1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

[eczamurai]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

Driver is a good enough actor, I just thought his character was all over the place. He was the least of my problems with the film, the greateSt being a lame death star ripoff that kills a sun (which is pretty cool) and I assumed that then all surrounding planets would die (because they have no sun), but nooooo they have to shoot them. I would have preffered it have been if the order just turned all these solar systems to ice by removing their sun. Or anything other than a death star that's actually less efficient because it needs a sun to power it.

 

[eczamurai]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

Just think about the amazing shots you could have of these incredible cities turned to ice.

 

[ShadowX81]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

Just from a film-making perspective, from the way he's introduced, black costume and red saber, and the creepy-synth voice, it's pretty clear that they intended for us to be scared of Kylo.

For me, Kylo shares the same problem with Anakin - he mostly comes across as a whiny lightweight who hasn't really earned all the gravitas and importance we're supposed to be giving him.

I mean he's out-forced by a girl, nearly beaten by pretty much everyone he faces, and has a kinda funny hissy-fit. By the end I just wanted him to go back to the trailer park and back to bullying his little brothers with a Hasbro saber.

For me there's no "steps to earning our fear" - if a character's not scary or powerfully compelling in some way from the outset, then what's the point? Wait around for him to get interesting? You really have to wonder if it was just a regular sci-fi/fantasy film (not part of SW) would anyone even remember him?

Exactly! I agree 100%

I think part of it is that today's attitudes towards villians is to aim to create a compelling one by making them sympathetic. But in trying to do so, alot of them pull their punches when it comes time to show them doing something evil or intimidating. It ends up missing the mark and coming off as lame and neutered.

The audience really needs someone to root against and hate. Someone that they can really be frightened by. That just isn't there in Kylo, but we are expected to place him in the same league as legends like Maul and Vader right out of the gate.

Seeing a hero triumph against an unquestionable, frightening evil is always more fun for the audience than seeing them defeat someone who is morally grey and just happens to disagree with them at the matter at hand.


I just hate this excuse that alot of these audience members use towards half baked interpretations of characters. "X just isn't there yet. We are only seeing them at the beginning of their arc." People said the same thing about Superman when Man of Steel came out. But why do we need multiple movies to get characters to where we want to see them at? What's wrong with just starting them at that point?
I see this as more just an excuse to cast a younger actor/actress and do whatever they want with them rather than stick to established character traits.

 

[JacktheRipper]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

Not a lot worked for me in TFA. Ren, at least for me, will never be a good villain. Snookie is an even worse master or whatever he's suppose to be. The whole Han, Leia and our son going bad is just terrible. Never felt any emotion for that family dynamic. Don't care what went wrong. Why he chose that path. Driver hasn't grown on me. He might be a good actor, but he didn't seem right for this part. Just like Shaw as Vader. After all this time he's not what should have been. Who would have worked? I don't know but it wasn't him. Driver's the same.

 

[eczamurai]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

I always liked vaders reveal tbh. Snoke has the worst villain name ever by far. Who the hell calls himself Snoke? God I hope it turns out to be a first name with his last name actually being "nazi jedislayer" or something.

 

[SilverStar17]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

I get both sides of the spectrum regarding Kylo as far as him being a "whiny emo kid" and also him having an arc. My feeling is he will be even more ruthless in TLJ, after having gone through (sort of) with killing his father and his father now being out of the way.

For me personally, he just wasn't very formidable and intimidating to me once he took his mask off, which is why I have utterly no interest in a Driver sculpt as my Kylo Ren representation. Loved him in that beginning sequence in the village on Jakku, so I like to think my figure is based on him in that sequence. Also liked him in the forest scene on Takodana when he came after Rey. Once he took off his mask in the film though, it's like "this guy?"

The same was with Vader in RotJ. Even after he redeemed himself and threw Palpatine down the reactor shaft, he still looked intimidating; to the point where you were almost scared to even help him, the way Luke did. However, after taking his mask off, you find out it's just a scarred, pale guy under the intimidating armor.

I guess an analogy would be like the scene in The Wizard of Oz with "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!" You think the Wizard of Oz is this large, intimidating, authoritative talking head above a bunch of flames, only to find out it's being controlled by this meek, maladroit guy behind a curtain with a microphone.

 

[james the cat]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

The force awakens was dreadful utter garbage and the 3 prequel films were absolutely ****e and that's putting it politely
Its all to do with hype now
To be honest they've really tarnished the originals as well with that cgi what Lucas did in 1997
Rogue one was probably the best film since return of the Jedi
Anybody else think George Lucas was kidnapped by aliens in 1996 ?

 

[mattinglymint23]

1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

Lucas is public enemy number 1 in my opinion

Prequels were awful sans Ewan and Natalie and Maul and Liam and Jackson - the only reason I watch them.

Can only really watch the last half of Sith if I have to. the whole trilogy is like watching a cartoon with the visuals.

TFA was fun for me - enjoying the nostalgia of this trilogy

Rogue One was excellent. I enjoyed watching a real movie with humor and intense themes.

Episode 6 loses something for me and the more I read about what the script was supposed to be the more I just loathe Lucas. He really lost sight of what he was creating starting with Jedi then the prequel mess.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jme_c]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

The force awakens was dreadful utter garbage and the 3 prequel films were absolutely ****e and that's putting it politely
Its all to do with hype now
To be honest they've really tarnished the originals as well with that cgi what Lucas did in 1997
Rogue one was probably the best film since return of the Jedi
Anybody else think George Lucas was kidnapped by aliens in 1996 ?

*YAWN*

Going off topic now tbh, can we get back to the figures instead of everything Star Wars that is t the untouched originals!

 

[TaliBane]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

I do think Kylo is very much a perfect villain of our current cultural moment as someone mentioned above:

He's arrested development, has few real skills and little interest in taking the time to acquire any, hasn't really lived a life other than fan worship activity, is a sea of confused rage because of divorced parents (philandering drunk Dad and cold career-Mom always off saving the world,) doesn't know what he wants other than undeserved fame, beaten by empowered women and minorities at every turn, but feels like he should rule the world simply because of what he inherited.

And throw in those "celebrity" parents of his and the family tree and you've got Kylo as a classic off-the-rails child of Hollywood. I mean they should have given him a "stardust" habit and the SW equivalent of an iPhone so he could moon over the glow of its screen and rage over his lack of followers throughout the galaxy... the sum of his life's journey that he'll never live up to the fame of his Mom, Dad and grand-dad.

I love the "full circle" thematic irony of it though - Kylo's symbolically a whiny, over-entitled Star Wars fan (a literal Vader cosplayer and fanboy)... and then they made him the villain of a Star Wars film.



I loved Rogue One like most did but other than the overall gritty "tone," pretty much everything I loved about it was due to it being a "film-within-a-film" literally set inside ANH. So I'm conflicted about it - in a weird way it felt a bit like a cheat, kind of incestuous, even though I'm so glad we have it (to heal all the open wounds of the PT and possibly even the ST.) RO was like your favorite roast dinner just served on different crockery with a couple of yummy new sides added. Of course you're gonna love it.

 

[matticus]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

I do think Kylo is very much a perfect villain of our current cultural moment as someone mentioned above:

He's arrested development, has few real skills and little interest in taking the time to acquire any, hasn't really lived a life other than fan worship activity, is a sea of confused rage because of divorced parents (philandering drunk Dad and cold career-Mom always off saving the world,) doesn't know what he wants other than undeserved fame, beaten by empowered women and minorities at every turn, but feels like he should rule the world simply because of what he inherited.

And throw in those "celebrity" parents of his and the family tree and you've got Kylo as a classic off-the-rails child of Hollywood. I mean they should have given him a "stardust" habit and the SW equivalent of an iPhone so he could moon over the glow of its screen and rage over his lack of followers throughout the galaxy... the sum of his life's journey that he'll never live up to the fame of his Mom, Dad and grand-dad.

I love the "full circle" thematic irony of it though - Kylo's symbolically a whiny, over-entitled Star Wars fan (a literal Vader cosplayer and fanboy)... and then they made him the villain of a Star Wars film.



I loved Rogue One like most did but other than the overall gritty "tone," pretty much everything I loved about it was due to it being a "film-within-a-film" literally set inside ANH. So I'm conflicted about it - in a weird way it felt a bit like a cheat, kind of incestuous, even though I'm so glad we have it (to heal all the open wounds of the PT and possibly even the ST.) RO was like your favorite roast dinner just served on different crockery with a couple of yummy new sides added. Of course you're gonna love it.

 

[earthdog]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

Kylo's character so far is drawn as a mirror to Luke in ANH. Complaining that Kyle wasn't scary and threw hissy fits is the equivalent of Luke being whiny. The Luke from ANH is unrecognizable in ROtJ because his character arc started this way. I think we will be able to same about Kylo eventually too.

 

[TaliBane]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

Kylo's character so far is drawn as a mirror to Luke in ANH. Complaining that Kyle wasn't scary and threw hissy fits is the equivalent of Luke being whiny. The Luke from ANH is unrecognizable in ROtJ because his character arc started this way. I think we will be able to same about Kylo eventually too.

Star Wars is a myth story. A hero/protagonist is the hero's journey. A villain/antagonist is the villain. They are distinct and different things. Joseph Campbell called it the "Hero" with a thousand faces for a reason.

The PT is to blame for confusing people with a whiny moppet as "hero" as well as future villain. And it was handled SO beautifully.

But to be fair, here at the end of the era of identity politics, people simply don't understand what a villain even is. Everyone is just "different" and their motives and sympathetic "story" must be taken into account. These days, Vader would be bullied in school, have had absent parents, and "acts out" because of that (aww, Ledger Joker's dad was a BAD man!,) but it's not really his fault. And yes, Identity Politics was born in the mid seventies, so the humpty-dumpty Anakin reveal of faux-redemption in 1983 was definitely prescient.

In the 1960's/70's, young people had reason to reject the ideology of their parents - it was powerful and a repudiation of some truly evil ideas (totalitarianism, racial segregation and superiority, hunger for war, perversion of organized religion etc.) that made SW resonate. THAT's why killing Vader was important and powerful.

Today, we are lost in a muddle of micro-aggression and trigger warnings - that's where villains like Kylo come from. Kill Dad because, well... because Mom and Dad are famous and he's not. Or because they "weren't around." Or something - what---ever.

 

[SilverStar17]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

Star Wars is a myth story. A hero/protagonist is the hero's journey. A villain/antagonist is the villain. They are distinct and different things. Joseph Campbell called it the "Hero" with a thousand faces for a reason.

The PT is to blame for confusing people with a whiny moppet as "hero" as well as future villain. And it was handled SO beautifully.

But to be fair, here at the end of the era of identity politics, people simply don't understand what a villain even is. Everyone is just "different" and their motives and sympathetic "story" must be taken into account. These days, Vader would be bullied in school, have had absent parents, and "acts out" because of that (aww, Ledger Joker's dad was a BAD man!,) but it's not really his fault. And yes, Identity Politics was born in the mid seventies, so the humpty-dumpty Anakin reveal of faux-redemption in 1983 was definitely prescient.

In the 1960's/70's, young people had reason to reject the ideology of their parents - it was powerful and a repudiation of some truly evil ideas (totalitarianism, racial segregation and superiority, hunger for war, perversion of organized religion etc.) that made SW resonate. THAT's why killing Vader was important and powerful.

Today, we are lost in a muddle of micro-aggression and trigger warnings - that's where villains like Kylo come from. Kill Dad because, well... because Mom and Dad are famous and he's not. Or because they "weren't around." Or something - what---ever.

Agree about today's society not knowing what a villain truly is. You have many terms and comparisons thrown around today with reckless abandon, that it actually dilutes the true meaning of the term and normalizes the actual true villain in which they're hyperbolically comparing someone to.

Both Kylo Ren and Vader were born out of their previous identities possessing a sense of entitlement.

 

[ShadowX81]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

Exactly. Today we put so much focus on understanding our enemies that weve almost stigmatized straight out opposing them. We can't even demonize fictional villians anymore without it seeming taboo, haha.


You just lose something in a story when you don't have a villain you can really hate.
Maybe you can develop them to the point where you can sympathize with them later on after they have become established, but you can't do it backwards like they seem to be doing with Kylo. ("Hes lame now, but don't worry, he will finally become a real villain in the next one")
Fear is too primal and instinctual to think your way to it (sort of like how you can't explain a joke while keeping it funny), and people in entertainment really don't seem to get that. Metaphors for our culture just aren't and never have been scary.

 

[Rudimus]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

I dunno, I hated Kylo pretty bad when he killed Han, remember saying "blast him" out loud when it happened. Chewbacca roaring & blasting Kylo was probably the most emotional & gratifying moment in TFA to me for that reason.

 

[TaliBane]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

Exactly. Today we put so much focus on understanding our enemies that weve almost stigmatized straight out opposing them. We can't even demonize fictional villians anymore without it seeming taboo, haha.


You just lose something in a story when you don't have a villain you can really hate.
Maybe you can develop them to the point where you can sympathize with them later on after they have become established, but you can't do it backwards like they seem to be doing with Kylo. ("Hes lame now, but don't worry, he will finally become a real villain in the next one")
Fear is too primal and instinctual to think your way to it (sort of like how you can't explain a joke while keeping it funny), and people in entertainment really don't seem to get that. Metaphors for our culture just aren't and never have been scary.

There's an old saying - a movie is only as good as its villain.

I dunno, I hated Kylo pretty bad when he killed Han, remember saying "blast him" out loud when it happened. Chewbacca roaring & blasting Kylo was probably the most emotional & gratifying moment in TFA to me for that reason.

You hate him in the way you hate a young punk who kills a Dad in a convenience store. The Kylo-Solo father/son relationship was totally unexplained, so other than 6-o'clock-news type anger at the senseless killing of a stand-up guy, I didn't feel much other than "no more Han" angst. Certainly nothing registered in the mythic father-son department.

Though, to be fair, even at that late point I was still trying to internally talk my way through the logic: "so... Han and Leia had a kid, and he grew up to be... our new Darth Vader? Like... in black cape with a helmet and everything? But... whiny and with tantrums they play for laughs?"

 

[karamazov80]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

There's an old saying - a movie is only as good as its villain.

I can think of several examples where that isn't the case. But. . .whiney baby Kylo didn't do tfa any favors, I agree.

 

[matticus]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

I simply blame JJ, Kennedy, Ford, Iger and anyone else that signed off on him getting killed off. I never truly understood Kylo, so I never really felt anything for him. I actually enjoyed his character til he took off his helmet then it went downhill from there. It all goes back to story and as awful as it was, it's hard to care for anyone in that movie.

 

[eczamurai]

Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Star Wars: Episode VII - Han & Chewbacca Collectible Figure

I simply blame JJ, Kennedy, Ford, Iger and anyone else that signed off on him getting killed off. I never truly understood Kylo, so I never really felt anything for him. I actually enjoyed his character til he took off his helmet then it went downhill from there. It all goes back to story and as awful as it was, it's hard to care for anyone in that movie.

He's like baby Bane: noone cared who I was untill I put on a mask.