1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Spider-Man: Homecoming - Spider-Man Collectible Figure

[TheBatman]

Im not why it wasn't obvious. Just because its a toy advertised with dynamic posability doesnt meant you dont be careful doing so.... Common sense.

Sports cars are advertised as "sports". Yet you blame the person if they crash it due to their negligence/inexperience. Same concept applies. Its not rocket science.

Im not sure why people dont take responsibility for carelessness or ignorance and take it out on Hot Toys.

 

[bedot]

Im not why it wasn't obvious. Just because its a toy advertised with dynamic posability doesnt meant you dont be careful doing so.... Common sense.

Sports cars are advertised as "sports". Yet you blame the person if they crash it due to their negligence/inexperience. Same concept applies. Its not rocket science.

Im not sure why people dont take responsibility for carelessness or ignorance and take it out on Hot Toys.

Nobody is taking it out on Hot Toys. Most don't knowingly want to damage their figures they own.

Hot Toys does amazing work. That is separate from the fact that the advertising for this figure is at least partially false.

Don't advertise 90 plus photos of amazing dynamic poses to sell the figure, then not take responsibility for what happens to your product when the consumer tries the same thing. Not for a year or 2, rather a week or 2, and the suit becomes ruined.

Again, HT does amazing work. This figure is amazing to look at. It has a major flaw that HT knowingly concealed to sell more.

Anyway, I'm off my soap box.

Hopefully that damage from the FB pic is just an extreme situation.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

 

[Jaymas]

I agree. It's common sense. Do we really need HTs to tell us they haven't invented some magical material that has unlimited elastic properties with the ability to return to its pre-stretched state no matter how long it's deformed?

Spider-Man is incredibly dynamic. Human beings are dynamic. Our clothes move with us dynamically. But now we expect a STATIC figure to hold a DYNAMIC pose for days without repurcussions?

Just to put it into perspectice, muscles are the most elastic structures we have on our body with the ability to return to its "normal" resting length. Yet, it can be lengthened by simply doing a few repetitions of STATIC stretches for 30 seconds a day.

We expect 1/6 scaled material based on a mostly CG suit to do better?

Sigh... You know it amazes me how a critique can be exaggerated to a point of absurdity. No one thinks Hot Toys invented some "magic materiel". But the reality is much closer to the opposite of what you say, because I don't own any clothes where the knees on my pants get stretched out and don't return to their previous shape when I stand because I sat in a chair with my knees bent at work for 5 or 6 hours. No one is talking about "unlimited elastic properties with the ability to return to its pre-stretched state no matter how long it's deformed". No one wears any clothes nearly as fragile as this particular variety of material we have seen on some of the skin tight 1/6 costumes in the most recent years. So Hot Toys is using a "new material" not typically used for clothes that isn't as resilient as what is typical in real life or even at 1/6 scale. It's not like material anyone commonly uses, yet you seem to argue that what we expect instinctively from it based on our experience is uncommon- it's not.

With that said, I am not "complaining" I am simply observing, and I can understand that they chose the material because it emulates the look of what we see on screen really well. I understand that Hot Toys is always balancing different trade offs. I'm disappointed by the reality of how it can't be left in a dynamic pose without damaging it, but I am also still buying it because I think it looks great. I am willing to accept the trade they chose giving us a beutiful figure with some limitations not seen in most figures; but that doesn't mean I can't be disappointed, or think Hot Toys isn't completely being upfront about its limitations in its marketing (even though it tells you AFTER you buy it).

Im not why it wasn't obvious. Just because its a toy advertised with dynamic posability doesnt meant you dont be careful doing so.... Common sense.

Sports cars are advertised as "sports". Yet you blame the person if they crash it due to their negligence/inexperience. Same concept applies. Its not rocket science.

Im not sure why people dont take responsibility for carelessness or ignorance and take it out on Hot Toys.

Oh my goodness, again with exaggerated straw man arguments that stray from the actual substance of the critique in order to try to make someone else sound "dumb" as if the the issue is somehow not about not taking responsibility. But lets look at what you call "common sense". The figure comes with a stand, right? Which means it is designed to be posed on a stand and placed on a shelf. How is it "common sense" not to think from the promotional pictures they use to sell the figure, and the picture on the box, that you can't replicate what you see in the pictures and put it on your shelf the same way. How is it not common sense based on the marketing not to think we can poses a figure in dynamic ways and leave it on a stand when it comes with a "dynamic" stand? There is nothing inherently careless about thinking you would be able to do this and the marketing encourages it- even though they warn you after you bought it in the instructions that it could damage the costume. So, it's not "common sense" it's information they have to tell the customer about, and they don't tell them until after until after they buy it.

Now again, I can critique Hot Toys for this without hating on Hot Toys and I can recognize that their marketing is a bit deceptive while also appreciating that because of forums like this people are able to have more insight into what the figure actually is beyond just what Hot Toys says it is, before you buy it. So yeah, I know it's limitations. It would indeed be irresponsible to leave it in a dynamic pose after they tell you not too, but lets not pretend Hot Toys isn't being completely upfront all this either in their advertising. (again the instructions are not part of the advertising) But, I am aware of the limitations, and I am still buying it. I am still very excited to get it. I think it looks fantastic. But none of this is "either/or" or about being "for or against" Hot Toys. It just blows my mind how it is so difficult for some people to talk about positive and negative aspects of a figure , or the company that makes it, without some people thinking its all about hating it or all about defending it. There are varying levels of responsibility for BOTH the company and the customer; it's not either or.

 

[SoGS]

I think we can all agree that it sucks that we can't leave this guy in any dynamic poses that stress the material.

There's just so much to consider. Is HT holding out on better materials that can still replicate what we saw on screen, while withstanding creasing or damage when left in positions that stress the material? Or does that material not exist and HTs is choosing on-screen accuracy over function?

And on the topic of HTs photos showing him in dynamic poses: I don't see anything wrong with it, personally. Yes, the figure can GET into those poses while still looking amazing. It doesn't mean we should throw common sense and caution to the wind and LEAVE it in that position, while expecting the material to look just as good 10 days later.

 

[Answer348]

There goes my plan to pose him in a way that focuses exclusively on the back of his knees.

 

[TheBatman]

Nobody said you cant dynamically pose it. Its common sense to take care when doing so.

We all know what the joint looks like and how the bending mechanism works. Just grab a kitbash body and study it.

Take care and just make sure the material doesnt get snagged in there.

Thats it.

A lot of collectors just dont have that practical outlook in collecting anymore.

 

[SoGS]

Sigh... You know it amazes me how a critique can be exaggerated to a point of absurdity. No one thinks Hot Toys invented some "magic materiel". But the reality is much closer to the opposite of what you say, because I don't own any clothes where the knees on my pants get stretched out and don't return to their previous shape when I stand because I sat in a chair with my knees bent at work for 5 or 6 hours. No one is talking about "unlimited elastic properties with the ability to return to its pre-stretched state no matter how long it's deformed". No one wears any clothes nearly as fragile as this particular variety of material we have seen on some of the skin tight 1/6 costumes in the most recent years. So Hot Toys is using a "new material" not typically used for clothes that isn't as resilient as what is typical in real life or even at 1/6 scale. It's not like material anyone commonly uses, yet you seem to argue that what we expect instinctively from it based on our experience is uncommon- it's not.

With that said, I am not "complaining" I am simply observing, and I can understand that they chose the material because it emulates the look of what we see on screen really well. I understand that Hot Toys is always balancing different trade offs. I'm disappointed by the reality of how it can't be left in a dynamic pose without damaging it, but I am also still buying it because I think it looks great. I am willing to accept the trade they chose giving us a beutiful figure with some limitations not seen in most figures; but that doesn't mean I can't be disappointed, or think Hot Toys isn't completely being upfront about its limitations in its marketing (even though it tells you AFTER you buy)

You've been "observing" since this figure has released.

And yes, your clothes don't get messed up after sitting at work for 5 hours. But I'm assuming you're not wearing skin tight clothing either. And I'm sure you moved your leg to extend your knee at some point. And my argument is with leaving the figure in an extreme pose for 10 days.

Anyway, I'm not so much arguing what you're saying, other than "yes, it should be common sense that if you leave a figure with skin tight soft goods in an extreme position there will be consequences."

Other than that, I agree with you in that it sucks that we aren't able to consistently display this figure as we would all like to. Especially being Spider-Man figure. But I'm okay with that because I prefer the trade-trade-off HTs has made. If I wanted more articulation then I'd go with one of the smaller scale companies.

 

[Jaymas]

And yes, your clothes don't get messed up after sitting at work for 5 hours. But I'm assuming you're not wearing skin tight clothing either. And I'm sure you moved your leg to extend your knee at some point.

Please tell me an article of skin tight clothing that I could wear that would be damaged if I sat in them with my knees bent for 5 hours. Tell me an article of real skin tight clothing that would be damaged in the store by being on a mannequin where the knees were bent for a month. This argument makes no sense and doesn't help your point.

. But I'm okay with that because I prefer the trade-trade-off HTs has made. If I wanted more articulation then I'd go with one of the smaller scale companies.

As I said too. I both understand and embrace the trade in they made too; that's why I am buying the figure. But this whole thing criticizing people about for not having "common sense" about their initial expectations doesn't ring as reasonable or true (i.e. really an issue of "common sense). The issue of the material they used (and we can argue for good reason regarding other factors as a trade off) doesn't follow what we commonly experience with clothes at any scale. "Common sense" would tell us that we should be able to bend an pose a figure the way it is displayed in the marketing without damaging it. It's only specific experience or being told directly (per instructions) that we would know that in this case "common sense" actually doesn't apply.

 

[BlackHordak]

If this does not work, then the price must not be high. Hot toys is bad and their leather became obselete after 3 years.

 

[TheBatman]

Please tell me an article of skin tight clothing that I could wear that would be damaged if I sat in them with my knees bent for 5 hours. Tell me an article of real skin tight clothing that would be damaged in the store by being on a mannequin where the knees were bent for a month. This argument makes no sense and doesn't help your point.

My partner's stockings get torn all the time....

Not to mention, why are we comparing 1/6 scale material to real life. The strength of the material is considerably different since the surface area is much smaller for 1/6.. Not to mention how much thinner the material is compared to real life..

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Please tell me an article of skin tight clothing that I could wear that would be damaged if I sat in them with my knees bent for 5 hours. Tell me an article of real skin tight clothing that would be damaged in the store by being on a mannequin where the knees were bent for a month. This argument makes no sense and doesn't help your point.

Makes perfect sense.

Any skin tight clothing would pinch and ruin if your joints were exposed like the figure is (and has to be).

 

[SoGS]

Please tell me an article of skin tight clothing that I could wear that would be damaged if I sat in them with my knees bent for 5 hours. Tell me an article of real skin tight clothing that would be damaged in the store by being on a mannequin where the knees were bent for a month. This argument makes no sense and doesn't help your point.

As I said too. I both understand and embrace the trade in they made too; that's why I am buying the figure. But this whole thing criticizing people about for not having "common sense" about their initial expectations doesn't ring as reasonable or true (i.e. really an issue of "common sense). The issue of the material they used (and we can argue for good reason regarding other factors as a trade off) doesn't follow what we commonly experience with clothes at any scale. "Common sense" would tell us that we should be able to bend an pose a figure the way it is displayed in the marketing without damaging it. It's only specific experience or being told directly (per instructions) that we would know that in this case "common sense" actually doesn't apply.

If you're stating that the damage occurred as a result of the owner ATTEMPTING his 10 day pose (while being careful), then yes! I absolutely side with you. HT should not be showing pictures of the figure in poses it is not capable of even achieving.

BUT, if the figure got into the position just fine, but sustained damage due to the owner being too rough, or if the damage occurred BECAUSE it was left in that dynamic pose for 10 days, then I do not believe that it is false advertising by HTs.

Those promotional shots show me a single moment it time that the figure was able to be in that pose. It doesn't automatically signal to me that "hey, this figure can be left like this for a week or 2." That's where the common sense comes into play.

Common sense tells me any skin tight article of clothing that is being stressed will be deformed over time, especially in a smaller scale. I don't need HTs to tell me that IM isn't really flying or that SM isn't really sticking to a wall. So just because a figure with skin tight clothing like SM, BP, Vision, Superman, Batman, etc. are shown in dynamic poses doesn't mean I believe they can sustain those poses without damaging the costume.

If you don't agree, then let's at least agree to disagree for the sake of other members reading this lol.

Other than that, I share your disappointment and excitement for this figure. I, too, would like to come up with my own dynamic poses, display it like that for a few days, then do it all over again without worrying about damaging the figure. Do I really want Spider-man just standing there? Not particularly. But I'm willing to concede that that's just how it is at this point because ultimately, I would not trade a more articulated 1/6 MCU Spidey for the figure we're getting if it means getting a less movie accurate representation.

 

[Jme_c]

Now what was once a positive thread has become arguing and bitching about someone that clearly didn't know how to pose their figure properly!
I have to ask how they couldn't have noticed when posing it that the fabric was snagged.

 

[Jaymas]

My partner's stockings get torn all the time....

Not to mention, why are we comparing 1/6 scale material to real life. The strength of the material is considerably different since the surface area is much smaller for 1/6.. Not to mention how much thinner the material is compared to real life..

Okay, thanks for the the reasonable example, however it still isn't "common sense" unless the material is comparable. I have the Adam West Batman and Robin, and the Reeve Superman, and they are fragile, but not in the same way as the material we are talking about now. The "tights" especially as thin as they are at 1/6 scale are like you're partner's stockings, they can get snagged and torn, but they (neither her stockings or Batman and Robin's tights) are not stretched out of shape nearly as easy as the variety of material used on the Man of Steel or Black Panther. I am careful in how I handle my Batman and Superman figure, but I am not worried about leaving their knee bent in a pose.

Makes perfect sense.

Any skin tight clothing would pinch and ruin if your joints were exposed like the figure is (and has to be).

What you are saying is reasonable for what we saw in the pic a page or so ago of the back of Spiderman's knee where it clearly got pinched in the joints. However being pinched is not the only issue. The joints being "exposed" didn't cause the material around the knee to be stretched on my Vision figure, if the joints where covered in rubber underneath the variety of material used for the costume still would have stretched with the knee bent. My point isn't that it doesn't make sense that it can be damaged once you have experience with all the variables, but rather while it makes sense after you learn about it, it isn't "common sense" and it's unfair to blast people as if they are being stupid for being surprised about the limitations of the figure's costume.

BUT, if the figure got into the position just fine, but sustained damage due to the owner being too rough, or if the damage occurred BECAUSE it was left in that dynamic pose for 10 days, then I do not believe that it is false advertising by HTs.

I never said "false advertising", I said it was misleading. I am not accusing them of something criminal, just a bit sneaky.

Those promotional shots show me a single moment it time that the figure was able to be in that pose. It doesn't automatically signal to me that "hey, this figure can be left like this for a week or 2." That's where the common sense comes into play.

I have no idea how "common sense" would inform you that when you see the promo pics of the Spider-man figure in dynamic poses it would be an instant natural reaction and assumption to say to yourself, "oh wow, but you can't leave him that way but for a few minutes at most or it might be damaged." You're whole premise that it is "common sense" is completely absurd. There are no "common" experiences with clothes in real life or even 1/6 figures to lead you to understand that a pose can't be left that way. This isn't true with real clothes or even other figures, so it is not "common" sense or general experience. The ONLY way it becomes reasonable to think that is if you have specific experience with the variety of material that has been used lately for costumes like this; but this moves it from "common sense" to experience. This is why many people on the board saw red flags when they saw the first promo-pics- because of experience - not common sense. It was because they ran into this particular issue before. But when the first figure came out using the variety of material used, (what was that? Man of Steel?) they had to learn of its limitations, it wasn't instinctive understanding just from looking at it.

If you don't agree, then let's at least agree to disagree for the sake of other members reading this lol.

Sure, I have clearly done my best to make my case and talking anymore about it going forward doesn't seem like it will help. To be clear though, especially "for the sake of other members", my only issue is the blasting of others, particularly newer board members, in ways that imply that they are stupid for thinking they could leave a figure in a pose with their knee bent for 10 days because it violates some sort of "common sense". If someone never had a figure that used this particular variety of material they would have no way to know. It's not common sense, and they aren't stupid for not being able to instinctively anticipate it's limitations.

I love this board because as collectors we can educate each other about our common hobby. I think it is amazingly helpful that because of the board I am able to know that the instructions warn that being left dynamic poses can damage the figure BEFORE I buy it. I also think it's helpful when experienced board members point out how Hot Toys has to make some trade offs when deciding what kind of material they use to emulate what we see on screen on a 1/6 scale figure. Hot Toys does an amazing job and I have great appreciation for their craft; which is why I buy so many Hot Toys figures; and even have this one on pre-order. I can't wait to get it and I think it will look awesome on my shelf even though I can't leave him in many poses I might like. But I don't think we should imply that other members who may not anticipate the limitations of the material don't have "common sense" as if they are dumb, and I also think it is okay for members to lament their disappointment about not being able to leave a figure in a more dynamic pose. I can understand, it can get old, especially for those of us that have already accepted the reality of it's limitations and are still excited to get the figure. But I don't feel the need to defend Hot Toys from reasonable laments and disappointment some members might have by implying they are stupid and don't have "common sense".

 

[TheBatman]

But I don't feel the need to defend Hot Toys from reasonable laments and disappointment some members might have by implying they are stupid and don't have "common sense".

Not stupid. Just inexperienced.

 

[SoGS]

@Jaymas:

Fair enough. Really trying to see it from your POV and the last thing I'd want to do is make any newer members feel stupid. Perhaps "common sense" isn't the proper term to be using. I'm trying to think back to the first figure I saw with material that didn't appear "spandex-y," and I believe it was Vision. As soon as I saw the promo pics, instinctively (or perhaps because it seemed obvious to me) I knew that the suit wasn't going to behave as your aforementioned examples of Reeves Superman or West Batman. It looked to have almost a rubberized component to the material. And that look has continued on to figures like the BvS figures, BP, and now SM.

In any case, I believe I can concede that maybe it's a little bit of both of our arguments. Seeing the material on Vision in pictures, for me, was already a red flag regarding doing anything to stretch the material, perhaps more of a "gut feeling." Watching reviews, reading other members experience, seeing the issue continue with future figures, only confirmed what I suspected.

I've always been the more cautious type especially considering that these are $220+ toys, so perhaps that plays a role in my stance. In this case, seeing the material is enough of a red flag for me to not want to push the figure myself and to wait and see other owners experiences. But I can also see the other side of that where an individual may see the promo pics and just want to go for it and have fun.

 

[Jaymas]

Not stupid. Just inexperienced.

Right

@Jaymas:

Fair enough. Really trying to see it from your POV and the last thing I'd want to do is make any newer members feel stupid. Perhaps "common sense" isn't the proper term to be using. I'm trying to think back to the first figure I saw with material that didn't appear "spandex-y," and I believe it was Vision. As soon as I saw the promo pics, instinctively (or perhaps because it seemed obvious to me) I knew that the suit wasn't going to behave as your aforementioned examples of Reeves Superman or West Batman. It looked to have almost a rubberized component to the material. And that look has continued on to figures like the BvS figures, BP, and now SM.

In any case, I believe I can concede that maybe it's a little bit of both of our arguments. Seeing the material on Vision in pictures, for me, was already a red flag regarding doing anything to stretch the material, perhaps more of a "gut feeling." Watching reviews, reading other members experience, seeing the issue continue with future figures, only confirmed what I suspected.

I've always been the more cautious type especially considering that these are $220+ toys, so perhaps that plays a role in my stance. In this case, seeing the material is enough of a red flag for me to not want to push the figure myself and to wait and see other owners experiences. But I can also see the other side of that where an individual may see the promo pics and just want to go for it and have fun.

Thanks, I can appreciate your "gut feeling", but think even that is based on some experience with alternative materials like other figures with "rubber" suits. Thanks for hearing me out and listening to where I was coming from and thanks for the thoughtful response

 

[Cicada17]

“Me like toys...”

 

[Cap'n Cook]

...

 

[wonderboy952]

Less talky! More pictures