. It's never fully conscious when it happens.

Again, please step back for a moment and look soberly at what doing here.

 

[T8OO]

Umm no a thought is personal. Like you being upset at people saying Negative things about RM and then going after them about it.

Blanket blaming like saying everyone who says something bad about RM is biased towards ZS is just incorrect and factually wrong.

Unless you've unearthed some stone tablets with a solemn decree of what I'm doing, I'm just going to put it down to that is what you -think- I'm doing.

I haven't said everyone though. I'm old enough to know we don't all like the same stuff. I don't have the slightest issue with someone expressing what they think about it.
My point was I didn't understand why some people would keep it going and repeat the same complaints about the same content to the same people.

 

[Kebron]

Unless you've unearthed some stone tablets with a solemn decree of what I'm doing, I'm just going to put it down to that is what you -think- I'm doing.

I haven't said everyone though. I'm old enough to know we don't all like the same stuff. I don't have the slightest issue with someone expressing what they think about it.
My point was I didn't understand why some people would keep it going and repeat the same complaints about the same content to the same people.

So you are ok with blanket accusations? Cause that is what you are doing.

You don’t need to understand why some people do what they do. Going after them the way you have isn’t going to help you understand any better. If you truly wanted to “understand” you would be approaching this totally different then you have.

 

[generalszabo]

I liked the movie enough to want to see the next part, but I must admit I was a bit bored throughout a lot of it. After a while, I checked the timing and said aloud "It's only been an hour?!" Each time I thought the movie was ending, it kept going and then when it finally ended, it didn't feel like an ending unlike earlier beats in the film. I usually don't mind his slow-mo shots either as they tend to add to the shots in my opinion, but, in this movie, they seemed to be put at random moments, almost forcibly so just b/c it's a ZS movie and we gotta have slow-mo. I didn't find them to enhance any of the shots they chose to use it on. Didn't care for Sofia Boutella or her character for a majority of the film either, aside from the backstory scenes.

It was pretty disappointing for me as I tend to like much of Snyder's work and, sadly, I can understand why Disney/Lucasfilm passed on this as an idea for SW. I'm not as excited for Pt2 as I was for Pt1 but I still want to see where the story goes and how it finishes.

I wish I'd waited for the inevitable R-rated director's cut, as this watered down version isn't great

 

[T8OO]

So you are ok with blanket accusations? Cause that is what you are doing.

You don’t need to understand why some people do what they do. Going after them the way you have isn’t going to help you understand any better. If you truly wanted to “understand” you would be approaching this totally different then you have.

We've been over this. You think I am, I don't.

I didn't say I wanted to understand, I just stated that I didn't.

 

[T8OO]

I wish I'd waited for the inevitable R-rated director's cut, as this watered down version isn't great

If you are watching Part 2, will you be waiting for both R-rated cuts or watching PG-13 Part 2 in April?

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Data shows what? That the general audience now won't go and see a superhero movie as something to do?

The data shows that Zack Snyder has lost some of his "bankability" in the industry.

Don't get me wrong, he's still a "brand name" and there are clearly some things he does very very well and he's made some genuine hits. But if you have to compromise your creative vision, to an actual narrative detriment, then you don't get to call your own shots.

Martin Scorsese's The Irishman is an exercise in pure vanity. The massive expense to "de-age" Robert DeNiro and have him limp around and pretend to be 40 years young in some scenes is awkward and only really suited DeNiro's narcissism. But Scorsese has that pure cache. Like a few select other filmmakers, he can call his own shots. Zack Snyder was certainly near that position primed to head towards that status ( he had 300 and Man Of Steel under his belt, etc) then he blew his chance. M. Night Shamalyan was there once. He had everyone in the industry begging to finance his projects and work with him for pennies on the dollar. He had carte blanche in casting and even got to make a film about Marky Mark running from "wind that killed people" He blew it as well.

So I don't agree with coordinated "review bombing" a film before it even releases. It doesn't matter who or why, it's not good for anyone involved. It could be Hillbilly Elegy, it could be Sound Of Freedom, it could be The Marvels or She Hulk, it could be Zack Snyder, there's no value in it at all. I also acknowledge that there are "independent media pundits" with a moderate platform, usually through some form of social media, where their engagement is built purely on "hate watching" and "nihilism porn" on anything that comes out from a mainstream production. They are literally monetizing their outrage. It's just exhausting failed shock marketing and outrage porn to try to keep driving new content to hold onto their "individual brand" I won't deny any of that as well.

But everything that Snyder does that tanks reduces his future pathway towards true creative freedom. For whatever reason that his most passionate fans can come up with to mount a defense for Snyder on any matter, that part of the equation is undeniable. Snyder got the financing for Rebel Moon based on what he did in the past, not on the actual merits of the Rebel Moon concept. But your cache only lasts so long before you are required to deliver a hit. Will Smith really didn't want to do Bad Boys 3. But he hit a stall in what he was making and it wasn't generate the numbers of his early career success. Very likely he'll have to dip back into the past with I Am Legend Part 2 and functionally retcon the ending of the first film because he'll have to revisit an old hit to try to regain some career traction.

Snyder needs a big hit. And soon. Something that safely keeps most critics and pundits as neutral at minimum and generates the kind of raw numbers that make people sit up and pay attention. Rebel Moon is not it. The extended cut of Rebel Moon will likely also not be it. That's not just an individual movie goer perspective, now I'm giving you an actual industry perspective. This is like having a friend from high school who peaked in college. Everyone knows someone like that. The fun times you had in college and high school, that's nostalgia, but as you get older, that "cache" with the past means less and less when you start to have less and less in common with someone. So it's not just Snyder, it's all of us, especially all the guys here. We have to deliver. At some point, we are expected to bring home the big win. Or do it with enough staggered frequency that it's trusted that we can still do it. It's sad it's how most interpersonal dynamics breaks down in our society and culture, into such mercenary terms. But this is how the world works. It's also how the industry works.

If you love Rebel Moon and Zack Snyder, personally I think that's great. Because I don't enjoy it doesn't mean you can't. But at this rate of return, you are going to start getting less, not more, of the Zack Snyder you personally love, unless he starts to actually deliver. The rationalizations, defenses, and even sometimes gaslighting I'm seeing in this thread and out there in the world won't change any of that.

From an industry standpoint, if Snyder keeps making stuff like Rebel Moon, he'll start to gradually lose the ability to make stuff like Rebel Moon. "Gradually" is being diplomatic and generous when I'm gaming out the practical financing metrics in my head now. This is one aspect where it moves beyond "Everyone is going to have a different opinion" to "This is just how it's going to actually work in real logistical terms right now" That's the deal. That's how this works. Not just for Snyder, but for everyone.

 

[Kebron]

We've been over this. You think I am, I don't.

I didn't say I wanted to understand, I just stated that I didn't.

That’s not an answer. Are you ok with blanket accusations. It’s not a I think thing it’s a simple yes or no.

If you have no interest in understanding then why engage at all?

 

[Kebron]

If you love Rebel Moon and Zack Snyder, personally I think that's great. Because I don't enjoy it doesn't mean you can't. But at this rate of return, you are going to start getting less, not more, of the Zack Snyder you personally love, unless he starts to actually deliver. The rationalizations, defenses, and even sometimes gaslighting I'm seeing in this thread and out there in the world won't change any of that.

This. All of this right here sums up everything.

It’s not everyone is bias, it’s not a coordinated attack or conspiracy. It’s people who enjoyed a movie where most others found it “meh” trying to justify their feelings for it.

 

[Wor-Gar]

M. Night Shamalyan ... even got to make a film about Marky Mark running from "wind that killed people" He blew it as well.

 

[T8OO]

The data shows that Zack Snyder has lost some of his "bankability" in the industry.

Don't get me wrong, he's still a "brand name" and there are clearly some things he does very very well and he's made some genuine hits. But if you have to compromise your creative vision, to an actual narrative detriment, then you don't get to call your own shots.

Martin Scorsese's The Irishman is an exercise in pure vanity. The massive expense to "de-age" Robert DeNiro and have him limp around and pretend to be 40 years young in some scenes is awkward and only really suited DeNiro's narcissism. But Scorsese has that pure cache. Like a few select other filmmakers, he can call his own shots. Zack Snyder was certainly near that position primed to head towards that status ( he had 300 and Man Of Steel under his belt, etc) then he blew his chance. M. Night Shamalyan was there once. He had everyone in the industry begging to finance his projects and work with him for pennies on the dollar. He had carte blanche in casting and even got to make a film about Marky Mark running from "wind that killed people" He blew it as well.

So I don't agree with coordinated "review bombing" a film before it even releases. It doesn't matter who or why, it's not good for anyone involved. It could be Hillbilly Elegy, it could be Sound Of Freedom, it could be The Marvels or She Hulk, it could be Zack Snyder, there's no value in it at all. I also acknowledge that there are "independent media pundits" with a moderate platform, usually through some form of social media, where their engagement is built purely on "hate watching" and "nihilism porn" on anything that comes out from a mainstream production. They are literally monetizing their outrage. It's just exhausting failed shock marketing and outrage porn to try to keep driving new content to hold onto their "individual brand" I won't deny any of that as well.

But everything that Snyder does that tanks reduces his future pathway towards true creative freedom. For whatever reason that his most passionate fans can come up with to mount a defense for Snyder on any matter, that part of the equation is undeniable. Snyder got the financing for Rebel Moon based on what he did in the past, not on the actual merits of the Rebel Moon concept. But your cache only lasts so long before you are required to deliver a hit. Will Smith really didn't want to do Bad Boys 3. But he hit a stall in what he was making and it wasn't generate the numbers of his early career success. Very likely he'll have to dip back into the past with I Am Legend Part 2 and functionally retcon the ending of the first film because he'll have to revisit an old hit to try to regain some career traction.

Snyder needs a big hit. And soon. Something that safely keeps most critics and pundits as neutral at minimum and generates the kind of raw numbers that make people sit up and pay attention. Rebel Moon is not it. The extended cut of Rebel Moon will likely also not be it. That's not just an individual movie goer perspective, now I'm giving you an actual industry perspective. This is like having a friend from high school who peaked in college. Everyone knows someone like that. The fun times you had in college and high school, that's nostalgia, but as you get older, that "cache" with the past means less and less when you start to have less and less in common with someone. So it's not just Snyder, it's all of us, especially all the guys here. We have to deliver. At some point, we are expected to bring home the big win. Or do it with enough staggered frequency that it's trusted that we can still do it. It's sad it's how most interpersonal dynamics breaks down in our society and culture, into such mercenary terms. But this is how the world works. It's also how the industry works.

If you love Rebel Moon and Zack Snyder, personally I think that's great. Because I don't enjoy it doesn't mean you can't. But at this rate of return, you are going to start getting less, not more, of the Zack Snyder you personally love, unless he starts to actually deliver. The rationalizations, defenses, and even sometimes gaslighting I'm seeing in this thread and out there in the world won't change any of that.

From an industry standpoint, if Snyder keeps making stuff like Rebel Moon, he'll start to gradually lose the ability to make stuff like Rebel Moon. "Gradually" is being diplomatic and generous when I'm gaming out the practical financing metrics in my head now. This is one aspect where it moves beyond "Everyone is going to have a different opinion" to "This is just how it's going to actually work in real logistical terms right now" That's the deal. That's how this works. Not just for Snyder, but for everyone.

That's a good write up but what does that have to do with data that shows superhero movies are underperforming?

 

[T8OO]

That’s not an answer. Are you ok with blanket accusations. It’s not a I think thing it’s a simple yes or no.

If you have no interest in understanding then why engage at all?

I was responding to a comment and I shared my experience.

 

[T8OO]

This. All of this right here sums up everything.

It’s not everyone is bias, it’s not a coordinated attack or conspiracy. It’s people who enjoyed a movie where most others found it “meh” trying to justify their feelings for it.

That sounds a bit blankety and not very facty.

 

[Kebron]

I was responding to a comment and I shared my experience.

You were dodging a questions again.

Do you think blanket accusations are fine?

 

[Kebron]

That sounds a bit blankety and not very facty.

Sounds like you saw a little to much of yourself in my comment.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Blankety...? Oh, so warm and cozy...

 

[ironwez20]

I like how alatar kinda started the whole argument and kinda dipped from the thread. I think he’s probably Zach in disguise just like zurdo is Brie Larson. Lots of celebrities on this forum.
Always had a sneaking suspicion that jye was Jim Carey

 

[Khev]

Alatar reporting back to ZS:

 

[ironwez20]

Alatar reporting back to ZS:

I’m dying! Lmao

 

[JacktheRipper]

Haven't seen Alatar, so I think it was closer to this: