12 shot dead at movie theater

[ProgMatinee]

So we are de-evolutionizing? Not getting better as a whole?



Where do you suggest we get back to good old fashioned values? Slavery? putting women back in their place? Or maybe start killing people on our borders for land expansion?

Suggesting we haven't come a long way in the past couple hundred years especially compared to a timeline of history is beyong naive, its just whacky.

Hmm. From that perspective you're right. Those are corporate institutions that people did bring down. I'm thinking more about individual's actions such as this nut ball. I can see how your argument works better if you forget that.

 

[hoodonit00]

I think a huge part in this is our government doing everything in their power to slowly bleed our freedoms out of our very bodies.

Our grandparents fought for our freedoms. Today our younger generation applauds it being taken away as they accept the free hand outs the government gives them.

 

[Niltusk]

Hmm. From that perspective you're right. Those are corporate institutions that people did bring down. I'm thinking more about individual's actions such as this nut ball. I can see how your argument works better if you forget that.

My argument works fine with him included. Please educate yourself on killers in history. You think psychotic cold blooded kilers have a root in modern American society?

just sayin brother, you got some interesting views going on...

 

[devilof76]

You think the problem with America has its roots in American society?

You asking nicely wouldn't work either.

I guess you're just going to have to live with it. Don't say I didn't try.

 

[Niltusk]

I guess you're just going to have to live with it. Don't say I didn't try.

I said it wouldn't work, I didn't say you couldn't try.

By all means ask nicely!

 

[DarthNeil]

Please keep things civil even if you vehemently disagree with someone else's opinion.

 

[Niltusk]

Did I miss something, this is like the most civil I think this discussion has ever been.

Or was that a just in case?

 

[thenammagazine]

I think too many of the thinkers in this thread are being hooked into the cyclical horse____ being spewed by a few who just wanna point fingers to get a rise out of people.

 

[Niltusk]

I think too many of the thinkers in this thread are buying into the cyclical horse____ being spewed by a few who just wanna point fingers to get a rise out of people.

I'm not buying it, just burning a little time before lunch.

This is actually my only contact with this besides friends talking about it, I refuse to watch anything related to the shootings on TV.

 

[devilof76]

You're an oak.

I think too many of the thinkers in this thread are being hooked into the cyclical horse____ being spewed by a few who just wanna point fingers to get a rise out of people.

Do you think so? Like who?

 

[thenammagazine]

Do you think so? Like who?

 

[devilof76]

 

[Deckard]

CNN has the first live shots in the prelim trial, he does indeed have red hair.

 

[The Ween]

CNN has the first live shots in the prelim trial, he does indeed have red hair.

He didn't just recently dye that hair.

 

[user 1190]

He didn't just recently dye that hair.

Funny but sad thing is I am sitting in airport and a number of people here are saying they should have made him shave his stupid red hair. It sometimes amazes me how clueless our general population can be.

 

[The Ween]

Funny but sad thing is I am sitting in airport and a number of people here are saying they should have made him shave his stupid red hair. It sometimes amazes me how clueless our general population can be.

They used to do that when guys went to prison. They shaved their heads.

He looks like they should zap him with a cattle prod to wake him up!

 

[Wulf]

You're courting a massive, convoluted red herring here.

If you have come to the conclusion that eating meat is atrocious, and you have integrated it to the deepest levels of your psyche, then the taste of meat is going to cause revulsion in you. That is the consequence of an accumulation of choices. The cheeseburger you loved as a child will taste the same, but it will not bring you pleasure.

Reaction to stimuli is emotional, and emotions are the result of the choices you make and the ideas you accept. If you do not pay attention to those processes, do not discriminate between ideas, and allow whatever emotional content to develop that happens to develop, I'm sure it will appear as though you had nothing to do with it. In truth, your default is what created your emotional state. You permitted your soul to be molded by others.



The content of your mind and the functions of your anatomy are two completely different categories. The latter is not even a conscious action, and is not up for consideration when arguing for volition or determinism. (But, we are getting to the heart of your fixation on taste.)

You can most certainly resist the religion your family brought you up in. It is 100% your choice to believe or not. There isn't even a perceptual level analog for that (such as the reaction of a tongue to food). That is the highest level of conceptual abstraction and it is nothing like seeing green or tasting mushrooms.


Whatever it was that imposed the first 'conditioning'. Who conditioned the first conditioner?

The answer is in evolution and the first lifeform that came into being, the answer would mean having to go through billions of years of evolution and history to see how the first lifeforms interacted with each other, evolved and later become more complex. We don't have the time or will to do that. You say you know the cases against free will but if you are asking these questions and making these arguments I don't think you have.

I don't think that atoms can create free will or a "soul" in the sense which is independent from how the body and brain works. It might create awareness but we are just aware of our life but there's no such thing as free will. We think we have it but our will is influenced by everything that happens in our life. The processes that happens in the brain which consists of hundreds of billion neurons connected to hundreds of trillions synapses is where our actions, beliefs etc are processed and we see that as our choice. The effects of the causes are almost unpredictable with so much information coming in from the outside to such a complex brain.

I don't think a person is born with the will to kill people, because that would mean that some people are biologically murderers and just have bad luck of bad genes. So where does the idea/action of murdering people come from?

Note: I'm not saying that the murderer isn't guilty of his own actions and that he is somehow innocent. This guy is obviously a psychopath, but how did he become one? Was he born that way? Was it his own "free will" to become one? I'm not saying society taught him to become one. It's more complex than that. I'm saying that everything that happened in his life shaped him to what he is. Be it bad or good.

We are both basically saying the same but I'm saying that there is a source to our choices, personalities, beliefs, actions etc. They don't come out of thin air. So where do they come from? You keep repeating that the individual makes the choices independently from others/external forces/society/life experience, so where does these choices come from if not the brain? Is there a part in the brain that is free from the physical laws of the brain and the processes that takes place there?

 

[hoodonit00]

The answer is in evolution and the first lifeform that came into being, the answer would mean having to go through billions of years of evolution and history to see how the first lifeforms interacted with each other, evolved and later become more complex. We don't have the time or will to do that. You say you know the cases against free will but if you are asking these questions and making these arguments I don't think you have.

I don't think that atoms can create free will or a "soul" in the sense which is independent from how the body and brain works. It might create awareness but we are just aware of our life but there's no such thing as free will. We think we have it but our will is influenced by everything that happens in our life. The processes that happens in the brain which consists of hundreds of billion neurons connected to hundreds of trillions synapses is where our actions, beliefs etc are processed and we see that as our choice. The effects of the causes are almost unpredictable with so much information coming in from the outside to such a complex brain.

I don't think a person is born with the will to kill people, because that would mean that some people are biologically murderers and just have bad luck of bad genes. So where does the idea/action of murdering people come from?

Note: I'm not saying that the murderer isn't guilty of his own actions and that he is somehow innocent. This guy is obviously a psychopath, but how did he become one? Was he born that way? Was it his own "free will" to become one? I'm not saying society taught him to become one. It's more complex than that. I'm saying that everything that happened in his life shaped him to what he is. Be it bad or good.

We are both basically saying the same but I'm saying that there is a source to our choices, personalities, beliefs, actions etc. They don't come out of thin air. So where do they come from? You keep repeating that the individual makes the choices independently from others/external forces/society/life experience, so where does these choices come from if not the brain? Is there a part in the brain that is free from the physical laws of the brain and the processes that takes place there?

I become angry when I read your post. If I ever go off the deep end I am blaming you.

 

[devilof76]

Is there a part in the brain that is free from the physical laws of the brain and the processes that takes place there?

Yes. Consciousness is not the brain. Volitional consciousness is in control of itself.

 

[Wulf]

Yes. Consciousness is not the brain.

What? I don't believe in consciousness?

Edit: You changed your comment...

Consciousness is not the brain? WTF?