82nd ACADEMY AWARD Nominations

[karamazov80]

I think your standards may be too high. Elian Gonzales and Terri Shiavo both had a cultural impact...a big one. To brush these stories off as events that "come and go" with the likes of paparazzi stories of Hugh Grant's prostitute is troubling.

What exactly does a film need to do for you to agree it has had a cultural impact? Avatar has transformed the 3D film from a gimmick to an viable, profit-making tool for films in the future. If you are waiting for a new powerhouse religion to emerge from a film's impact then you will be waiting a long time, these are only movies after all. By your standards even Star Wars has not had a cultural impact, because beyond people "knowing about it," albeit for a long time, what else is there? No worldwide powerhouse Jedi religion basking at the greatness of the savior, Mark Hamil.

Star Wars has had a significant cultural impact, and so has Avatar up to this point. Like I said, it is only debatable if you want a film to bring about nirvana across the world before it has a cultural impact. Besides that, I first brought up cultural phenomenon, not impact. Something that has taken the world by storm. Like it or not, Avatar has done this, as has Twilight and Titanic. If you want to debate the longevity of Avatar's impact, that is another story.

I think that defining something as having a "cultural impact" implies a longevity of effect. Star Wars did have this effect that I'm talking about, but we only know this looking back on it. Terri Shiavo similarly had an effect, a massive effect, but it came and went and the only possible repercussions are that some ********* politicians who tried to capitalize on it were thrown out of office come next election. Do people still frequently think about it? Does it pervade the public consciousness somehow? Has it shifted our nation's priorities regarding issues of life and death for people who are on a breathing machine? I don't think so. Every year we probably get 20-30 cases that make the headlines for awhile and are forgotten about. Until I see a real reason to think otherwise, I am going to assume that Avatar is in this boat.

To me, this is like claiming that a U.S. President is "great" without historical hindsight. You don't know how great someone is until you have had a chance to move away from it.

 

[316what]

People still quote from Pulp Fiction but you'd be hard pressed to ever hear "Vincent Vega" ever come up in common conversation.

But you'll hear "The Gimp" fairly often.

 

[IrishJedi]

Luca M'fing Brasi FTW!

Definitely Fredo, too. That's actually become a term for an ostracized brother/cousin/family member in some circles. In fact at Notre Dame, we nicknamed Boston College "Fredo".

 

[The Josh]

But not as cultural touchstones. Now, these movies come and go quite rapidly.

And today when TITANIC is brought up in a discussion 9 times out of ten it's due to mocking its box office and critical success.

Also, there is a difference between being a current pop culture topic of discussion (AVATAR) and a film having a true cultural impact (STAR WARS, which literally inspired a large portion of a generation all on its own).

Well, they didn't change the culture that I agree with.

It does get mocked I agree. I make fun of it but thats mainly to give my sister a hard time cause she loves that movie.

The only thing in Avatars defense is the movie just came out. We won't know for years what kind of impact it will have. Will it pull a SW? I don't know. I doubt it but to say it won't isn't accurate right now IMO.

Avatar was a cool flick. I enjoyed the hell out of it. Its not among my all time faves though but I will buy it when it comes out on BR.

In the end though as far as cultural impact of movies. I could give a damn less. I want to see something I enjoy and lets me escape for a few hours. If a film can do that then I'm cool.

Double agreed. The only other franchise that came close was LotR and that pretty much just fizzled out. The hobbit will bring it back for a bit but it will just die again except for the extreme loyalists.

Yes, and no actually. I mean LOTR has been around for a long time and sustained a decent amount of popularity. I can handle I guess being one of those extreme loyalists. Though, you are totally using the term a bit out of context.

I am ok with that personally, I would rather purity to the franchise than umpteen forms of merchandise like chopsticks and tennis shoes.

I am as well. Bandwagon fans suck! They love it while its hot and then its awful when they've moved on to the next big thing. I like it when they've moved on to their next big thing and those that ACTUALLY enjoy that said item can talk about it.

 

[LChinoz]

I think that defining something as having a "cultural impact" implies a longevity of effect. Star Wars did have this effect that I'm talking about, but we only know this looking back on it. Terri Shiavo similarly had an effect, a massive effect, but it came and went and the only possible repercussions are that some ********* politicians who tried to capitalize on it were thrown out of office come next election. Do people still frequently think about it? Does it pervade the public consciousness somehow? Has it shifted our nation's priorities regarding issues of life and death for people who are on a breathing machine? I don't think so. Every year we probably get 20-30 cases that make the headlines for awhile and are forgotten about. Until I see a real reason to think otherwise, I am going to assume that Avatar is in this boat.

To me, this is like claiming that a U.S. President is "great" without historical hindsight. You don't know how great someone is until you have had a chance to move away from it.

Then we're not so much talking about impact but longevity and relevance. This is a totally different argument and I don't disagree with you that the jury is still out.

 

[IrishJedi]

Quantify for me the "cultural impact" AVATAR has made so far without simply pointing to box office numbers.

(Also, spoofs like the Ben Stiller skit don't equal cultural impact because those occur with anything that's currently topical these days).

 

[karamazov80]

Then we're not so much talking about impact but longevity and relevance. This is a totally different argument and I don't disagree with you that the jury is still out.

How do you determine the real impact of something without taking it's long-term influence into account, though? That's my question. Did it strongly influence some people? Yes, of course it did. Is it going to broadly influence the public so that we will look back on this as a major historical influence on culture? Maybe, we don't know yet. Did it do groundbreaking things technically? Yes, of course it did. Did it influence the future path of films and move 3-D beyond the realm of being a cheap gimmick? Maybe, we don't know yet.

I just don't think of "culture" as something that you can understand by examining a few isolated instances of crazy behavior, late night jokes, box office numbers, and technical achievement alone (not that its box office achievements, impressive as they are, are all that some people make it out to be: https://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm ).

 

[The Josh]

Quantify for me the "cultural impact" AVATAR has made so far without simply pointing to box office numbers.

(Also, spoofs like the Ben Stiller skit don't equal cultural impact because those occur with anything that's currently topical these days).

Could we do that with SW though back in 77? I mean seriously films that have an impact like that don't do it within months of it coming out.

 

[Kuzeh]

How do you determine the real impact of something without taking it's long-term influence into account, though? That's my question. Did it strongly influence some people? Yes, of course it did. Is it going to broadly influence the public so that we will look back on this as a major historical influence on culture? Maybe, we don't know yet. Did it do groundbreaking things technically? Yes, of course it did. Did it influence the future path of films and move 3-D beyond the realm of being a cheap gimmick? Maybe, we don't know yet.

I just don't think of "culture" as something that you can understand by examining a few isolated instances of crazy behavior, late night jokes, box office numbers, and technical achievement alone (not that its box office achievements, impressive as they are, are all that some people make it out to be: https://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm ).

But it IS a reflection of our current culture...
It might not be as "cultural" as we might want it, but it definitely defines what most people perceive as "culture"

 

[karamazov80]

If that's indeed the case, then I will concede that it is a "cultural phenomenon" and has had a "cultural impact" at least on par with that of Star Wars kid, and possibly as much as Tom Cruise jumping on Oprah's couch

 

[LChinoz]

Quantify for me the "cultural impact" AVATAR has made so far without simply pointing to box office numbers.

(Also, spoofs like the Ben Stiller skit don't equal cultural impact because those occur with anything that's currently topical these days).

I posted it a few pages back. The fact is Avatar at this moment is a cultural phenomenon. Without box office numbers and longevity what defines Star Wars' cultural impact? You can be general and say it "changed a generation" but really, what are your standards? If Avatar enjoys the same relevance it has now 20 years from now then I assume you will say it had a cultural impact?

 

[IrishJedi]

Could we do that with SW though back in 77? I mean seriously films that have an impact like that don't do it within months of it coming out.

That's immaterial. Some are saying that AVATAR has had an obvious cultural impact (outside of just its quick box office success).

Where is the evidence that AVATAR has had any true impact on our culture and has permeated the mainstream's daily consciousness? What are they talking about? A couple forums with 100 or so delusional fans? Ben Stiller skits? Toys collecting dust on store shelves? What is it???

 

[karamazov80]

That's immaterial. Some are saying that AVATAR has had an obvious cultural impact (outside of just its quick box office success).

Where is the evidence that AVATAR has had any true impact on our culture and has permeated the mainstream's daily consciousness? What are they talking about? A couple forums with 100 or so delusional fans? Ben Stiller skits? Toys collecting dust on store shelves? What is it???

That and some protests at an Israeli settlement, I think.

 

[Kuzeh]

If that's indeed the case, then I will concede that it is a "cultural phenomenon" and has had a "cultural impact" at least on par with that of Star Wars kid, and possibly as much as Tom Cruise jumping on Oprah's couch

Yep, now imagine this...

If Archeologist from a Post-Apocalyptic scenario tried to piece together what our culture was, they would definitely think that it was heavily all the main-stream "cultural phenomena"...

 

[karamazov80]

I don't disagree. I just don't think that Avatar is one of the things those guys are going to notice when they sift through the rubble (at least, not yet). I do think McDonald's has had a massive cultural impact. I think Star Wars has. I think that Nike and Wal-Mart have. People from the future in a post-apocalyptic world would also think of this, because the imprints of these things can be felt everywhere. They are imbedded into the social fabric. That is what a true impact on culture is. My threshold for that is high, because I don't think every popular youtube video or the hottest new rap album are necessarily going to impact the culture in the way that these other things have.

Now Keyboard Cat--there is your cultural touchstone.

 

[IrishJedi]

I posted it a few pages back. The fact is Avatar at this moment is a cultural phenomenon.

No, it's a BOX OFFICE phenomenon, which is not the same thing. It's just been topical/current... but you can already see signs of that going away. I want to see this evidence of cultural impact.

Without box office numbers and longevity what defines Star Wars' cultural impact? You can be general and say it "changed a generation" but really, what are your standards?

That one's pretty easy. STAR WARS permeated the mainstream and created iconic characters, names, situations, phrases, etc. that are used all over the place by many different types of people to this very day. It also inspired a large amount of the people in our generation who work in the film/entertainment industry today (and other fields) and established lifelong relationships and hobbies for people. Dare I say that had SW not come out in 1977 many of us would likely not even be here having this discussion on this board. And that is a cultural impact.

If Avatar enjoys the same relevance it has now 20 years from now then I assume you will say it had a cultural impact?

Sure. If it's in the mainstream consciousness 20 years from now then certainly it would have earned that label. But seeing that it's barely there now aside from being the latest box office phenomenon...

 

[LChinoz]

That's immaterial. Some are saying that AVATAR has had an obvious cultural impact (outside of just its quick box office success).

Where is the evidence that AVATAR has had any true impact on our culture and has permeated the mainstream's daily consciousness? What are they talking about? A couple forums with 100 or so delusional fans? Ben Stiller skits? Toys collecting dust on store shelves? What is it???

A lot of this post is hyperbole. The same could be said about SW fans back in 1977 being delusional.

 

[The Josh]

That's immaterial. Some are saying that AVATAR has had an obvious cultural impact (outside of just its quick box office success).

Where is the evidence that AVATAR has had any true impact on our culture and has permeated the mainstream's daily consciousness? What are they talking about? A couple forums with 100 or so delusional fans? Ben Stiller skits? Toys collecting dust on store shelves? What is it???

No its not immaterial. Its in fact the point being lost by both sides. The true impact won't be know for a long time. That I'm sorry is a fact. Arguing if it does or hasn't had an impact yet is fun to read and participate in but is just more about getting your two cents in at this point. (I can say this cause I don't give a damn either way) Both films I'm sure had or have had some kind of impact right away. Small I'm sure things like a renewed awareness of taking care of our planet or something like that. (which I think is pretty important but what do I know) SW wise I don't what happened in 77 I wasn't born just yet.

 

[IrishJedi]

A lot of this post is hyperbole. The same could be said about SW fans back in 1977 being delusional.

My next post (just above yours) more clearly states the specifics behind just some of the cultural impact of SW.

 

[IrishJedi]

No its not immaterial. Its in fact the point being lost by both sides. The true impact won't be know for a long time. That I'm sorry is a fact. Arguing if it does or hasn't had an impact yet is fun to read and participate in but is just more about getting your two cents in at this point. (I can say this cause I don't give a damn either way) Both films I'm sure had or have had some kind of impact right away. Small I'm sure things like a renewed awareness of taking care of our planet or something like that. (which I think is pretty important but what do I know) SW wise I don't what happened in 77 I wasn't born just yet.

The point is that some want to compare AVATAR's impact to STAR WARS now... already, and that is silly. It's not even in the same stratosphere yet, aside from making a crap-ton of money.