Avengers: Endgame

Yeah, that's new to me aswell. Good alternate scene....although I don't know what would happen immediately after it what with Thanos being right there. Was the screen just going to flash to Clint waking up elsewhere with the Soul Stone?

Anyway, that just reminded me how good we had it with these films. They must be due for a rewatch, been a couple of years probably.

Yeah I assume that Clint would have been whisked safely away to the same pool with the Soul Stone since he's the one who made the sacrifice, so to speak.

The final version will always be solid but I actually think I like the alternate version more for the added tension and letting BW go out in more of a blaze of glory.

And yeah, the Infinity Saga will always make the 2010's a special time for event cinema.

Thanks for posting Khev I've not seen that before. I think I prefer it as well. Does it lessen her sacrifice or the emotion behind it... I think not. Did we really need to actually see Clint and Natasha fight it out to be the sacrifice when we know from that dialogue that they both intend to do it for the other?

What we got was a bigger sacrifice. Nat would have died anyway in that scenario.

Dave_W said:

What we got was a bigger sacrifice. Nat would have died anyway in that scenario.

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The theatrical version wasn't a bigger sacrifice.

Theatrical: Casually jump off and teleport your friend to safety

Alternate: Get blasted half to hell while jumping off and teleport your friend to safety

Clint could have done the same in either scenario, but both times it was Nat and in the alternate version her end was even more prolonged and brutal, while at the same time not feeling gratuitous.

I wonder if the longer version was deemed to be too traumatizing for an already gut-wrenching sequence.

I also remember people chuckling at how silly her two Glocks appeared in the final battle against Thanos but in the alternate scene she actually uses them to save Clint's life which was cool.

This is on Disney+ along with a bunch of other deleted scenes and it’s got the Russo brothers talking about it as well. From memory they thought that the fighting lessened the emotional impact of the scene and reshot it.

Khev said:

The theatrical version wasn't a bigger sacrifice.

Theatrical: Casually jump off and teleport your friend to safety

Alternate: Get blasted half to hell while jumping off and teleport your friend to safety

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I have to disagree. Nat was going to die anyway. Sure it was more brutal, but what was the alternative? She dies, Clint jumps off, he dies and no one takes the stone back. There isn't a real choice in that scenario and if there's no real choice, then there's no real sacrifice.

It's Hobson's choice and are Hobson's choices sacrifices?

Edit: Hmm, you know what, having watched it again, I can see what you mean.

This was one of the alternate takes mentioned before when leaks were coming out.

Maybe a better idea would have been Nat doesn't get smoked but they get pinned down with low ammo, Clint got overpowered by an outrider and is about to get killed at the edge but Nat bum rushes the outrider with her and they fall off the cliff. Maybe.

I think the version we got was the right choice. Warriors don't get to choose how they go out, so no blaze of glory. Besides, the deleted scene (in spite of this being a ridiculous comic book movie etc.) is too unbelievable for my taste:

They're both out in the open, sitting ducks outnumbered and outgunned. Natasha (unlike in the comics) is *not* enhanced. The very first shot should have immediately disabled and/or killed her.

And as someone else pointed out, in the deleted scene she would have died anyway so her 'sacrifice' is more ambiguous.

Still not sure how I feel about Stark dying in the end (and we don't get to see Natasha's hero's funeral either) but we got what we got. I guess it finally gave us real stakes, like it or not.

Endgame was a satisfying albeit flawed wrap to the MCU ... I guess I now agree that Infinity War was the better film.

It's been years now and I can say with confidence they never got the magic back. NWH and MoM were ... appendices at best? They're not that memorable for me although I guess they weren't awful.

Another one: https://x.com/historyofthemcu/status/1845167767483207977

Tony at the Afterlife "Waystation." A very nice scene but it would have really ground the pacing to a halt. I'm guessing they added the hologram bit at the funeral to make up for it and put his send-off where it makes better sense from a pacing standpoint.

Khev said:

Another one: https://x.com/historyofthemcu/status/1845167767483207977

Tony at the Afterlife "Waystation." A very nice scene but it would have really ground the pacing to a halt. I'm guessing they added the hologram bit at the funeral to make up for it and put his send-off where it makes better sense from a pacing standpoint.

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It doesn't make sense either as why would she be there in the afterlife unless she died at that age and they met up there... probably committed suicide for a dozen + 1 reasons. Lol!

Bleah said:

It doesn't make sense either as why would she be there in the afterlife unless she died at that age and they met up there... probably committed suicide for a dozen + 1 reasons. Lol!

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Mind stone + Time stone. Makes sense to me.

ZE_501 said:

I think the version we got was the right choice. Warriors don't get to choose how they go out, so no blaze of glory. Besides, the deleted scene (in spite of this being a ridiculous comic book movie etc.) is too unbelievable for my taste:

They're both out in the open, sitting ducks outnumbered and outgunned. Natasha (unlike in the comics) is *not* enhanced. The very first shot should have immediately disabled and/or killed her.

And as someone else pointed out, in the deleted scene she would have died anyway so her 'sacrifice' is more ambiguous.

Still not sure how I feel about Stark dying in the end (and we don't get to see Natasha's hero's funeral either) but we got what we got. I guess it finally gave us real stakes, like it or not.

Endgame was a satisfying albeit flawed wrap to the MCU ... I guess I now agree that Infinity War was the better film.

It's been years now and I can say with confidence they never got the magic back. NWH and MoM were ... appendices at best? They're not that memorable for me although I guess they weren't awful.

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IDK, in this alternate scene Natasha could see Thanos and the Black Order approaching in the background, so her sacrifice was far from ambiguous as choosing to go over the cliff was the only way to save both Clint and the mission. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

As for the first shot disabling/killing her, I always assumed her outfit had some level of lightweight armor woven into it. And if those shots didn't hit a vital organ (or had a paralytic effect) she wouldn't be completely immobilized. Besides, it's not like she waltzed to the edge - she was dragging herself along the ground lol...

chrisstbh said:

Mind stone + Time stone. Makes sense to me.

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Plus Gamora didn't appear to Thanos at the age that she died.

It would have been funny if all Morgan said was "Well, that didn't work because here I am. Loser."

*credits*

lol

Bleah said:

It doesn't make sense either as why would she be there in the afterlife unless she died at that age and they met up there... probably committed suicide for a dozen + 1 reasons. Lol!

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My own theory on an afterlife, if there is one, is that anyone who is destined to be there, already is there. Like the Nexus in Star Trek Generations, time - as it is in our own reality - has no meaning anymore. So Tony's daughter can still be alive on Earth and not die till she's an old lady and yet still greet him in the afterlife as the young woman he would have wanted to see.

In the alternate take, the moment Nat used the distraction to get out from behind cover first and run towards the enemies and the edge she had made her decision to be the sacrifice. She knew to get to the edge would put her in the firing line and she had made peace with it. Clint hadn't got there mentally yet which is why she was first.

In the take in the movie we have the almost farcical game of each other trying to stop the other ftom committing suicide first. It lessened the emotional impact because it played a bit like your typical MCU visual gag.

The Buffinator said:

IDK, in this alternate scene Natasha could see Thanos and the Black Order approaching in the background, so her sacrifice was far from ambiguous as choosing to go over the cliff was the only way to save both Clint and the mission. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

As for the first shot disabling/killing her, I always assumed her outfit had some level of lightweight armor woven into it. And if those shots didn't hit a vital organ (or had a paralytic effect) she wouldn't be completely immobilized. Besides, it's not like she waltzed to the edge - she was dragging herself along the ground lol...

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No sir. Don't buy it.

Bravomite said:

In the alternate take, the moment Nat used the distraction to get out from behind cover first and run towards the enemies and the edge she had made her decision to be the sacrifice. She knew to get to the edge would put her in the firing line and she had made peace with it. Clint hadn't got there mentally yet which is why she was first.

In the take in the movie we have the almost farcical game of each other trying to stop the other ftom committing suicide first. It lessened the emotional impact because it played a bit like your typical MCU visual gag.

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Okay, okay ... fair enough. This phrasing may sway me.

ZE_501 said:

... I guess I now agree that Infinity War was the better film.

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One day, all will realize this truth.

I think the one they went with was more emotionally satisfying, but agree that she sacrificed herself here by running out ahead of time. The fact that she would have died irrespective of jumping doesn't change that she sacrificed herself. But then, I'm not 100% sure how this is all supposed to work anyway. Thanos sacrificed the thing he loved the most. Widow sacrificed herself, and wasn't the thing Barton (presumably) loved the most. Even in death, surely he still loved his kids more? Whatever. It worked in the original just fine for me.

Pretty crazy that they went all in with this alternate scene, doing all the effects and editing. Pretty big investment for minimal payoff.

a-dev said:

Anyway, that just reminded me how good we had it with these films. They must be due for a rewatch, been a couple of years probably.

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I just got back from Disney and my daughter is now all into the Guardians after riding that roller coaster at Epcot. So, I rewatched the first film at our hotel during the hurricane closure, and then Black Panther on the plane, neither of which I had seen in several years. Those stand in such stark contrast to the stuff Marvel Studios has put out in recent years. Deadpool and Wolverine, as much as I love Wolvie there, included. These movies aren't good, original ideas anymore. I hope the Russos or James Gunn with DC can bring some of that magic back, but I'm not overly optimistic.

ZE_501 said:

Endgame was a satisfying albeit flawed wrap to the MCU ... I guess I now agree that Infinity War was the better film.

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For sure. The end of EndGame always tainted that movie overall for me. Even if we are just talking about the horrible scene where everyone flies out of a portal. So horribly cheesy that I couldn't take the movie seriously anymore.