12 shot dead at movie theater

[Niltusk]

My question is "is there anything we as a society should change" and I guess you've answered your side sufficiently and thus no need to reply further, is that "nope, our actions, images and words can never ever contribute to the actions, images and words of another human being because we all are individual people on our own individual planets."

wow...

 

[devilof76]

Thats great on the outside, but dig deeper and it almost becomes a "the sheep deserve to be sheered for being sheep" analogy. No one victim is society, its a sum of millions.

Germany voted itself---ecstatically---into Nazism.

Which of those sheep were innocent?

 

[hairlesswookiee]

Sorry, I don't claim to have the answer. That's the point of having the conversation. But in black and white land you're free to be the only person there and set your own rules.

Again, I'm not claiming the guilty (don't even need to call him a suspect) is not guilty of his own actions. No one at all is trying to divert blame or responsibility.

My question is "is there anything we as a society should change" and I guess you've answered your side sufficiently and thus no need to reply further, is that "nope, our actions, images and words can never ever contribute to the actions, images and words of another human being because we all are individual people on our own individual planets."

What I think is that a lot of people like myself are looking for a reason, and some of the other members in here are seeing it as an excuse. What caused him to do this? Social factors? Parenting? Lack of?
I'm not giving excuses, but trying to find the reason.

 

[ProgMatinee]

wow...

you like that one?

Seriously, you can't believe society moved into in an "age of entitlement" if you don't believe that society impacts people's thinking. Otherwise it would have to be a giant coincidence that everyone feels the same entitlement, rather than a thought process that is passed between people.

If "entitlement" can be passed between people, can't disenchantment, anger, resentment, hate, disrespect for life, etc?

 

[Niltusk]

you like that one?

Seriously, you can't believe society moved into in an "age of entitlement" if you don't believe that society impacts people's thinking. Otherwise it would have to be a giant coincidence that everyone feels the same entitlement, rather than a thought process that is passed between people.

If "entitlement" can be passed between people, can't disenchantment, anger, resentment, hate, disrespect for life, etc?

You're the embodiment of entitlement. Thats the rub.

 

[devilof76]

There's a quote from Lenin to the effect of, "Seven people now fully understand Soviet Marxism. The revolution is guaranteed."

Turn of the century Russia was dumb as bricks, and really good at believing what they were told, but you don't have to be the dumbest of the dumb to still be ____ing dumb.

America is getting dumb. ____ing dumb.

 

[ProgMatinee]

You're the embodiment of entitlement. Thats the rub.

Pfft. oh ok.

 

[Niltusk]

Germany voted itself---ecstatically---into Nazism.

Which of those sheep were innocent?

Yes, you're right, every single German was guilty of what happened.

Probably their dogs were in on it too.

 

[devilof76]

Their victims weren't guilty.

 

[devilof76]

You're the embodiment of entitlement. Thats the rub.

America is getting dumb. ____ing dumb.

Are you even listening to him?

 

[Niltusk]

Their victims weren't guilty.

No, in your imagination every person in Germany was all for it.

 

[DarthNeil]

There is a lack of hope. A simple word-- but the feeling of hopelessness pervades many people's lives (tie in to TDKR?). Re-invigorate the space program and aim for manned missions to Mars. Set a target date to replace all fossil fuel consumption with clean energy. Create hope... and maybe people will stop waiting for the end of the world as if it's an inevitability... or try to bring about their own insane end of the world action as this lunatic did.

 

[Niltusk]

Are you even listening to him?

Yes, aren't you? He thinks hes entitled to know something, which tons of people have already informed him just isn't possible at this point in time without (as Nam put it) something like ESP.

Theres thousands, probably millions of factors that they could investigate as to how he came to be to the position hes at. Most people understand this very easy truth early on. Asking the same thing repeatedly on a message board doesn't will it into existence.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Why are you getting upset Niltusk? Just remember that you're not a product of the environment so whatever goes on here my "entitlement" and all, you can exist in happy land all by yourself, no need to be mad at us who live on separate planes of existence than you.

As for being entitled to "know" what caused this guy to do it, its not like I want to know but not let you or anyone else know. So I really don't understand your point.

 

[devilof76]

You're not a product of your environment. You're free to judge every last scrap of information you receive from outside of your head, and act according to your decision about what is right or wrong.

Until you aren't. But it's not a natural condition.

 

[csi]

Sorry, I don't claim to have the answer. That's the point of having the conversation. But in black and white land you're free to be the only person there and set your own rules.

Again, I'm not claiming the guilty (don't even need to call him a suspect) is not guilty of his own actions. No one at all is trying to divert blame or responsibility.

My question is "is there anything we as a society should change" and I guess you've answered your side sufficiently and thus no need to reply further, is that "nope, our actions, images and words can never ever contribute to the actions, images and words of another human being because we all are individual people on our own individual planets."

see my problem with your line of "thinking" is you don't have an answer, but you also don't really have a problem you can identify. Your trying to find one within society that most likely isn't there. Are there things in society that could and/or should be changed? Absolutely!! Should people work on how they treat each other? Ten four good buddy! Do any of these factors cause an individual to go on a random shooting spree at the movies. NOPE!!! That falls squarely on him. I don't understand your line of we must look at society and find the problem and then fix it mentality. If there was a specific problem, it would be quite apparent. If a video game like COD caused people to go on random shooting sprees we would have seen that link by now. The fact that you can't find one most likely means there isn't one.

And lets say for a minute that this guy did have some crazy association with Batman comics and wanted to be the Joker and randomly kill a bunch of people. Is that an indictment on Batman comics? Is that an indictment on society? Are these shootings common place? Or is it more likely this guy has a screw loose?

 

[devilof76]

There is a specific problem, and it is not readily apparent.

But it ain't Batman.

Theres thousands, probably millions of factors that they could investigate as to how he came to be to the position hes at. Most people understand this very easy truth early on. Asking the same thing repeatedly on a message board doesn't will it into existence.

Are you saying there wasn't a cause to his actions?

 

[Niltusk]

Why are you getting upset Niltusk? Just remember that you're not a product of the environment so whatever goes on here, you can exist in happy land, no need to be mad.

Yep, just raging. I think people have seen me on this board start to rant. Not even close, but thanks for caring?

I see your thinking ranges into wild assumptions also.

 

[csi]

There is a specific problem, and it is not readily apparent.

How can you say there is a "specific problem" when you can't identify it?

 

[Niltusk]

There is a specific problem, and it is not readily apparent.

But it ain't Batman.



Are you saying there wasn't a cause to his actions?

Well according to your platitudes, you caused it. Too simplistic, but it will definitely fit neatly into Prog wanting there to be a simple answer.

Sorry, but I think someone searching for the simple answer is just a simple mind. Any case like this is complex and to think you know the root of it is just being naive.

Its like saying you get sick because you go out in the cold. Well, that may have been an influencing factor of it, but obviously just being cold doesn't make you magically sick.