1/6 Hot Toys - MMS275 -John Blake/ Jim Gordon with Bat-Signal Collectible Set

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Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

I need me a Scarecrow figure with a Cillian Murphy sculpt. That's my most wanted figure right now, especially since he shows up in all 3 films.


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Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

Uhm, no it is stealing. Hot Toys holds a copyright on the sculpt. To copy it and sell unauthorized versions is theft, pure and simple. It is a legally defined version of theft.

No, that's not stealing. It's copyright infringement.

This was settled in "Dowling vs. United States" in 1985.

Here's my suggestion, just stop talking abut this now before things get out of hand and someone gets reported - not only because you don't have the first clue what you're talking about.

You may disagree with me - and you may be ignorant of the facts - but that doesn't mean I don't have a clue about what I'm talking about. Feel free to post an actual argument, though, rather than just attempting to shout someone down.

And I don't mind if someone gets reported for uncivil behavior - I know I certainly haven't engaged in such, so if someone else does, then they should be reported and dealt with.
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

Ah, a case reference. Not really relevant. Arguing semantics and synonyms is not going to earn you any points. Copyright violation is also not robbery at sea, but it's been accepted use for decades to use the term piracy. So don't get hung up on a word. Instead, get hung up on the facts.

Fact one is that this thread is not the place for such a discussion, and fact two is that re-casting someone else's work for profit is absolutely and 100% against the rules of the site. PERIOD. So how about we leave it at that?

Or you can keep going of course, it's up to you.
 
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Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

Ah, a case reference. Not really relevant.

I think it's relevant to the discussion of whether or not it's theft, which is the only point I was trying to make. Someone said it was "stealing" and I was clarifying that no, it's not.

My point is this thread is not the place for such a discussion, and re-casting someone else's work for profit is absolutely and 100% against the rules of the site. PERIOD. So how about we leave it at that?

Nobody is contesting whether or not it's against the rules of the site (by which I assume you mean advertising the sale of such re-casts).

And I'm certainly not the one who brought up stealing and recasting into the discussion. People are talking about Batman figures, I noticed a misconception, and I corrected it. I don't have a dog in this fight, so I don't care if the discussion continues or not.
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

I think it's relevant to the discussion of whether or not it's theft,

:slap It's infringement specifically and technically. Most people know that. "Theft" as a legal term means something else, but in common language it's almost always going to be the default synonym used. So if you want to argue semantics, that's equally off topic for this thread. If that was your purpose, you didn't make it clear in your original comment which was instead very strongly biased toward an argument of legality. I really hope that no one's going to waste cycles in another thread arguing that point.
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

:slap It's infringement specifically and technically. Most people know that.

I disagree, I don't think most people know that (which is why I feel like it's important to clarify). Most people equate the act of copyright infringement with the act of theft - both legally and morally, and some of the responses you can see here seem to back that point. "Default synonyms," as you said.

They are in fact quite separate on both a legal level and a moral level (I personally believe that one is a morally worse crime than the other, just as murder is a morally worse crime than theft), and their use as synonyms is very problematic.

This confusion on the distinction is specifically promoted by high-level copyright holders (specifically large media companies), who use this confusion to their advantage, which is a large part of why I think it's important to combat that misconception.

I really hope that no one's going to waste cycles in another thread arguing that point.

Lol, you're right, their time would be much better spent re-hashing the fact that Hot Toys sometimes redoes their figures, that their prices are rising too fast, and they make too many Iron Man toys.

God knows that those are more interesting discussions and that even more can be said on those matters that hasn't already been said a thousand times.
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

I'm an independent designer and software developer, so anything that takes away my ability to put food on the table is problematic.

WRT re-using sculpts and subjects some might find mundane, I didn't say more interesting, but they fit the format of this forum, and at the end of the day, that's what's going to count. The Sandbox forum on the other hand is an open playground open to miscellaneous subjects.
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

As an artist and designer, if someone copies my work and resells it, it is theft. Maybe the law technically catagorizes it as infringement, but it is theft. It is a moral and legally actionable crime.

And companies have every right to protect their copyrights and IPs. Re-selling anyone else's work is theft. Trying to argue semantically that it is anything else is just wrong.
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

As an artist and designer, if someone copies my work and resells it, it is theft. Maybe the law technically catagorizes it as infringement, but it is theft. It is a moral and legally actionable crime.

And companies have every right to protect their copyrights and IPs. Re-selling anyone else's work is theft. Trying to argue semantically that it is anything else is just wrong.

You should go into the Legal profession. :exactly:
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

As an artist and designer, if someone copies my work and resells it, it is theft.

No, it's not.

A) If you paint a painting and I break into your house and take the painting, then I have committed theft (whether or not I later sell that painting), as you have been deprived of your property.

B) If you paint a painting and I xerox it and sell the copy, I haven't stolen anything from you - you still have your painting, and I have not committed theft. I have committed copyright infringement (whether or not I later sell that painting).

I think it's very clear that A is not the same as B (and I also think it's fairly self-evident that A is worse than B, though that's a different argument).

It is a moral and legally actionable crime.

I agree, but that doesn't make it theft. Theft is a very specific term and making or selling a copy of something does not qualify.

And companies have every right to protect their copyrights and IPs. Re-selling anyone else's work is theft.

I agree with the first statement, but not the second, and there's no logical connection between those two statements.

Trying to argue semantically that it is anything else is just wrong.

No, refusing to think critically about a situation is wrong. Confusing public opinion - by making a blanket statement and confusing the public discourse by muddying up terms incorrectly and using loaded terms inappropriately - is wrong.

Making an argument - and engaging in public, honest discourse - is never wrong.
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

I need me a Scarecrow figure with a Cillian Murphy sculpt. That's my most wanted figure right now, especially since he shows up in all 3 films.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's great that he became a recurring character like that. A proper figure of him would be a fine addition.
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

Your argument seems to be solely and entirely based around the specific and legal definition of the word "theft," and not the broader general term.

If someone writes a book and I copy it and sell it, that is legally plagiarism. But would anyone honestly argue that it isn't also theft?


Your entire argument is one of semantics. I am willing to bet that you have never actually created anything yourself.
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

What happened to Gordon in here? It's gotten like some whack mash-up of Law & Order done with doll parts....

Where's Gordon?
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

Your argument seems to be solely and entirely based around the specific and legal definition of the word "theft," and not the broader general term.

If someone writes a book and I copy it and sell it, that is legally plagiarism. But would anyone honestly argue that it isn't also theft?


Your entire argument is one of semantics. I am willing to bet that you have never actually created anything yourself.

That line made me really :lol
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

Yeah, I was gonna say... do you have a link to the Fox confirmation, good sir?

I was trying to find it, but can not, and do not have time for a throughout search, but it was said by Howard after ACE Toys announced their version of Fox, and he said something like "fans, just be patient... do not buy unlicenced Fox etc."
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

Your argument seems to be solely and entirely based around the specific and legal definition of the word "theft," and not the broader general term.

My argument is that the broader, general term is being perverted here to mean something that it hasn't in the past and shouldn't in the future. You should question why that term has been perverted in recent years - who has promoted that, and what is their motive?

These are nuanced considerations, but they're very important - and because of their subtlety and complexity, most people have remained ignorant of them. This ignorance has allowed some certain ugly people (mostly businessmen) to hoodwink artists out of their art and the general populace out of its own culture.

If someone writes a book and I copy it and sell it, that is legally plagiarism. But would anyone honestly argue that it isn't also theft?

I would. Like I said, it's a subtle difference - and these concepts are related - but they are distinct.

I honestly believe that if you stole a book from my bookstore and sold it, you are doing something worse than if you copied a book and sold that copy yourself.

I am willing to bet that you have never actually created anything yourself.

You would lose that bet.

(Though it doesn't really matter - an argument stands alone, on its own logic and reasoning, apart from whoever makes the argument, and they should always be judged as such, with an honest and open mind).
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

Let me rephrase that: I would be willing to bet that you have never actually created anything of value.

Now, I don't say that as an insult, but instead because I can promise it would affect your line of thinking on this subject.


Your fundamental argument is that Intellectual Property infringement doesn't rise to the same level of damage as literal physical theft.

I create things for a living and couldn't disagree more. I am an artist and rely on IP laws for my livelihood. If someone were to copy a design I made or print posters of an illustration I created, this both weakens the brands I produce and derives me of real world earnings. If someone copies my work, I literally lose something.

If something is considered by the general public, within either a small and devoted niche audience, or a large mainstream crowd, to be significant and sought after, it creates a value in that thing. Marvel/Disney and DC/Warner Bros have created IPs that the public has deemed to have significant value. The demand creates that value. Hot Toys creates incredibly well done collectibles that we, their audience, have declared to have value.

By purchasing and enjoying these items we have given their individual IPs value. The companies that control these IPs have full right and very well should protect them. Corporate America does plenty of incredibly ****y things on a daily basis, but IP protection is not one of them. This isn't some limited natural resource that they have cornered and are keeping from us. These are products that we have deemed worthy of our time and money. We have dictated their value.

Plenty of hardworking and well paid artists are responsible for these works. And I can guarantee they are well paid. And I can guarantee that they know what they are doing when they sign their contracts. When a talented artist makes something good they are rewarded. Nobody is being taken advantage of.

The only artists who get "hoodwinked" out of their art are young ones who are desperate for any opportunity, and who, more often than not, are not the caliber of artists capable of creating something so amazing that it would inspire others to rip them off.


I make very good money as an artist. I am compensated very well for signing over the IP rights to things I create for other individuals and corporations. IP theft hurts the artists even more than it hurts the big horrible corporations. If someone is making and selling cheap copies of an artists work, then that cuts into the profits made by the company employing them, and ultimately the ability of that artist to continue to create more. And obviously by copying it, they have acknowledged the skill and quality of the original piece and the artist who created it.

This isn't about big greedy corporations, it's about hurting the artists and people who create the things that we enjoy. We assign them value by enjoying them. If a company spits out cheap ****, no one will buy it.

Your argument seems to be one of justifying IP theft, and maybe you are just arguing for the sake of arguing, but I can promise you, IP infringement hurts artist more than anyone else.
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

Spotted at SDCC!

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Ah, here he is......(again)!

So....when are the prosecution and defense going to rest in the ongoing case in here? :)
 
Re: 1/6 Hot Toys - TDKR - Batman Spotlight w/ Robin and Gordon (Various Sets)

So....when are the prosecution and defense going to rest in the ongoing case in here? :)

Who thinks my initial terse reply was unwarranted? I think I might see only one hand up. ;) Nip it in the bud is always the best move in situations like this one.
 
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