ALIEN and ALIENS Thread...

[Wor-Gar]

The hands and feet still don't do it for me!

I know what you mean.

Hey, Batty, can you do a sceen grab of the Queen vs. powerloader wideshot from ALIENS -- I asked on the Queen thread but you may not look there. I'm curious to see just how big this 1/6th Queen and loader would be.

 

[dekadentdave]

Just posted shots in the Queen thread. Look there.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Excellent, thanks!

So other than hands and feet, anyone know what the differences are in the ALIENS warriors? And how they differ from the original Alien?

One thing, they have more "piping" along the sides of their heads, right?

 

[galactiboy]

Yeah, I don't prefer the overall look of these Aliens, but I think the quality of the figures is really starting to sway me. And it does seem like the hands and feet have some level of flexibility as well.

 

[KamenGuyver]

The fingers on HT Alien are bendable.

 

[ambac]

Excellent, thanks!

So other than hands and feet, anyone know what the differences are in the ALIENS warriors? And how they differ from the original Alien?

One thing, they have more "piping" along the sides of their heads, right?

Off the top pf my head, the ALIENS warrior suits had these differences from the ALIEN suit;

They were made to look more lanky in proportions to try to get more of an insectoid feel to them. Very preying mantis like.

The fingers were very long. Also, no second thumb.

There were "fins" or "blades" attached to the forearms.

Coloration was more on the bluish side.

The most obvious difference was the lack of a translucent dome on the head, the only alien suits to lack them. All others have had a dome.

The front of the head does not have the skull eye sockets. Presumably filled in when the decision to omit the dome was made.

A little unsure of this, but I don't believe the ALIENS warriors had chrome teeth. I think the ALIEN suit was the only one with chrome teeth in the series.

Other than that, the basic details, such as pipes, and ribs, and spines, was pretty much the same as the ALIEN suit. I don't think they had any more pipe detail on the side of the head.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Very informative -- thanks!

The one difference that I really didn't like on the Cameron aliens was the lack of that shiny, slippery, translucent head. I always thought that was a brilliant touch. Nasty, slimy, and yet it seemed infinitely functional as the alien's massive sensory mechanism.

I also loved the chrome teeth in the first alien.

 

[abake]

That probably sums it up...

The way I look at it, it's quite simple.
IU (in universe) the differences between Skull (as we Alien geeks affectionately call the creature from the first movie because of the eye sockets), AKA Kane's son, and the warriors found in Hadley's Hope are as follows:

Lack of dome and lack of eye sockets.
Different hands, with index and middle finger fused, and fourth and pinky also fused. Fingers extremely elongated, giving the aliens that "praying mantis" look. Skull had six fingers (two opposed thumbs).
Blades on forearms.
Different feet, with an extra fifth toe (Skull only had four toes) sticking out almost in the middle of the foot.
In general, they seemed to be taller and thinner than Skull.

OOU (out of universe) there are a couple of thoughts to add. Cameron used highly simplyfied (sp?) suits to allow for more mobility, so they lacked a lot of detail. The stunt doubles were also regular fellows, no 7' ultra thin Masai warriors among them... but they used a lot of animatronic puppets, and these were very very thin, thinner than good ole Bolaji.
The head and mouth mechanisms were mostly identical, probably somewhat updated from what Rambaldi did.
Also, most of the suits (if not all) did not have the fifth spike under the elongated skull.

Another thing, after years of discussion, most alien geeks agree that IU the aliens are all black. It's just the different lighting that makes them look different colors... but that's us geeks.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I love all this, its really interesting. You bring up points I never realized...or at least haven't thought about since I first saw ALIEN.

I know the original ALIEN alien like the back of my hand. Never got quite as obsessed with the other versions of aliens. But its cool to know. I wonder what the justification for the changes is...IU.

 

[abake]

Oh, you don't want to go there...

Seriously, it's a never ending debate!
Here's one very cool forum I still visit sometimes, although it's pretty dead nowadays:

https://www.gamegossip.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=52

Now these guys know their alien stuff.
They can be a bit of a pain sometimes, but there's tons of info there. i even posted a long disertation on the differences between aliens throughout the movies once, who knows where it is now...

Anyway, the most widespread theory is that aliens absorb certain traits from their hosts, thus always looking slightly different. Then there's the generational theory, and another one that looks into the effects of the environment. I don't even remember half of the stuff we used to discuss there!

 

[Wor-Gar]

Thanks for the link.

I do know about the "absorption" theory obviously, hence the humanoid form, the dog form, etc. I always wished they explored that more -- like the Alien toy line did. A Croc alien would be wicked. Anyway...

My real question was -- why 6 fingers, then five... or 4 toes, then 5... why dome or no dome? I'm sure it has more to do with the filmmakers than anything, but I was curious if the "alien-geeks" have commited to a theory that covers this... For instance, selective genetics for best survival? Immediate mutation to advance evolution...of course I guess they don't need to evolve if they simply assume the form of the host.

Nothing really explains the loss of dome on the Cameron aliens though.

 

[dekadentdave]

The dome was to protect the cranial membrane on the original Alien. The Alien Warriors from Aliens did not require a dome because they have an exoskeletal cranium therefore they do not require a dome for protection of the membrane. From a production standpoint, I'm sure it was quicker to manufacture the warrior heads by not casting a fiberglass dome from a cost/time factor and they look cool anyway without it. And please say nothing more of the stupid Kenner Aliens. Those things were dumb. Very very dumb.

 

[Wor-Gar]

And please say nothing more of the stupid Kenner Aliens. Those things were dumb. Very very dumb.

I agree. But I like the idea behind the xenomorph.

The dome was to protect the cranial membrane on the original Alien. The Alien Warriors from Aliens did not require a dome because they have an exoskeletal cranium therefore they do not require a dome for protection of the membrane.

Yeah but why?

Maybe the dome hardens in time... maybe its just a "young" thing, as you say to protect the cranium. Thus, Cameron aliens, having their way with LV426, have had time to age. Who knows? I was just curious.

 

[dekadentdave]

The Aliens on LV-426 were warrior drones who were spawned to serve the Queen. They are fiercer and therefore their exoskeletons evolved to protect them in fierce combat. As for the warriors in AVP, I have no idea. Perhaps they wanted to go back to the original Giger design for aesthetics. As for the Giger Alien, it was a lone Alien whose only purpose was to find hosts to perpetuate the species, hence the gathering of Dallas and the others in the coccoons. Instinctually, this Alien had to propagate a new colony and impregnate a host with a new Queen. That was its only purpose. It was not a warrior.

 

[Wor-Gar]

OK, I buy that I guess. Makes sense, at least as far as the first 2 Aliens go... which are the only two that matter.

 

[ambac]

Thanks for the link.

I do know about the "absorbtion" theory obviously, hence the humanoid form, the dog form, etc. I always wished they explored that more -- like the Alien toy line did. Anyway...

My real question was -- why 6 fingers, then five... or 4 toes, then 5... why dome or no dome? I'm sure it has more to do with the filmmakers than anything, but I was curious if the "alien-geeks" have commited to a theory that covers this... For instance, selective genetics for best survival? Immediate mutation to advance evolution...of course I guess they don't need to evolve if they simply assume the form of the host.

Nothing really explains the loss of dome on the Cameron aliens though.

Bottom line is that creative people tend to not like doing the same thing that someone before them has already done. Much as I would love my favorite alien design used in all the movies, whomever is making the movie is going to have a different take on it. They're going to ask how they can improve on the vision, how can they leave their stamp on the franchise? The differences in design will allow us to debate endlessly as to why things looked the way they did and that's part of the fun. We come up with the backstory until some more official explanation comes along. Like midi-chlorians!

There is definitely an inheritance of host attributes as Alien3 established, there is definitely a color difference as Alien3 and Alien4 established,and there is definitely a clear dome difference as Aliens established. For me the best fan explantion I read as to why the ALIENS warriors do not have domes is that like some insects, they shed them. The reasoning behind this is that the ALIENS warriors are the only ones we've seen in the movie series that are more than several days old. Several weeks in fact. All the other Aliens in the movie series have been newly chestburstered and are fresh out of the host.

 

[dekadentdave]

Well I don't buy that. The ALIENS Aliens obviously have an exoskeletal skull while the Giger Alien and the AVP Aliens clearly have a visible membrane under the translucent dome. Obviously for the Grid Alien, his dome was the only thing that saved his life when the Celtic Predator sliced it up. I'm thinking he could have been a juvenile warrior like the Predators were while the Aliens warriors were "royal" servants of the Queen's hive therefore their craniums evolved into an exoskeletal skull rather than a translucent dome.

 

[Wor-Gar]

We come up with the backstory until some more official explanation comes along. Like midi-chlorians!

Yes, thank god for the midichlorian explanation because I was really confused about the Force until then...

 

[ambac]

Well I don't buy that. The ALIENS Aliens obviously have an exoskeletal skull while the Giger Alien and the AVP Aliens clearly have a visible membrane under the translucent dome. Obviously for the Grid Alien, his dome was the only thing that saved his life when the Celtic Predator sliced it up. I'm thinking he could have been a juvenile warrior like the Predators were while the Aliens warriors were "royal" servants of the Queen's hive therefore their craniums evolved into an exoskeletal skull rather than a translucent dome.

Certainly not trying to dissuade you from your beliefs Decadentdave, but you do realize that aside from color and the missing skull eye sockets, the detail on the ALIENS head is exactly the same as the ALIEN head under the dome?

Ok, maybe I'm trying a little....Like I said, it was just a fan explanation I liked.

 

[gdb]

I'm disappointed that they didn't give Grid Alien a stump tail. But I am so glad they got the color right. McFarlane and the Hot Toys Snap-Kits all got the color wrong -- brown.

I gotta get one for the Celtic to fight. I only wish they made a variation of the Celtic with his sliced up helmet to make the scene complete.