Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon

[MeatHookGekko]

I was able to procure an exclusive image of the opening scene of Rebel Moon Part 2

Spoiler

 

[T8OO]

I knew I’d get a big one lol

Here's me hoping for a decent argument against my point.

 

[T8OO]

He put 100 Easter eggs into his masterful movie bvs huh? Was it Easter eggs pertaining to the actual dc universe or stupid things like “Bruce doing chin ups signify how jet fuel can’t burn building beams”

Are they the only options? DC or chin-ups/jet fuel?

 

[wormlander]

Give me a sequel to District 9 instead

This is the way...

 

[T8OO]

I want to take in the entire full length film experience of Part 1 and 2 extended cuts together before I dare to propose with confidence specifically what I think Snyder is likely commenting on by taking up a similar blueprint that George Lucas used (Star Wars sources and analogues - Wikipedia) of cobbling together a tale deliberately from a wide variety of film sources. Lucas was doing it… and I’m pretty confident in asserting this aspect… with the intention to create a mythos/story that would have very broad appeal with the cinema-going masses. And of course a movie that would find the sweet spot between something that feels innovative, fresh, and original but is clearly drawing heavily from source inspirations. (Lucas obviously succeeded!)

In the article I linked above it mentions just how powerfully Lucas was influenced by Joseph Campbell’s Hero With a Thousand Faces, i.e., his thesis on the collective unconscious, myth, archetype, and “the hero’s journey,” (scholarly term is “monomyth”). These unconscious forces, psychological processes, etc., produce what Jung conceived of as the collective unconscious. It’s a theoretical construct of course, but there is ample evidence to support the theory. But anyway, I mean, just watch Joseph Campbell comment on this subject himself in the PBS series from the 80s, “The Power of Myth.”* Campbell is all about the impersonal, transpersonal, and collective nature of myths and archetypes. And remember, Campbell was Lucas’ chief creative consultant for ANH! (Something it seems Campbell clearly took great pride in, and rightly so. Fun fact: Yoda is partially influenced by Campbell.)

Zack Snyder has said that he as well is hugely influenced by Joseph Campbell, and specifically Campbell’s concept of the monomyth. Snyder too is deeply fascinated by myth/archetype/monomyth and how to use it creatively as a filmmaker. So there’s a layer at which I’m sure Zack wants to do the same thing that Lucas did, while updating it from 1977.

But I’m already wondering if the commentary Zack is making might have to do with how a personal artistic vision of a director is fundamentally at odds with the economic and market forces that actually make the film production possible. I outlined a brief introduction to that idea here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Snyderverse/s/Y8aZdWxfCv

Another difference between Lucas’ is that Zack was a teenager to young adult coming of age during the 80s. And some of the pop culture movies that blew him away during those formative years were violent, gritty, and more sexualized movies like Heavy Metal and Road Warrior; and he was similarly influenced as a young painter (he went to art school to be a painter first) by Frank Frazetta’s commercial work for book covers. He said that’s he always envisioned a Star Wars type film but in that grittier and more sexualized style.

Another major difference between Lucas’ Star Wars and Snyder’s Rebel Moon is that Zack has very explicitly and openly described himself as a “subversive” filmmaker. He basically has said he’s not out to soothe the viewer by giving them comfort food—or at least he is not doing strictly that in order to get approval, etc. He’s more interested in challenging the viewer to shift their perspective through what he’s doing. As part of that artistic project he wants the viewer to cipher out what he encodes, which makes the film a more interactive experience that way. For example, Zack has described putting over 100 Easter eggs into his masterful (yes, masterful) deconstruction of the superhero genre, BvS.

Oh what the heck… I will inch out out on a limb even now, I guess:

This may be a stretch… and if Zack says something to indicate he’s aiming for something very different I’ll happily concede that it’s off base, etc… But I have to wonder of the PG13 cut is maybe even intended to deliberately (and incredibly subversively!) illustrate that the heart and soul of what he wishes to do for this story is basically ripped out when it is edited for the same demographic that Lucas was making 1977 Star Wars for. Like basically that his true artistic vision can’t survive that surgery, lol.

I’ll be interested to see how this speculation holds up when we see the R-rated extended cut.

*

A great write-up! It will be interesting to see how Part 2 and the extended versions shape what we think of these.

I must say you are keeping this very positive with the negativity being thrown around in here.

 

[Sassafras]

Another difference between Lucas’ is that Zack was a teenager to young adult coming of age during the 80s. And some of the pop culture movies that blew him away during those formative years were violent, gritty, and more sexualized movies like Heavy Metal and Road Warrior; and he was similarly influenced as a young painter (he went to art school to be a painter first) by Frank Frazetta’s commercial work for book covers. He said that’s he always envisioned a Star Wars type film but in that grittier and more sexualized style.

Another major difference between Lucas’ Star Wars and Snyder’s Rebel Moon is that Zack has very explicitly and openly described himself as a “subversive” filmmaker. He basically has said he’s not out to soothe the viewer by giving them comfort food—or at least he is not doing strictly that in order to get approval, etc. He’s more interested in challenging the viewer to shift their perspective through what he’s doing. As part of that artistic project he wants the viewer to cipher out what he encodes, which makes the film a more interactive experience that way. For example, Zack has described putting over 100 Easter eggs into his masterful (yes, masterful) deconstruction of the superhero genre, BvS.

So OK you are fine liking what you like. I love the Hobbit movies and think they don't get the appreciation they deserve, while LOTR is held up as a masterpiece which IMO it sure isn't, but I like it too. IMO Lake Placid is an absolute gem.

I don't like Nolan's Batman movies but there's no way I could say those films aren't well crafted. There's a particular style, vision, narrative beats.

For myself tho - re Snyder that's all well and good; except, Rebel Moon isn't subversive or IMO well crafted. And Snyder doesn't seem to be able to understand there's paying homage like Lucas did, but executing in a way that was wholly unique. For that matter Tolkien drew on an astounding variety of influences to craft his "imagined mythology of England" and produced something unique.

I could see what Snyder was trying to do. But he needs to take his foot off the gas, or something. Like when he put out Dawn of Justice and the screen is so dark you have to squint to see what's going on. Rebel Moon isn't anything any fantasy fan hasn't seen before, or read before. But it just rolls along, indifferent to its own tepid script and awkward editing, hoping slo-mo shots and weird color saturation will pass for depth. It doesn't, it's just boring.

 

[T8OO]

So OK you are fine liking what you like. I love the Hobbit movies and think they don't get the appreciation they deserve, while LOTR is held up as a masterpiece which IMO it sure isn't, but I like it too. IMO Lake Placid is an absolute gem.

I don't like Nolan's Batman movies but there's no way I could say those films aren't well crafted. There's a particular style, vision, narrative beats.

For myself tho - re Snyder that's all well and good; except, Rebel Moon isn't subversive or IMO well crafted. And Snyder doesn't seem to be able to understand there's paying homage like Lucas did, but executing in a way that was wholly unique. For that matter Tolkien drew on an astounding variety of influences to craft his "imagined mythology of England" and produced something unique.

I could see what Snyder was trying to do. But he needs to take his foot off the gas, or something. Like when he put out Dawn of Justice and the screen is so dark you have to squint to see what's going on. Rebel Moon isn't anything any fantasy fan hasn't seen before, or read before. But it just rolls along, indifferent to its own tepid script and awkward editing, hoping slo-mo shots and weird color saturation will pass for depth. It doesn't, it's just boring.

The whole movie or just some of it?

 

[ironwez20]

Here's me hoping for a decent argument against my point.

Oh there’s no argument I’d just knew you’d fall for that obvious bait. And while lazer swords have been done before Star Wars popularized it and did it well this was done as a homage/rip off and done poorly

 

[ironwez20]

A great write-up! It will be interesting to see how Part 2 and the extended versions shape what we think of these.

I must say you are keeping this very positive with the negativity being thrown around in here.

What negativity are you seeing my guy? People disagreeing with you? Buffinator and others debating with valid points in a respectful manner? Or by negativity do you mean we aren’t in a “we love Snyder” hug fest.
And we are the ones who follow like sheep in a group think? Lol

 

[T8OO]

Oh there’s no argument I’d just knew you’d fall for that obvious bait. And while lazer swords have been done before Star Wars popularized it and did it well this was done as a homage/rip off and done poorly

I'm more interested in the discussion than what you are trying to achieve.

 

[ironwez20]

I'm more interested in the discussion than what you are trying to achieve.

I mean I am discussing. I said that those lightsabers are a a rip off. Light blades. Whatever you want to call them

 

[T8OO]

What negativity are you seeing my guy? People disagreeing with you? Buffinator and others debating with valid points in a respectful manner? Or by negativity do you mean we aren’t in a “we love Snyder” hug fest.
And we are the ones who follow like sheep in a group think? Lol

A good portion of the people here don't like the movie and have been speaking negatively of it.

 

[Alatar]

He put 100 Easter eggs into his masterful movie bvs huh? Was it Easter eggs pertaining to the actual dc universe or stupid things like “Bruce doing chin ups signify how jet fuel can’t burn building?

lol what? No, some of it is more stuff like in the spirit of what this article identifies:

Zack Snyder’s DCEU Is a Nine-Hour Joyride Through Decades of Comic Book History

But there’s other stuff beyond just comic book references. A few years ago there was a contest that a fan organized to identify Easter eggs, and Zack confirmed over a hundred of them. There‘s an article somewhere that lists them all, but I‘ll have to hunt for it.

One I can think of atm though, is that while I’m pretty sure Zack Snyder isn’t a Truther re: the 9-11 attack, Superman grappling with Zod as buildings are falling because of their fight resembles the iconic image of 9-11’s the “Falling Man.” BvS is basically a Batman film. It takes up the theme that Frank Miller envisioned in TDKR of Batman at the end of his crime fighting career (retired actually) being jaded, burnt out, and disillusioned, in a sort of existential crisis wondering if what he worked for his whole life was in fact nothing more than a big joke as Joker asserted. Snyder ties that in to the more mythic theme of a fall from grace, a “fall” from Batman’s original ideal to try to avoid killing at all costs. That in turn ties in with the impact of deconstruction of comic books witnessed in 1986 with Watchmen and TDKR. Like once you have really allowed deconstruction to sink in and do its thing to the psyche, it’s hard to innocently enjoy the superhero genre as you did before that. Like you can’t go home again, etc. Anyway, in the opening dream sequence that Bruce narrates you see imagery of “falling” all over the place.

 

[T8OO]

I mean I am discussing. I said that those lightsabers are a a rip off. Light blades. Whatever you want to call them

I do think he was trying to come up with his own lightsaber or light sword. It isn't a patch on the lightsaber but I think they did a good job by removing the laser/light/plasma altogether and having actual swords that superheat.

 

[Alatar]

A good portion of the people here don't like the movie and have been speaking negatively of it.

Lol ikr? As the movie is getting absolutely brutalized by everyone else in the thread (which is fair for them to do, I’ve no issue with anyone’s right to do that) we’re doing something inappropriate by standing up for something we appreciate, that we feel has value? We’re somehow in the wrong for that? That’s basically a form of gaslighting, tbh.

 

[T8OO]

lol what? No, some of it is more stuff like in the spirit of what this article identifies:

Zack Snyder’s DCEU Is a Nine-Hour Joyride Through Decades of Comic Book History

But there’s other stuff beyond just comic book references. A few years ago there was a contest that a fan organized to identify Easter eggs, and Zack confirmed over a hundred of them. There‘s an article somewhere that lists them all, but I‘ll have to hunt for it.

One I can think of atm though, is that while I’m pretty sure Zack Snyder isn’t a Truther re: the 9-11 attack, Superman grappling with Zod as buildings are falling because of their fight resembles the iconic image of 9-11’s the “Falling Man.” BvS is basically a Batman film. It takes up the theme that Frank Miller envisioned in TDKR of Batman being jaded, burnt out, and disillusioned. Snyder ties that in to the the more mythic themes of a fall from grace, a “fall” from Batman’s original ideal to try to avoid killing at all costs. That in turn ties in with the impact of deconstruction of comic books witnessed in 1986 with Watchmen and TDKR. Like once you have really allowed deconstruction to sink in and do its thing to the psyche, it’s hard to innocently enjoy the superhero genre as you did before that. Like you can’t go home again, etc. Anyway, in the opening dream sequence that Bruce narrates you see imagery of “falling” all over the place.

You probably already know this but there is a similar motif that happens throughout most of the movie for Batman falling or descending.
Like in their fight, Superman takes the fight upwards to the rooftop.
Batman takes the fight downwards, down through the skylight, smashes Superman down to the floor with the sink, and throws him down the stairwell. Descending to the bottom. Batman is trying to bring the God down to his level.
Once he realizes what he has become he starts his accent. Up in the batwing, he takes on the goons in the warehouse by going up through the floor.

 

[Alatar]

A great write-up! It will be interesting to see how Part 2 and the extended versions shape what we think of these.

I must say you are keeping this very positive with the negativity being thrown around in here.

Thank you!

It’s a boundary issue really. I see it as simply providing information for others to process and do with whatever they will on the other side of the boundary. What they do with it is their business, lol. I have no stake beyond hoping that there’s a possibility that it may resonate somewhat here and there out there.

 

[Alatar]

You probably already know this but there is a similar motif that happens throughout most of the movie for Batman falling or descending.
Like in their fight, Superman takes the fight upwards to the rooftop.
Batman takes the fight downwards, down through the skylight, smashes Superman down to the floor with the sink, and throws him down the stairwell. Descending to the bottom. Batman is trying to bring the God down to his level.
Once he realizes what he has become he starts his accent. Up in the batwing, he takes on the goons in the warehouse by going up through the floor.

Yeah, for sure. I think It’s also why Superman is treated mostly as a “big idea” versus an intimate character study. He’s mythic and archetypal in Snyder’s treatment. He’s as symbol. I think Batman grappling with Superman is akin to the ego grappling with what Jung called the God-image. It’s not literally God in the metaphysical sense, but the psyche’s propensity to generate an image of the organizing center of the unconscious, which is transpersonal and impersonal in nature.

In any case, the imagery in BvS is amazingly rich that way!

 

[The Buffinator]

I do think he was trying to come up with his own lightsaber or light sword. It isn't a patch on the lightsaber but I think they did a good job by removing the laser/light/plasma altogether and having actual swords that superheat.

I agree he tried to come up with his own light swords and when they were ablaze they looked quite original.

Oh wait, scratch that...

 

[Wor-Gar]

I'm glad Alatar and T800 are here to support counter-programming as it were.

I know how it can be; I am an avid fan of Fury Road where many of my usual supporters here don't like that movie.

To be fair Star Wars wasn't the first movie to feature laser guns and it doesn't get flack for doing so.

This made me remember how fresh it was in 1977 that Lucas did however make them shoot "laser bolts". That was a very cool way to get things moving fast and have actual shoot-outs. Up to that point, the majority if not all of laser guns shot beams with high pitched sounds for a substantial amount of time where everyone stood still until the beam was finished. Bringing the bang-bang back was a great "new" way to reinvent something. That was part of the attraction to Star Wars -- heavily borrowed, yes... but reinvented in a fresh, new way. That movie single-handedly changed all of our expectations about space/adventure movies and I think people forget, or are too young to notice.